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View Full Version : What did you do to your Blade 450X today?


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DesJardins
03-03-2012, 05:26 PM
Thread started
:thumbup:

mtuccio
03-03-2012, 07:13 PM
I mounted Align 325D Carbons and White Pro Tail Blades just because I wanted to get everyone going. Then I flew 2 packs in 20+ mph gusting winds saying to myself "this really isn't a good idea". I managed to keep it in one piece and was quite suprised as to how crisp and solid the tail was given the cheap tail servo....:thumbup:

dribbe
03-03-2012, 07:39 PM
Hi.
One tip to all. Use quality FBL blades. The 450x is powerful.
The blades are an important part of the FBL system. The wrong type/CG could really cause issues. The stock blades are carefully matched.

Have fun,
David

Being
03-03-2012, 09:35 PM
Hi.
One tip to all. Use quality FBL blades. The 450x is powerful.
The blades are an important part of the FBL system. The wrong type/CG could really cause issues. The stock blades are carefully matched.

Have fun,
DavidDo you have a recommendation as to which blades to use with the B450 3D? The stock woodies seem to be the only ones that fit and they suck as far as quality goes. The CF blades don't fit the plastic grips or the aluminum grips. :roll:

DesJardins
03-03-2012, 09:37 PM
Do you have a recommendation as to which blades to use with the B450 3D? The stock woodies seem to be the only ones that fit and they suck as far as quality goes. The CF blades don't fit the plastic grips or the aluminum grips. :roll:

If you want quality CF's go Thunder Power as they come with perfect shims.

Back on topic, let's see & hear about these 450X's with goodies !

ShaneJourdan
03-03-2012, 10:18 PM
I mounted Align 325D Carbons and White Pro Tail Blades just because I wanted to get everyone going. Then I flew 2 packs in 20+ mph gusting winds saying to myself "this really isn't a good idea". I managed to keep it in one piece and was quite suprised as to how crisp and solid the tail was given the cheap tail servo....:thumbup:

Hey just a heads up, that tail servo is actual extremely good, check the specs. It inexpensive but hard to beat. I actually put HS 5065MG on cyclic and left the DS76T on tail cause it that good. I do have a spare set of gears for it just in case.

FuntanaS
03-03-2012, 10:36 PM
Hey just a heads up, that tail servo is actual extremely good, check the specs. It inexpensive but hard to beat. I actually put HS 5065MG on cyclic and left the DS76T on tail cause it that good. I do have a spare set of gears for it just in case.

+1

It doesn't even seem real how fast the thing is! :D

Being
03-03-2012, 11:18 PM
The stock tail servo doesn't compare to the HSG-5084 when it comes to piro speed and hold when you let go of the stick. It's specs are faster but that's all that's faster about it. Of course this needs to be taken in context with the gyro which I'm basing my claims on, the stock G210.

FuntanaS
03-03-2012, 11:27 PM
The stock tail servo doesn't compare to the HSG-5084 when it comes to piro speed and hold when you let go of the stick. It's specs are faster but that's all that's faster about it. Of course this needs to be taken in context with the gyro which I'm basing my claims on, the stock G210.

The stock servo has a speed of 0.03 sec/60 degrees while the HSG-5084 has a speed of 0.07

The stock servo weighs 7.6 grams while the HSG-5084 weighs 21.9 grams. Almost three times as much.

The stock servo costs $18.99 while the HSG-5084 costs $39.99

The stock servo has 11 ounces of torque while the HSG-5084 has 21.


The stock servos works just fine in this heli. Look at the promo videos. If you guys want to spend the money to upgrade to heavier more expensive servos be my guest but unless you are looking for crash durability there is no need to.

Just my opinion.

David Eichstedt
03-03-2012, 11:34 PM
Do you have a recommendation as to which blades to use with the B450 3D? The stock woodies seem to be the only ones that fit and they suck as far as quality goes. The CF blades don't fit the plastic grips or the aluminum grips. :roll:

....

