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CyprusFlyer
05-08-2012, 11:31 AM
Lol just posted in yr Motor thread, "accurately" is just a ruler resting on the boom with one hand and rock the blades with the other.

Groucho_
05-08-2012, 11:39 AM
My motor thread. What fun...

Luckily there's your thread here I can go to every now and then. Everything seems to be going nice and smooth here :thumbup:

CyprusFlyer
05-08-2012, 12:59 PM
Lets hope it continues that way, not many dramas this end (touch wood), a few niggles that a fresh day couldnt cure. Just talking to my flying buddy Eppi in Limassol, really commited to Saturday maiden, stop worrying and go fly it is, not permitted to let him have a go though, TDR's are like the majic ring in "Lord of the rings", "He wants it", "Got to have it" (Golum) etc.
Just a few odds and sods, HS calibration that will involve a bit more ground running and secure the motor cables better, last resort a bit of foam and velcro.

heli-lover
05-08-2012, 01:10 PM
There are three things I don't loan out: my babe, my bike or my bird. Some things just aren't the same after somebody else has a go at it. Best of luck this weekend. I'm curious to know why you opted not to use the JCooler's fan? With your setup I'd think that having that extra cooling would be nice to have. Very clean setup though, nicely done my friend.
:thumbup:

CyprusFlyer
05-08-2012, 01:26 PM
Thankyou for those kind words appreciated. The fan I do not believe is neccessary, plenty of guys flying this configuration in sunny Cyprus in Trex 700's, Synergy etc, all have glued on the standard little heat sink and no problems. Now this HS is much bigger than that, therefore I would argue that it may just make up for the lack of ventilation on the TDR. (Need a Naca at some stage, may just make one).

So I have J logger that records the temperatures, if it gets hot then I can easily stick the fan on!

Only thing is will have to find new screws long enough becouse I chopped them off lol.
Be good to know what the ball park is for Heli Jive PA Temp though.

heli-lover
05-08-2012, 01:31 PM
I tried to get in on a group order for a couple JLogs last month and have no idea when/if they'll show up at this point. Just something I noticed. With the canopy you can see it hugs pretty close so getting air in/out of there has been our challenge when putting in more powerful cans. Jan did a nice write-up about it in the manual of course. Nice that you have the logger now so you can see it exactly. I saw someplace what their cut-off temp was but I don't recall now. Big difference between internal temps and HS temps as I'm sure you know. Definitely looking forward to seeing a copy of the logs this weekend. :noteworthy

CyprusFlyer
05-08-2012, 02:40 PM
And a little preview, standard stuff buts it's MINE :Bow

Get some better photos soon, yes I forgot to put the break wheel on the head, sorted!

AcidDrink
05-08-2012, 03:56 PM
And a little preview, standard stuff buts it's MINE :Bow

Get some better photos soon, yes I forgot to put the break wheel on the head, sorted!
Looking great!

At the first sight I thought you had carbon fiber chairs.

jointer
05-08-2012, 04:57 PM
Jive shutdown temp is 100 deg celsius (value TempPA in JLog).
And the 10mm blade tip travel is normal with black bushings, Jan have 3-5mm because he means one side (up or down) of the blade.
At least he wrote so about 1.5 year ago, when i thought something is wrong...

CyprusFlyer
05-08-2012, 05:04 PM
Thanks Jointer, good stuff, thought we were OK with the blade see-saw. Dont do crazy 3D so dont expect a hot jive but will watch the logs for a while. Looking to do the NACA duct thing at some stage anyway.

CyprusFlyer
05-09-2012, 02:22 AM
Great stuff, more ground runs, this time teathered using about 15Kg of Lead off a telescope I made a few years ago. Keeping pitch at zero, you can hear whens its there!
Suppose the "small resonance field" that Jan mentions is the little shaky bit on spool up that lasts a second but scares the first few times?

Anyway can recommend Android "Head Speed Tachometer" it is accurate to within a few RPM, made life really easy, had 2 or 3 goes at changing the curves to get it close, no point being too anal, slight changes will occur with different batteries etc.

