Mini CP was a little disappointment!

[Picofly]

I bought a Mini CP because people says it flies soooo much better than Genius.

IMHO, it doesn't. The Mini's RX just has loads of cyclic expo as factory default and that creates an illusion of more stable hover http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

At the begining I was trying to fly my Mini CP with the same settings as my Genius but +30% ail & ele expo I used with Genius was way too much for the Mini. I removed the expo alltoghether and the heli was feeling much better. Now I use -20% negative expo instead and the Mini flies very much like my Genius. So my guess is that Walkera made a cheap and nasty trick and programmed +50% expo into Mini's RX to make it more stable for beginners :D.

I have to admit that tail of the Mini holds better than tail of the Genius did as stock. But then, I have an extended (140 mm) tail boom in my Genius and it is silky smooth and rock solid in 3D. I was hoping that Walkera would improve the piro compensation but that is not the case. The poor piro compensation has been the only major drawback in the the flight characteristics of my Genius. In this aspect, the Mini isn't any better.

So far the only major improvement I have found in my Mini CP is the removable landing gear. Well, it is better than nothing. Based on all the hype around the Mini I was just expecting something more...

[pmerritt]

hey pico, could you conduct an experiment for me please? I'd like you to report how the Genius flies with the MiniCP blades since they are narrower...just curious.

[zvok]

I bought a Mini CP because people says it flies soooo much better than Genius.

IMHO, it doesn't. The Mini's RX just has loads of cyclic expo as factory default and that creates an illusion of more stable hover http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

At the begining I was trying to fly my Mini CP with the same settings as my Genius but +30% ail & ele expo I used with Genius was way too much for the Mini. I removed the expo alltoghether and the heli was feeling much better. Now I use -20% negative expo instead and the Mini flies very much like my Genius. So my guess is that Walkera made a cheap and nasty trick and programmed +50% expo into Mini's RX to make it more stable for beginners :D.

I have to admit that tail of the Mini holds better than tail of the Genius did as stock. But then, I have an extended (140 mm) tail boom in my Genius and it is silky smooth and rock solid in 3D. I was hoping that Walkera would improve the piro compensation but that is not the case. The poor piro compensation has been the only major drawback in the the flight characteristics of my Genius. In this aspect, the Mini isn't any better.

So far the only major improvement I have found in my Mini CP is the removable landing gear. Well, it is better than nothing. Based on all the hype around the Mini I was just expecting something more...

Thanks for this review.

Have you tried to increase the tail blade pitch?

[5488fletcher]

I dont notice a huge difference either . But im still glad i bought it but some would say im addicted ! I had a genius first , than a v120d02s and than a mini cp . These walkeras are great for advancing your flight .

[bytemuncher]

I think the mini is definitely more stable. Not immensely different, but I like the way it flies. I also like expo with my genius, but don't need it with the mini.

I think if Walkera just programmed in extra expo people like dkfuji, manuel campos, indoorheli, etc. wouldn't be fans of this heli (none of them are even close to beginners).

Picofly, you've flown your genius a lot and have the settings, mods, etc. all dialed in. Give the mini some time, get to know it, and I think it will grow on you.

[jonbailie]

I flew them back to back and thought the mini cp was overall more stable than my genius. It just handled a little 'flattter' than the genius... If that makes sense. Tail holding was ok, but then again, it's pretty decent on my stock genius cp.

Granted, the mini isn't a huge improvement over the genius, but is improved nonetheless. The genius was already a great little flier, and the mini makes it just a little better. K

I still want a mini, though, just because :) It sucks that I have to buy a devo though :(

[Hamish.NYC]

I did a search for expo to find out what it is but didn't find anything. Is anyone in a professorial mood to give me the quick 101?

[jonbailie]

Basically, when you add expo, it will increase the sensitivity of the cyclic controls around the mid-stick point. For example, let's say you add elevator and aileron expo to your model. Now when you move the elevator and aileron controls, it will take much less movement of your fingers to get the elev and aile to move a certain distance. This doesn't change the overall travel of the servo, it just 'condenses' some of that travel to the mid stick point.

So, you move your finger a little, the servos move a lot. It's just more sensitive. You don't want too much expo, or else it will be hard to hover steadily. Youll have too much servo movement with very little stick input.

I hope this makes sense :)

[Heli-opolis]

Another way to look at it, positive expo reduces sensitivity around the center point while negative expo increases sensitivity.