Being
03-03-2012, 11:40 PM
The stock servo has a speed of 0.03 sec/60 degrees while the HSG-5084 has a speed of 0.07
The stock servo has 11 ounces of torque while the HSG-5084 has 21.I guess I could rest my case on this note... servo speed isn't as important as torque. I have a B450 all stock and a B450 with the Hitec tail servo. The Hitec heli piros are much faster with crisper holds when you let go of the stick than the stock servo.

spykez
03-04-2012, 04:51 AM
....

I don't know how to interpret that ellipse.

Maybe I am misinterpreting it but that sort of looks like a smart comment. Apologies in advance if it isn't but it seems that way. And to be honest, it galls me.

So... here goes...

<rant>
When I ordered my first pair of flybarred CFs, I though I'd go Blade, yes. They made this heli, they should fit. I ordered them. They arrived. They didnt' fit. I found out I had to shim the darn things. I was lucky I had a HW kit at the time.

Mikel later comes out and apologises - and promises the blades will now ship with shims. Good on him. I liked that. Honesty, admitting a mistake.

However...

I called our our sole appointed blade distributor after that - you know who they are or can find out, Dave. As of prior to the new year they still were not shipping them with shims. I understand our kiwi buddy 2cants recently fond out those CF's in our region are still not shipping with shims. I don't know how the rest of you stateside are doing.

Do you realize your blades are not competive compared to aligns we can get for less than half the price and are arguably better balanced from the word go? Do you realize for about 10 bucks more, I get SABs?

Then... we have the aluminium tail bling stuff... i.e. the aluminium tail case bling stuff that don't fit the stock plastic tail. Did anyone tell us that was the case? No.. ho.. ho.. we gotta get the CF tails. What about the CF horizontal stabilisers? Or look.. if we got the formal blade CF tail/stabilisers, and had stock plastic mounts, what then? Did ANY of you tell us about the incompatibility?

Now the aluminium grips. What's the deal with that? What blades are actually supposed to go in there? I do not believe Being is asking a silly question... with what we know about the aluminium tail bling.... if he says the stock woodies don't fit them I believe him. they are either poorly machined out of tolerance or they are machined instead for the official blade CF's and nobody told us about it.

Did you ever THINK of telling us about these things?

Maybe you did make an announcement but frankly all I recall is Mikel telling us about the shims. Good on him for that - I really respect him.

Don't get me wrong, you guys make some great stuff. mCP X is one ground breaking heli. I'm looking forward to your 300 as well. May give the T-Rex 250 and gaui's something possibly to worry about. I'm waiting to see what your 500 is going to be like.

But I don't know how to interpret that ellipse... Could be construed as smart or condescending or showing a distinct lack of respect for your customers.

Just my interpretation. I apologise if it's wrong. But how else could one interpret it? If Being can't tell us what fits in those Al grips I'd like to know what you think does....

You're lucky you've got guys like James, Mikel and Dave (Ribbe) here. Honestly, that was uncalled for.
</rant>

STAZZ
03-04-2012, 06:40 AM
I guess I could rest my case on this note... servo speed isn't as important as torque. I have a B450 all stock and a B450 with the Hitec tail servo. The Hitec heli piros are much faster with crisper holds when you let go of the stick than the stock servo.
When we are talking about tail servo, then speed is more important than torque! That's why there actually high speed (for rudder) and high torque (for cyclic) servos on the market. In any case, stock servo is pretty good untill you load it very hard. My flying skills just don't let me load it up to it's limit. :) However, I went for MKS 95i which is the best you can buy today. I can't tell that it was worth doing right now, maybe in future, but still not sure! I could have five stock servos for that money.:face

DesJardins
03-04-2012, 07:06 AM
So... What has everyone else done to their 450X's?
:peace

spykez
03-04-2012, 07:11 AM
Honestly, at my level of flying I can't tell the difference between my 5084 blade B450 tail and my DS95i on my protos mini. They're both solid on v-bars. Maybe when my flying is more demanding I may notice the difference.

The likelihood is that I'd find the same with a DS76T but I haven't flown these in months... I think they are more fragile and by some accounts here, if they are to be believed, somewhat inconsistent in the quality. I dunno. I'm sure you'll find some guys somewhere out there on some other forum griping about 5084's or DS95i's as well I guess. But I think you can guess which servos I'd choose to prefer to depend on.

mtuccio
03-04-2012, 09:39 AM
Hi.
One tip to all. Use quality FBL blades. The 450x is powerful.
The blades are an important part of the FBL system. The wrong type/CG could really cause issues. The stock blades are carefully matched.

Have fun,
David

David,




No disrespect was intended in my post and I will explain why I didn't fly the blades that came with the kits:

I'm in NY state and the weather is such that the skys are grey right now so the black blades have a tendency to disappear.
The field that I'm flying at right now is a harvested Corn field which is very dark in color and again the blades tend to disappear closer to the ground.
The surrounding of the field are mountains which are dark grey in color and again make the blades disappear.
This being said I would like to comment to the others that read this:

The stock blades are very well matched as David has described. Mine were within a 0.1 grams in weight and the CG of both blades was spot on.
The stock blades are a true 325mm blade measuring from hole to tip where the Aligns that I was flying are a 315mm Blade.
In regards to your comment on "The 450x is powerful"

The 450 X is OK on power it has some decent puch but not "powerful" as you have stated. I understand that our definitions of this could be different but when I think of powerful in a 450 I tend to think about the Scorpion 2221-8 or the Align 450MX. These motors are powerful and not even in the same category as the 440 motor supplied on the 450 X.
The headspeed is much better than the B400 that I had sometime ago but also still not that high in todays 450 market. I typically run 3200-3600rpm on my 450 heads today and I'm certain that the 450 X is not getting to this. Can you tell me what the headspeed of the 450 X is at 0 degrees pitch and at the extremes running just a flat 100% throttle curve? Also, can you give me the calculated calculated draws under these conditions? (I planned on putting a tach on it today but the weather doesn't look like it is going to cooperate right now.)
Just wanted to clear this up and please let me know on the headspeed and current draws...:thumbup:

PS - I've been flying the BeastX controller since the v2 was released and have tons of experience with it on machines ranging from 250 to 700+ in size. I understand exactly what settings and pot positions need to change from when I change blades from Align, Edge, and CY's so I think I could say that I'm qualified when it comes to this. I just wanted you personally to understand my level of understanding in regards to this....I didn't know exactly how to read into what you above but I meant no disrrespect by changing the baldes over to Align.....Peace

InFocus
03-04-2012, 10:02 AM
I don't think he was implying that you were using the wrong blades, nor questioning your decision to run different blades, or your understanding of how beastx works.

I took his post as a reminder to those new to FBL, that they tested and tuned the 450X and beastx with FBL blades, (ie, the CG is closer to the leading edge of the blades).

If someone would choose to run non fbl blade, or poor quality blades that the heli may not act as good as it does in all stock form.

MikelG
03-04-2012, 11:33 AM
David,




No disrespect was intended in my post and I will explain why I didn't fly the blades that came with the kits:

I'm in NY state and the weather is such that the skys are grey right now so the black blades have a tendency to disappear.
The field that I'm flying at right now is a harvested Corn field which is very dark in color and again the blades tend to disappear closer to the ground.
The surrounding of the field are mountains which are dark grey in color and again make the blades disappear.

This being said I would like to comment to the others that read this:

The stock blades are very well matched as David has described. Mine were within a 0.1 grams in weight and the CG of both blades was spot on.
The stock blades are a true 325mm blade measuring from hole to tip where the Aligns that I was flying are a 315mm Blade.

In regards to your comment on "The 450x is powerful"

The 450 X is OK on power it has some decent puch but not "powerful" as you have stated. I understand that our definitions of this could be different but when I think of powerful in a 450 I tend to think about the Scorpion 2221-8 or the Align 450MX. These motors are powerful and not even in the same category as the 440 motor supplied on the 450 X.
The headspeed is much better than the B400 that I had sometime ago but also still not that high in todays 450 market. I typically run 3200-3600rpm on my 450 heads today and I'm certain that the 450 X is not getting to this. Can you tell me what the headspeed of the 450 X is at 0 degrees pitch and at the extremes running just a flat 100% throttle curve? Also, can you give me the calculated calculated draws under these conditions? (I planned on putting a tach on it today but the weather doesn't look like it is going to cooperate right now.)