My figs, did not calibrate the end points so a few% off, here they are using Spektrum DX8:

Mode TX% RX% RPM Pitch
Norm 30% 26% 1420 -3/+13 (Throttle 0 to 30% in first 25% of stick).
FM 1 30% 26% 1420 -13/+13 Linear
FM 2 58% 55% 1710 -13/+13 Linear
Hold Put about 15% in and did the AB switch when I programmed Mode 4, pitch linear same as last FM 1&2

Calibrated with a freshly charged battery, suppose these may drop a bit when using fully charged batteries that decay slightly from the night before so no point chasing.

Went with Jans recommendation for HS (1700 OK for 90% of flyers) and changed my mind on 1850 because thats for insane crazy stuff and intend taking this easy for a while!

As you can see there is 3-4% difference between TX and what Jlog tels me the ESC receives. I am not going to calibrate because its only a relative thing anyway.
You can see a dip on the graph, tested the auto bailout, worked very well. I obviously didnt let the blades stop! The ESC cannot measure RPM if its not providing power.

I did try just spooling up from throttle hold on my 550 but didnt like it and I couldnt fit the CC autobailout in, however, got into the habit of hitting FM1 almost straight away after takeoff.

Well nothing flew off and killed the neighbors cat or made strange noises so no excuses not to fly then.

CyprusFlyer
05-09-2012, 03:47 AM
Final titavation stage, I was concerned that vibrations induced onto the motor cables may over time cause metal fatigue, I have heard of at least one case where this has happened.

So, amazing what materials come in useful, the hard rubber foam that comes with Scorpion motors in a tin is tops. You can cut it with a sharp knife and sand it with rough paper nicely. Didnt file too well so had to cut grooves for the motor connectors.

Finally, clamped the cables against it with velcro, should prevent any movement now.

Groucho_
05-09-2012, 12:38 PM
Just noticed you have a fusuno fin.

I've got one too but haven't used it yet. I did notice however that being softer and more pliable, it does have the potential to vibrate more than the stock carbon fibre fin.

CyprusFlyer
05-09-2012, 03:05 PM
Will keep my eye on it, no vibes notices at 1700 RPM, it did blur when I had the issue with that grub screw though. Maybe an early problem indicator lol.

CyprusFlyer
05-10-2012, 07:37 AM
Not much doing, had to replace the armature on my table saw that took all morning, now I can easily cut some wood plates for safe transportation of big heli's.

GPS Logger arrived (SM Modell Bau), yes it works and found the English manual eventually thanks to Google Chrome.

Seems that the software SM GPS Konverter does all the stuff, muddled through some of it but what an uphill struggle.

Great products but bloody hell, come on guys make a reasonable effort to make it easy for an international market, thats if they want international sales!

Rant over, any pointers or links in English for the GPS Logger?

ZuvieleTeile
05-10-2012, 08:51 AM
Mode TX% RX% RPM Pitch
Norm 30% 26% 1420 -3/+13 (Throttle 0 to 26% in first 25% of stick).
FM 1 30% 26% 1420 -13/+13 Linear
FM 2 58% 55% 1710 -13/+13 Linear
Hold Put about 15% in and did the AB switch when I programmed Mode 4, pitch linear same as last FM 1&2

As you can see there is 3-4% difference between TX and what Jlog tels me the ESC receives. I am not going to calibrate because its only a relative thing anyway.
You can see a dip on the graph, tested the auto bailout, worked very well. I obviously didnt let the blades stop! The ESC cannot measure RPM if its not providing power.

Well nothing flew off and killed the neighbors cat or made strange noises so no excuses not to fly then.

Would you mind posting one of your .lov files here? Possibly with all flight modes.

CyprusFlyer
05-10-2012, 09:20 AM
OK, not many of interest, just HS calibration/ground running, but kept this one that I showed as a picture a few posts back. Just curious why the interest for you seasoned guys?
All flight modes just switch between the 2 HS for now.