In either case though, one is 'adding' expo, the question is how much and in what direction.

Positive expo can help in situations where adjusting, for example, the aileron one has a tendency to without meaning to move the stick in the elevator direction as well, make it so that the small movement in the aileron direction is almost ignored. At the same time though if you move the aileron past the 'dead spot' reaction to stick movement is almost normal

Negative expo can be added if one wants a quicker response with less stick movement.

One can also, assuming the TX supports it, have more or less expo in one direction than the other including even having positive expo in one with negative in the other.

In older and even many current TXs, only positive expo was/is available but with computer/digital TX's, it is just a formula that the TX executes so negative is as easily to do as positive.

On TX's that have graphs to display the various curves like the Devo-6, 8 and 12, as well as the 'S' (telemetry) versions, it is easier to see the affects of the use of expo.

[Hamish.NYC]

My Devo 8s has been sitting there for weeks looking like an alien artifact. I'm coming from a 2403 so all the switches and curve settings have yet to be explored. My mini cp RX RMA should arrive tomorrow and then i can begin to play "guess which switch will crash it into the ceiling". Thanks for the explanation.

[Heli-opolis]

... "guess which switch will crash it into the ceiling". ...

:lol:

One can easily do that with the IU modes because with a flip of a switch, the throtte and/or pitch can be changed significantly.

What I do to avoid that is to set the high side, stick > 50%, of the IU to be the same as the normal flight mode and the low stick side to be the mirror image for throttle and inverse for pitch.

That way as you switch from normal to idle up while non-inverted, everything stays the same so there are no surprises.

I often have to make compromises, such as having a higher throttle in normal mode than I might ordinarily so that it matches a higher throttle for IU mode but the situation is rare when a lower head speed is preferable to a higher one.

On the Mini, if you leave the Mini-CP model stored in the TX at its stock settings, the normal and IU pitch curves are totally different than the normal mode while the throttle curve is only a little different. The first thing I did was to modify the normal curves to be, on the high stick side, to be the same as the first IU mode's curves and then on the second IU mode, just add higher throttle.

One special note, in the stock normal mode there is quite a bit of negative pitch on the low stick side, which is supposed to help one landing in high wind but I found that setting more likely to slam the poor thing into the ground rather than be of great benefit so in normal mode, my pitch curve is flat at 0% on tht low stick side.

I have other differences between the various modes as well, dual rates, expo, gyro etc. but the throttle and pitch curves are what are most likely to introduce one's heli into the ceiling, or floor.

[bytemuncher]

My Devo 8s has been sitting there for weeks looking like an alien artifact. I'm coming from a 2403 so all the switches and curve settings have yet to be explored. My mini cp RX RMA should arrive tomorrow and then i can begin to play "guess which switch will crash it into the ceiling". Thanks for the explanation.

If you haven't already watch the videos here: http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=347970 . The devo 6 interface is pretty much the same as the 8(s).

[Picofly]

I bought a Mini CP because people says it flies soooo much better than Genius.

IMHO, it doesn't. The Mini's RX just has loads of cyclic expo as factory default and that creates an illusion of more stable hover http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif.

At the begining I was trying to fly my Mini CP with the same settings as my Genius but +30% ail & ele expo I used with Genius was way too much for the Mini. I removed the expo alltoghether and the heli was feeling much better. Now I use -20% negative expo instead and the Mini flies very much like my Genius. So my guess is that Walkera made a cheap and nasty trick and programmed +50% expo into Mini's RX to make it more stable for beginners :D.

I think I got it now :thumbup:.

It seems that the potentiometer in the RX will affect on cyclic expo. The pot was at 12 O'Clock as factory default. I tuned it down to 9 O'Clock and that made the things better. At the moment I am flying my Mini with zero expo and cylic controls feel almost linear now.

Vast amount of cyclic expo made hovering and flipping the heli almost too easy but banked turns and funnels were tricky to perfrom because cyclic controls were too senseless around the middle stick and extremely sensitive near the extreme ends and the heli tilted easily when it reached 45 degrees angle. Now it is more flyable in genereal.

Pmerrit - I haven't tried to fly my Genius with Mini's blades yet because at the moment I have only one C05 motor and I have moved it to my Mini. I will get a another motor next week and try Mini's blades on Genius then.

[pmerritt]

thanks in advance Pico.

[zvok]

[QUOTE=Picofly;3724693]I think I got it now :thumbup:.