Just wanted to clear this up and please let me know on the headspeed and current draws...:thumbup:

PS - I've been flying the BeastX controller since the v2 was released and have tons of experience with it on machines ranging from 250 to 700+ in size. I understand exactly what settings and pot positions need to change from when I change blades from Align, Edge, and CY's so I think I could say that I'm qualified when it comes to this. I just wanted you personally to understand my level of understanding in regards to this....I didn't know exactly how to read into what you above but I meant no disrrespect by changing the baldes over to Align.....Peace


Hi,

Let me see if I can answer a few questions here...

As far as the power of the 450 X, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I will not argue that the other motors you have mentioned are more powerful than the 440H motor, BUT, you need to account for the fact that the stock 450 X is about 100 grams lighter than your typical 450 RTF. For a helicopter of this size, this is VERY significant.

As far as headspeed, again, you'll be happy to know, at 0 pitch, fresh pack, it's turning 3600. When it reaches the flat part of the battery curve, it's between 3100-3300, which is typical for 450 helicopters.

You have a helicopter that is 100 grams lighter, and turning the same headspeed as other 450s. Whereas other 450s run 14 degrees of pitch, I programmed the 450 X for only 12. Why? Fly it and you'll see that any more is truly unnecessary. In terms of raw power, yes other machines are more powerful. But in terms of the performance of the package, the 450 X will hang with the best of them and will feel much lighter than the rest of them (lighter disc loading). The lighter disc loading, combined with lower overall pitch also means longer flight times compared to other 450s. You can get a SOLID 4 minute flight of all out banging the sticks with the stock E-flite 2200mAh 30C pack.

Also, I recommend that users use the included E-flite pack. It is lighter than most other batteries and using heavier batteries will negate the lower weight benefit the 450 X offers.

Hope this helps.

M

ShaneJourdan
03-04-2012, 12:17 PM
Hi,

Let me see if I can answer a few questions here...

As far as the power of the 450 X, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I will not argue that the other motors you have mentioned are more powerful than the 440H motor, BUT, you need to account for the fact that the stock 450 X is about 100 grams lighter than your typical 450 RTF. For a helicopter of this size, this is VERY significant.

As far as headspeed, again, you'll be happy to know, at 0 pitch, fresh pack, it's turning 3600. When it reaches the flat part of the battery curve, it's between 3100-3300, which is typical for 450 helicopters.

You have a helicopter that is 100 grams lighter, and turning the same headspeed as other 450s. Whereas other 450s run 14 degrees of pitch, I programmed the 450 X for only 12. Why? Fly it and you'll see that any more is truly unnecessary. In terms of raw power, yes other machines are more powerful. But in terms of the performance of the package, the 450 X will hang with the best of them and will feel much lighter than the rest of them (lighter disc loading). The lighter disc loading, combined with lower overall pitch also means longer flight times compared to other 450s. You can get a SOLID 4 minute flight of all out banging the sticks with the stock E-flite 2200mAh 30C pack.

Also, I recommend that users use the included E-flite pack. It is lighter than most other batteries and using heavier batteries will negate the lower weight benefit the 450 X offers.

Hope this helps.

M

Couldn't have been better said.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wbefield
03-04-2012, 12:19 PM
Was very windy here today, but got a few flights in.. Def handles the wind better with the Tarot FBL head and ZYX.

I ordered a 4400KV scorpion motor today to put on my B450.
Got a YGE 60A esc that needs the capacitors replaced that I will use on it.

This thing is gonna be wicked fast!

searching the classifieds here for some aluminum tail blade grips to put on it as I don't think the stock plastic will be able to handle that kind of rpm.

:flamedevil

EDIT: Oops. I put this in the wrong thread, however, it is kind of a B450X...... B450ZYX :)

ShaneJourdan
03-04-2012, 12:46 PM
Ordered the BeastX USB tool stick and adapter so I can download my setting to a file and not have to use the awkward TX/UI.

I can then also update to the latest firmware when needed then re-apply Horizons factory settings and go from there. :thumbup:

David Eichstedt
03-04-2012, 02:48 PM
I don't know how to interpret that ellipse.

