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AnTi Taco
03-04-2012, 03:57 PM
We im sure some of u seen my thread about how i was hating my tail on my 6hv to the point of where i used after market tail grips..but today i took both my 6hv out and took apart the tails to compare them cause on my original 6hv my tail issues were not that big of a deal....so i was messing around on my 6hv with the bad tail and i noticed something new...i have binding of the tail hinge ( see link) its very rough its sticking like crazy..my other 6hv its like butter..so im thinking that might be the issue a bad HINGE.....but before i by a new one any ideas how to make it nice and smooth? i think u have to tap out the pin right to take it off? maybe the pin is slightly bent making it bind??


http://www.nankinhobby.com/Compass-Parts/Compass-3D-Plus/Tail-Hinge-With-Pin/prod_254.html
http://www.nankinhobby.com/images/uploads/compass%206hv%2010_8_2011/02-0230S(1).jpg

kachur779
03-04-2012, 06:31 PM
i think u need a 2mm punch and secure the boom good so i dont bounce around when tapin the pin out had to do that on my atom 550 with roll pins

AnTi Taco
03-04-2012, 06:47 PM
i think u need a 2mm punch and secure the boom good so i dont bounce around when tapin the pin out had to do that on my atom 550 with roll pins

cool got it out and i messed around with it and finally got the hinge nice and smooth and i also put longer balls on the blade grips so everything on the tail is like butter charging lipos now to do a test hover ..hopefully this cures all my stocl tail issues

AnTi Taco
03-04-2012, 07:55 PM
well im pissed man. just did a test hover and my tail sucks ass...i went over every part of the tail to make sure it was smooth as hell..i have no binding anywhere its buttery smooth it can't get any better...so ive come to two conclusions #1 its my skookum causing the issue....second i just have a defective tail blade grips..so im gunna do two things as alast resort before i stick to my after market tail witch i have a perfect tail with....first im gunna have my buddy take off his stock tail grips off his 6hv where it work ;;;going to put my tail blade grips on his heli...if his heli all of a sudden has a crappy tail i know i have a bad set of grips.......and if he doesn't have any issues then its my skookum....only think i can think of at this post....so will see i might just throw a vbar on this problem heli to see what happens also..well see


Edit: im taking skookum off right now and putting a vbar on it....i had no issues this bad with a vbar so will see what happens

Cullen Colapietro
03-04-2012, 08:43 PM
My 6HV had similar issues. I traced it to some other form of vibration. Tail would wag no matter the gyro, no matter the new plastic bits, etc. I could see the tail servo jumping back and forth w/ main blades off on bench once I hit a certain RPM. I never knew exactly what part/bearing was causing the vibes, I ended up wrecking and rebuilding the heli for FBL.

AnTi Taco
03-04-2012, 08:47 PM
My 6HV had similar issues. I traced it to some other form of vibration. Tail would wag no matter the gyro, no matter the new plastic bits, etc. I could see the tail servo jumping back and forth w/ main blades off on bench once I hit a certain RPM. I never knew exactly what part/bearing was causing the vibes, I ended up wrecking and rebuilding the heli for FBL.

hmmm i should try that take the main blades off and watch the tail servo and feel the heli for vibs thanks for the idea.

Ah Clem
03-04-2012, 08:53 PM
Anti Taco,

I am very interested in your progress on the tail.

For the record, I have a V-Bar on mine and the tail is very locked in. The Skookum should work as well, I would think. Jeff uses the Skookum units with great success, so you might contact him as well.

Please continue to keep us posted, sir.

Cullen Colapietro
03-04-2012, 08:55 PM
hmmm i should try that take the main blades off and watch the tail servo and feel the heli for vibs thanks for the idea.

Please use caution when spooling up on the bench as your tail blades would be spinning unless you take out the belt.

AnTi Taco
03-04-2012, 09:04 PM
Anti Taco,

I am very interested in your progress on the tail.

For the record, I have a V-Bar on mine and the tail is very locked in. The Skookum should work as well, I would think. Jeff uses the Skookum units with great success, so you might contact him as well.

Please continue to keep us posted, sir.


ive had tail issues with my skookum ever since ive owned it first it was on my velocity 50n had a little wag had to gel padding to fix it then i put it on my trex 500 and i had kinda the same issues im having on my 6hv....and now the 6hv and sk720 giving me probs so maybe i got something wrong with my unit..well see gunna start putting on vbar tonight and should be ready for testing tomorrow some time..