It seems that the potentiometer in the RX will affect on cyclic expo. The pot was at 12 O'Clock as factory default. I tuned it down to 9 O'Clock and that made the things better. At the moment I am flying my Mini with zero expo and cylic controls feel almost linear now.

Vast amount of cyclic expo made hovering and flipping the heli almost too easy but banked turns and funnels were tricky to perfrom because cyclic controls were too senseless around the middle stick and extremely sensitive near the extreme ends and the heli tilted easily when it reached 45 degrees angle. Now it is more flyable in genereal.

Pmerrit - I haven't tried to fly my Genius with Mini's blades yet because at the moment I have only one C05 motor and I have moved it to my Mini. I will get a another motor next week and try Mini's blades on Genius then.[/QUOTE

Picofly,

Can you be more specific with what you have changed in the Rx?

After the change do you now think that MCP is much better than the GCP or one can tune the GCP Rx and Tx to get similar results?

Thanks

[Picofly]

I have been testing all kind of settings but I still think that my Genius fies in more predictable manner than my Mini CP. No matter what settings I dial in, it is difficult to get cyclic controls linear. There is still lots of expo on aileron & elevator and I don't manage to get rid of it. It makes funnels especially tricky to fly. With my Genius I am able to fly smooth and tight funnels to any direction (inverted, tail-in, nose-in) but Mini CP tends to tilt when it reaches 45 degree angle.

Here is the first video of my Mini. I was trying to fly inverted tail-in funnel near the end of the video but the result was ugly because the heli does not want to stay in 45 degrees angle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9bMhC3YVWA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymhNpYltiMg

[bytemuncher]

Hi picofly, sorry to hear you're not liking the mini that much. I was wondering, are you sure it's the electronics/software that is causing the problem? Do you think it could be the weight distribution that is causing the different flight characteristics?

The genius has everything all spread out (battery at front, servos at back, etc.), so may be better suited for angled maneuvers (e.g. funnels), but not so suited for fast flipping.

On the other hand, the mini has everything crammed around and under the center shaft, so it may be better suited for faster flipping, more stable hover and inverted hover, etc...but not so good for angled maneuvers.

I don't know, just a thought.

If it is software then it would be very interesting if we could get access to the board and alter these settings (e.g. by using the update ports on the board).

[Picofly]

I tested my Genius with Mini's main blades and vice versa but I didn't notice any significant difference.

I has been two weeks since I flied my Genius last time and I didn´t remember how sensitive the cyclic controls were. My heli was all over the place for the first 30 seconds. It is amazing how extremely stable Mini CP feels with the same TX settings!

Still, I have to say that I prefer the way by Genius behaves.

[Heli-opolis]

Cool beans! New toys!

I know you are going to have a blast with your Mini and Devo once you get to play with them for a while.

The Mini being as survivable as it is means you can really get to know all the functions of the TX without having to worry too much about catastrophic Oops's.

One thing though, I always keep two copies of a given model, 'last known good' and current 'sand box'. That way if I get so far lost that I can't figure out how to get back, I zap the sand-box, copy the last-known-good one again and start playing again.

When I do get a sand-box I think I will like for a while, I zap the last-known-good and replace it.

That said, other than the factory 'Normal' pitch curve, which I hate and so modified to more closely match the Idle up mode so that transitions aren't so abrupt, I find that most of my edits often end up pretty close to the original factory settings.

Anyhoo, prepare to have fun because I can pretty much guarantee that you will! ;)

[Intheway]

deleted

[Picofly]

I made a brief comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGyRqBhpWy0

[mescalinedream]

try MAnnys settings. Then give the funnels a go and reply back. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1570630&page=35#post20571242

[Heli-opolis]

At that level of flying, settings don't make a whole lot of difference.

The Mini just has too much of its weight directly under the mast.

[Picofly]

try MAnnys settings. Then give the funnels a go and reply back. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1570630&page=35#post20571242

My settings are very close to those of Manny's. The only difference is that my Aileron & Elevator Dual Rate is 100%.

The more I try the more it looks to me that the broblem is the RX firmware. It is almost like an on / off switch: the heli wants to hover or flip - and nothing between. Maybe there is different version of firmware in Manny's heli - who knows?

I don''t see myself flying Mini CP a lot in the future unless Walkera relases an firmware update.

[mescalinedream]

You could try the rx adj screw. Give it a shot.