ZuvieleTeile
05-10-2012, 03:17 PM
Thanks for the file.
For some reason I can't open it in LogView.
Tried it with a different device setup (JLg-1) but still out of luck.

CyprusFlyer
05-10-2012, 03:41 PM
Strange, new to these so may have cocked up or there is something ime not doing right. Here is the raw text file direct off the SD card then for import into LogView.

ZuvieleTeile
05-10-2012, 07:36 PM
Got it running now. Thanks.

Looks good so far. Highest PWM was 85%, so there is plenty of headroom for the governor and some more head-speed too.
There is one bigger spike at around min. 3:40, where you pulled about 1200 Watts.
What did you do there? Having fun?:lol:

CyprusFlyer
05-11-2012, 12:15 AM
Ah thanks, so checking the health of my system, thanks appreciate that. So, PWM Motor is Pulse Width Modulation for a switch mode type input for the power duty cycle?

BTW that power peak was caused testing the Auto Bailout, have to be VERY careful using that, purposely had the blades tight but it does kick. Shame you cant alter the fast spool up rate like you can with Castle ESC's.

Good to go for tomorrow, cant wait.

CyprusFlyer
05-11-2012, 09:21 AM
TDR would not fit in the truck or car sideways, had to pull my finger out and sort something out for the weekend, just some bits of wood, bungee and hooks etc.
TDR is very tail heavy without batteries and blades folded back, wasnt happy hanging it all off the skids whilst moving so a bit of pipe insulation helped there.
Photos on Show you TDR photo thread, thats it, if the wind doesnt get up too much, fly tomorrow!

ZuvieleTeile
05-11-2012, 10:44 AM
Nice setup in your truck there.:lol:

I always transport my TDR with batteries. Too tail-heavy and unstable otherwise.

You are correct in the PWM.
This is the "output" of the ESC.
As you can see, it does not correspond the the TX output.
At about 65 to 70% TX we have already 100% ESC/PWM.

Nice thing in the JLog is when you look at the PWM battery relationship.
You can see easily that the voltage goes down over the course of the flight and the PWM goes up to keep your programmed headspeed (if you fly on governor).
If the PWM is up to 100% for a big part of the flight, either through maneuvers or through declining battery voltage, then your gear ratio is not optimal.
It also depends of course on what headspeed you fly the most.
I like to fly around 1600 and my PWM never reaches 100%
If I go up to 1850 and do some hard flips or full pitch climbs, then PWM dips into 100%.
That's ok, as long as it does not do it for a longer period of time.

The health of the system setup can also be seen at 'Temp PA", that's the internal temperature of the ESC. Should be below 100 degrees at all times.

CyprusFlyer
05-11-2012, 11:48 AM
Thanks that makes perfect sense, will monitor for a while and check the parameters, I like the analysis bit, easy to spot things that otherwise might miss.. Did the same with the Castle stuff to work out a safe flight time, will have to keep it simple for tomorrow, just go for 6 mins and see what the packs end up on although expect 9 - 10 mins is viable at low HS taking it easy with 4.5A packs.

Truck worked out well, just have to work out where to lash the generator etc and yes decided to transport the TDR with a fully charged pack, ready to go.

Just got hold of some silicon grease from a diver friend (O Ring grease), so grease her up for tomorrow.
Completed a random bolt test for tightness, checked all links wiring, Vbar setup again and pitch V Tx curves, tail blades and Gyro sense blah blah. BTW that Pure Silicon Grease used by divers is great, "Tenacious" indeed, in fact like s*** to a blanket lol.

Another snippet, the top battery plate I bought with the lower did not work out, however,it fits perfectly as a battery plate for Logo 500/600, sticks out enough to get the CoG correct, lucky or what!

A few beers and early night then maiden flight tomorrow :peace

Groucho_
05-11-2012, 05:18 PM
Just got hold of some silicon grease from a diver friend (O Ring grease), so grease her up for tomorrow.


You were supposed to use that silicon grease on the four O-Rings in the head...