Larry227
03-04-2012, 09:05 PM
If you spoolup on the bench without mains just pop the linkage off the tail slider so the tail blades have no torque. You probably already know that though.

snaaakeey
03-05-2012, 11:37 AM
Do You run it govonered? My tail bounce was the govoner on my 120a hobbywing. I had quite long battery leads so I added extra capacitance to the ESC. Not only did the Gov work perfectly but the tail wag I just couldnt get rid of vanished!

AnTi Taco
03-05-2012, 12:01 PM
Do You run it govonered? My tail bounce was the govoner on my 120a hobbywing. I had quite long battery leads so I added extra capacitance to the ESC. Not only did the Gov work perfectly but the tail wag I just couldnt get rid of vanished!

yeah i run it Gov'd with my CC ice 80HV and i just us a small series harness to connect my lipos to ESC so i don't think its too long...right now im putting a vbar on to see if anything changes

SethKillian
03-05-2012, 04:24 PM
Anti-Taco, I am battling a wag myself right now, however i have seen progress while adjusting the tail gain in the Vbar software, I think that with the 5.2Pro upgrade you will find that you have a very detailed platform for adjusting every single aspect of the gains in the tail. i feel like im close, i did however just order a new pair of the stock tail blade grips, as i had found a small crack in one of mine. hopefully this will help.
I'm by no means an expert at Vbar tuning yet, but i'd be happy to help you
out if and where i can.

AnTi Taco
03-05-2012, 04:55 PM
Anti-Taco, I am battling a wag myself right now, however i have seen progress while adjusting the tail gain in the Vbar software, I think that with the 5.2Pro upgrade you will find that you have a very detailed platform for adjusting every single aspect of the gains in the tail. i feel like im close, i did however just order a new pair of the stock tail blade grips, as i had found a small crack in one of mine. hopefully this will help.
I'm by no means an expert at Vbar tuning yet, but i'd be happy to help you
out if and where i can.

I just finished insalling the full size blue line vbar on this 6hv it has PRO also...im pretty good good at setting up vbars as as far as having everything set up right that wont be a issue....i know in the past u have to get your vbar end points and the perfect ball spacing to get a good tail...ive had times when i set up my vbar tail and had there crazy annoying tail wags that i could not fix...but turns out if your mechanical gain is wrong is messes up your tail big time with the vbar..so thats the only annoying part to set up with vbar is building in your 3 degrees of mechanical pitch into the tail and then also getting your limits for left and right setup good in the software so u have the number pretty much close cause that effects the tail big time....so as of now my vbar setup is all done im just waiting for the wind to die down so i can test..if not ill do it in the morning...im prob gunna have to tweak the tail cause i did a quicky tail setup as far as my left and right servo limits..right now in the software i get full throw for left and right at 140 in the software for both ways...so im just gunna see how it is that before i get all anal with trying to get my tail numbers in vbar software like 110 & 116 or so no crazy big differences cause this really does cause tail issues if there numbers are messed up along with messed up mechanical gain so will soon see whats up.. gotta get all this working perfect by thursday cause its gunna be in the 70's on thursday :thumbup:

SethKillian
03-05-2012, 05:13 PM
Awesome man, i look forward to seein how it turns out for you, Thanks for bringing up the end points, because i know mine are pretty far off currently, so that reminded me that i really need to dial in the mechanical set up.
Best of luck to you and your heli!
Seth

AnTi Taco
03-05-2012, 05:17 PM
Awesome man, i look forward to seein how it turns out for you, Thanks for bringing up the end points, because i know mine are pretty far off currently, so that reminded me that i really need to dial in the mechanical set up.
Best of luck to you and your heli!
Seth

no prob the closer to 100 u get for each the better is what i got from reading a few threads over the last year or two what i like to so is like set my endpoints ahead of time to 100 for both and then mess around of the linkages and ball spacing to actully achieve that...but shotting for 100 on both is most like never gunna happen so i put like 110 and 110 then try to get that numbers to work..i find it easier doing this instead of messing with links and ball spacing first trying to get numbers..i just like to pick close enough numbers and then try to get those numbers to work...hope that makes sence

SethKillian
03-05-2012, 05:26 PM
that makes perfect sense, i know i have done it backwards more than once and wound up with a headache. thanks for the tip man :)

DominicD
03-05-2012, 05:32 PM
Mr.Taco I am sure you have already done so but i don't think anyone has asked yet so I will. You did move the ball in on the tail pitch slider from the factory setting ?

belcom
03-05-2012, 05:52 PM
+1 on Dom's suggestion and once done you may want to move the ball out on the servo.

