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View Full Version : KDE Performance tail and Carbon Fiber Push Tail Mod


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flerpie
03-19-2012, 09:46 PM
ddj....no tail vibes or other contributing problems, right?
Just snapped I guess. I saw pic5.

ddj74
03-19-2012, 09:56 PM
First day i flew it was rock solid. Was able to increase my gain from 65% to 85% i think. Second day it flew perfect then all of the sudden about 6ft in the air got tail wag. Lowered the gain and still the same. Took it in for inspection and saw the broken part and linkage was all wobbly. No tail strikes or hard landings...wasn't even flying hard. Was in my front yard doing cuircuts in about 20mph winds and pitching the heli hard up and down when it happened. I was just testing out the stability before my weekend ball park fly tunning it in.

gmoneyhobbit
03-19-2012, 10:03 PM
what has KDE said about this? Free replacement?

flerpie
03-19-2012, 10:05 PM
ddj already posted that above.

ddj74
03-19-2012, 10:16 PM
what has KDE said about this? Free replacement?

This was the exact response in email:

"Hi Daniel,
In all of our PTC’s across every product line I have never seen one break like this. We can of course ship you a new part, but we will need this back as I want our engineering team to look at this.
Please send me the following information so I can process the return"

Yes they shipped a free replacement part without questions asked even without sending old part back yet. Should arrive Thursday or Friday. Excellent customer service and fast response. They even replied on Sunday and shipped today. I did send them prehand without them asking pictures of the broken part so they saw the damaged part.

Here's a pic of my tail with the broken part removed...only thing those blades have touched is tall grass...

ddj74
03-22-2012, 12:56 AM
Parts came in today to convert my 500 esp tail to 500 pro tail. Definitely an improvement on slop. Also got the replacement broken part for the KDE performance tail but they sent the wrong bearings. Oh well. Also they shipped two of the same part due to the fact the first one they sent wasn't inspected as they said they would before shipping so they sent another one that was carefully inspected. Second part will arrive soon so hopefully it'll have the correct bearings. Although i'm not sure if i'm going to deal with it anymore. Might just sell the kit or build a second tail for a backup with it.

Also while i was down decided to upgrade my GP780 gyro to a Spartan Quark. Definitely a much better gyro. Can't wait to test fly this puppy tomorrow.

BTW did you guys get your parts in and installed yet?

cgetman02
03-22-2012, 04:33 AM
I installed the Quick UK CF tail control rod on my 600 and it parted ways with the heli while flying! Obviously not a good thing.

What I found out in another thread is that the Quick UK ball ends are slightly bigger than the standard balls. My solution was to use standard ball ends on the Quick UK rod assembly. No problem since then.

Also don't try and use a CF control rod without any support. There is way too much whopping around in flight and it can disconnect from the heli.

Trying to prevent unnecessary crashes from my experience.

FWIW, Crashmaster

ddj74
03-22-2012, 10:41 AM
Don't have issues with the carbon fiber rod install. It came with perfect fitting ball. The 500 doesnt need the support because it's short. 550 and up i would use them. I'm talk specifically about the 500 kde performance tail kit and nothing else and not other size models.

Mateyhv
03-22-2012, 06:34 PM
There seems to be problems at KDE with stock, I just received a mail telling me that maybe some bearings might be missing... :face

ddj aren't you going to use that super tail anymore???

Wildcards
03-22-2012, 08:01 PM
Man I'm really looking forward to this upgrade as it seems my tail is becoming less stable every time I got fly, I'm progressively flying harder and harder. My gain is only at 68, anything more than that I get the tail jitters during hurricanes.

ddj74
03-22-2012, 08:28 PM
Man I'm really looking forward to this upgrade as it seems my tail is becoming less stable every time I got fly, I'm progressively flying harder and harder. My gain is only at 68, anything more than that I get the tail jitters during hurricanes.

With the pro tail setup i got to 70% gain and the KDE setup i had it around 80 to 85%. I got the new KDE parts today but i may make a spare out of them instead. We will see.

Wildcards
03-22-2012, 08:33 PM
I'm also using the pro tail

Mateyhv
03-22-2012, 09:48 PM
I had the gyro set around 74% with the DS520. 78% with the 8910A and honestly I don't expect to go any higher with the tail upgrade. I primarily got the upgrade because the stock slider is a little harder when moving very close to the tail case. I got several slider and all perform the same. Do not know if that is normal but supposed that a double traction points will enhance the movement.

ddj76, I just measured the ring that you got broken, the outer section is 0.7 mm thick x 2.0 mm high. I suppose the new part you received is the same isn't it?

ddj74
03-22-2012, 10:37 PM
All three (2 new and broken one) look exactly the same. I might try it out this weekend again. Now i have a complete extra tail so i can swap easily back and forth if i want. So i might park fly it this weekend with video just in case it fails again...lol. Hopefully wont be a crash video. I loved the KDE tail and i hope it works out but at least i have spares so no more down time.

ddj74
03-23-2012, 01:05 AM
Well i gave in and re-installed the KDE performance tail. Will test it out tomorrow. Gave it a little hand stress test and all looks good. Maybe i just had a defective part. We will see. Definitely love the practically slop-less design and very fluid movement...