Maybe I am misinterpreting it

Whoa! Calm down - there's nothing to interpret here. I saw the comment from Being about stock wood blades, so my post was originally a correction that the 450X comes with CF blades, that he should give them a shot, and that if we're out of stock when he needs a replacement pair we're bringing in a bunch of the Thunder Powers. Then, just after posting I noticed that his question was about the 450 3D, not the 450X. I had been thrown off because this is a 450X thread, not a 450 3D thread. So I immediately edited my post to remove the unhelpful (for Being, anyway) information.

No snarkiness intended, just a failure to read the original question.

mtuccio
03-04-2012, 04:29 PM
Hi,

Let me see if I can answer a few questions here...

As far as the power of the 450 X, I think you will be pleasantly surprised. I will not argue that the other motors you have mentioned are more powerful than the 440H motor, BUT, you need to account for the fact that the stock 450 X is about 100 grams lighter than your typical 450 RTF. For a helicopter of this size, this is VERY significant.

As far as headspeed, again, you'll be happy to know, at 0 pitch, fresh pack, it's turning 3600. When it reaches the flat part of the battery curve, it's between 3100-3300, which is typical for 450 helicopters.

You have a helicopter that is 100 grams lighter, and turning the same headspeed as other 450s. Whereas other 450s run 14 degrees of pitch, I programmed the 450 X for only 12. Why? Fly it and you'll see that any more is truly unnecessary. In terms of raw power, yes other machines are more powerful. But in terms of the performance of the package, the 450 X will hang with the best of them and will feel much lighter than the rest of them (lighter disc loading). The lighter disc loading, combined with lower overall pitch also means longer flight times compared to other 450s. You can get a SOLID 4 minute flight of all out banging the sticks with the stock E-flite 2200mAh 30C pack.

Also, I recommend that users use the included E-flite pack. It is lighter than most other batteries and using heavier batteries will negate the lower weight benefit the 450 X offers.

Hope this helps.

M

Thanks for the info...I'm glad to hear the head speed is as high as you say because it just doesn't sound that way when it is flying (I didn't get a chance to tach it today because the weather has been pretty bad).

I totally agree with you in regards to the 450 X will hang with the other helis on the market today.

In regards to the motor power thing I knew it was just a different interpretation. We are on the same page here and I agree that the 100 grams is a signifigant factor that needs to be considered. I do have one 450 that has a more reactive punch than the 450 X but it's a pretty extreme setup. It's also outfitted with a v3 BeastX so it is a pretty good machine to compare the 450 X. The battery weight thing is a good thing to point out and something for many to consider (I'm running Turnigy nano-tech 45-90C packs because they are only 10 grams heavier than the stock battery and can deliver gobs of power for a fraction of the price.......).

Thanks for all the info....

It really is a great heli....:thumbup:

spykez
03-05-2012, 01:52 AM
Whoa! Calm down - there's nothing to interpret here. I saw the comment from Being about stock wood blades, so my post was originally a correction that the 450X comes with CF blades, that he should give them a shot, and that if we're out of stock when he needs a replacement pair we're bringing in a bunch of the Thunder Powers. Then, just after posting I noticed that his question was about the 450 3D, not the 450X. I had been thrown off because this is a 450X thread, not a 450 3D thread. So I immediately edited my post to remove the unhelpful (for Being, anyway) information.

No snarkiness intended, just a failure to read the original question.

My sincere apologies, as stated then. It did seem a bit abrupt to me.

In any case, what is the deal with the Al grips? Both for the flybarred and flybarless?

I ask as it seems, at least from the 4503D flybarred, that a number of aluminium and/or CF hop up parts introduced compatibility issues with bone stock parts. And I will say it is less than optimal that this was not clearly documented or indicated.

2cants
03-05-2012, 04:11 AM
In any case, what is the deal with the Al grips? Both for the flybarred and flybarless?
.

+1

I've pre-ordered the 450X. As my avatar says - I really do have a ton of spares for the 450, which is why I didn't get the Trex with 3GX, as to Blade's credit there is a LOT of parts crossover.

So, couple of question for Dave or Mike...

1. Does the Blade 450X grips suit (i.e. no shims) the Blade CF rotors? (I find installing shims to be a pain in the @rse. )

2. Why doesn't the Alloy grips have the nut retainer like the plastic one has?

I guess the alloy tail case needs the CF accessories to keep the weight down???