Also, if you run Vbar set the values for Acceleration, P gain and I gain all to 75 and give it a go. Play with the main gain after that. Run the optimizer as well for a flight or two and then turn it off once it's perfect.

Make sure the tail servo type is set to BLS251 when using brushless 760us tail servo or 8900g if its 1520us... I am sure you know that but still.

Seth, also check your tail grip thrust bearings. Larger ID ball race goes first. You can take off the grips and just wiggle it. The ones on the inside are supposed to be loose.

Once dialed in, the tail works just fine.

AnTi Taco
03-05-2012, 06:43 PM
Mr.Taco I am sure you have already done so but i don't think anyone has asked yet so I will. You did move the ball in on the tail pitch slider from the factory setting ?

Yupperz I move around the ball.on the the tail case slider arm to get better numbers for.vbar software

+1 on Dom's suggestion and once done you may want to move the ball out on the servo.

Also, if you run Vbar set the values for Acceleration, P gain and I gain all to 75 and give it a go. Play with the main gain after that. Run the optimizer as well for a flight or two and then turn it off once it's perfect.

Make sure the tail servo type is set to BLS251 when using brushless 760us tail servo or 8900g if its 1520us... I am sure you know that but still.

Seth, also check your tail grip thrust bearings. Larger ID ball race goes first. You can take off the grips and just wiggle it. The ones on the inside are supposed to be loose.

Once dialed in, the tail works just fine.


Yeah I'm.running the outrage 9188 tail servo and have it set for servo type for futaba 251 Servo atm.....turned on optimizers..and bumped up tail acceleration to 70 and other tail setting from stock setting of 20 to 35 forget the name of that one...but it makes start and.stop of the tail more.Sharp just like pot 3 on a beast x......hoping to.do.a.test hover in the morning.....i.have a good feeling about the tail and vbar :-) since.my tail.is.so.perfect in.terms of no.binding.of any mind its like the tail pitch slider is floating on.air and i feel I should.have no.issues and.get a perfect tail unlike I.did with the sk720 i.really believe it had to be the sk720 causing issues last time.since.ever since I owned the sk720 I've had tail issues on a few heli and never like.the sk720.....so I.hope I'm right about the sk720 causing my issues last time around.......other.wise I.really am.lost..and ill.just end.up.using a quick UK tail blade.grips to get my perfect tail witch still.makes no.sence.to.me why with the sk720 I would.get a perfect tail.with my outrage fusion 50 tail.blade grips...any way I know.soon what's up....thanks.for.all.the help.guys with everything so.far.........

sarpilot
03-05-2012, 08:10 PM
Mr.Taco I am sure you have already done so but i don't think anyone has asked yet so I will. You did move the ball in on the tail pitch slider from the factory setting ?

Mr. Taco......

:rotf

Castel
03-06-2012, 08:13 PM
Seth, also check your tail grip thrust bearings. Larger ID ball race goes first. You can take off the grips and just wiggle it. The ones on the inside are supposed to be loose.

This. For the longest time I couldn't get rid of a small tail wag I had in my 6HV and SK-720 and was "learning" to live with it. I finally checked the bearings due to Belcom's suggestion and BINGO! 100% solid tail with no wags at all anymore.

AnTi Taco
03-06-2012, 09:21 PM
as far as the tail thrust bearings being in right out of the three indivisible peaces that make up the thrust bearing your saying the first half of the thrust bearing the ID is larger and wiggles around some on the tail hub then u put the center part of the thrust bearing on now that has the actual balls and u pack that one with grease...then u take the last part of the thrust bearing with the smaller ID on and thats it? thats how all my heli are even of the head blade grips is done the same as the tail....just wanted to double check and see if thats what u guys mean about haveing the tail bearing in the right way

Like this below use your imagination....

Large ID ----- Center with balls and pack with grease ----Smaller ID

DominicD
03-06-2012, 09:24 PM
Yup, the larger dia half is closer to the head, this allows the spindle to flap (which the dampers will fight).

AnTi Taco
03-07-2012, 06:43 PM
well put Vbar on and i still have a wag but in the past on my other 6hv with vbar i had a crash and rebuilt it and after the first flight after the crash i had a wag issue but it was due to my vbar software tail numbers where out of wack soon as i got better numbers it was fixed so i really hope thats the issue if not ive tried everything..so last resort is the quick uk tail upgrade..gotta be a issue im over looking cause on my first 6hv with vbar i didn't have these issues...but im tired of trying so many things im just gunna go for the quick fix as my next option....if this doesn't pan out.....so frustrated right now...