Wildcards
03-29-2012, 11:36 PM
How has the replacement unit been holding up?

ddj74
03-30-2012, 04:54 AM
5 flights no issues but i took it off and put the pro tail back on. For my own reasons i'm not happy with it. Too many parts and bearings for 5 to 10% more gain. So if someone has this setup i'll sell it for $40 for extra parts.

ddj74
04-01-2012, 06:52 PM
Spoke too soon...you know i kinda felt bad about this whole situation but then today after failure number two with a hand picked part from KDE rep I'm quite F'in furious. I should have stuck to my first thoughts and stayed away from it but dumbass me gave it another try. About 10 flights since i've re-installed it and today it failed yet again. I was about 4 feet off the ground and tail started shaking violently and tried to auto but it was too close to the ground and too high a headspeed to save it.

Damage report...

Set of Align 430 blades
Set of DS520 servo gears
Set of Landing skids
One broken eye loop
Set of front torque gear set

This F'in part broke exactly the same way yet again but this time i lost control and costs me $80 in damages. Luckly i hit the throttle cutt off and saved possible more damages.

I've followed the install to perfection and i highly advise to stay away from the KDE TREX 500 performance tail. It's a piece of shit!

Luigi_tuga
04-02-2012, 10:27 AM
Hi ddj74!!
Really sorry to hear that damage report. :hug:
I hope KDE take some responsibility for the crash.
Damn that tail looked such a perfect piece of engineering:face:thumbdown:

Mateyhv
04-02-2012, 11:59 AM
:wow2::wow2::wow2: wow second unit broken!!! You are lucky to have escaped with only $80 damage. Shafts, bearings and gears are ok?

Well, of course I wont install it!

Wildcards
04-02-2012, 12:40 PM
Nothing against op but id really like to see more cases like this to rule out installation error. I'm pretty sure kde direct has done numerous tests before making it avaliable to the public.

flerpie
04-02-2012, 03:35 PM
Spoke too soon...you know i kinda felt bad about this whole situation but then today after failure number two with a hand picked part from KDE rep I'm quite F'in furious.

This F'in part broke exactly the same way yet again but this time i lost control and costs me $80 in damages. Luckly i hit the throttle cutt off and saved possible more damages.

I've followed the install to perfection and i highly advise to stay away from the KDE TREX 500 performance tail. It's a piece of shit!

I was afraid it would turn out this way....bummer :(
I won't be flying my KDE upgraded tail until KDE comes out
with TailCrankThingeeVersion2.0

nicos
04-02-2012, 03:36 PM
ddj74 do you think the tail speed was too high with your setup and there was too much stress on that part in flight?
i'm asking cos i had a crash with my 500esp because the kde aftermarket arm bent in flight and the ball poped off!
i was not using the double sided one you used but have it on order!
what got me thinking was i am using the helical gear from the pro with a 12pinion and am now wondering if the tail speed is way too high stressing the tail parts too much?
what do you think?

Vince_be
04-02-2012, 03:38 PM
Hi,

I have discussed about this with Patrick from KDE, here is his answer:

Hey Vincent,

Thanks for checking in with us and yes, I read the thread this morning and unfortunately, I cannot post to HeliFreak, so there is definitely misleading information that I cannot post to help explain/correct. I’m not sure what is going on with that particular customer, but this is an isolated case and have never heard/seen this issue from our testing or the rest of the market. The wall thickness is the same on the 500 as it is on the 550/600 and 700 designs, and none of the larger helicopters have seen this issue either. Since the tail forces on a 500 are far less, there should definitely be no failures. If the Aluminum is tearing, something incorrect is going on with the tail on the particular helicopter – just not sure what it could be for this particular customer. The tail forces are far less than the tensile strength of Aluminum (even the stock plastic arms hold-up in this area), so not sure if the customer is being truthful or if there could be a problem with his setup.

We had asked the customer to send us the failed parts (and also an extra that we had sent) for us to analyze, but never received the return pre-paid envelope for us to analyze.

We have the tail install on six different machines here and never had an issues, and they’ve been through hell to test the limits of performance.

Thanks,

Patrick

Owner, KDE Direct

Feeback
04-02-2012, 03:48 PM
Mine just let go on my 600. :mad: