Newbies-A little note on "Experts"

[Iceman140]

tz250w-

Why do I feel pain when I think of racing motorcycles? I can see why you picked helis. Same damage from crashes, severe and painful. At least with helis it's only in the wallet, you hope.

My father-in-law raced Nascar and built his own tube frames from scratch. Won races too, great mechanic. But at the time Richie Evans was winning due in no small part to the $25K he had invested by sponsors in his car compared to the $10K the other guys could afford back in the 70's. Absolutely, if you can build it it's the way to go. On the job if a guy can't finish a task to completion, I assign him another task. But the ones I know that can build, I assign the critical jobs for the install. I helped install 44,000 pairs of telephone wires for a major hospital here in MA. We had all the best guys on the task. Testing found a mere 2 dozen errors. A 0.054% error rate. Funny thing was 12 errors came from the most judgemental, arrogant technician we had. I didn't have the heart to tell him though. (Told everyone else but....... :mrgreen: )

Ed

[Iceman140]

Hey guys,

SOmeone here posted that the average repair on a TRex 450 was in his experience $20. I also heard of other estimates lower for some repairs. I'm not singling anyone out per se, but just to offer the other side of the story, one hard crash will happen at sometime. A TRex 450 is not that big of a heli, but if the 401 gyro is damaged and the tail section takes a hit, the repair will most likely be over $200. GY401 $140 + metal tail assembly parts in excess of $60. I'm sure the newbies want the whole story.

Nobody has posted their most expensive repair yet, so I'll be first. One broken grip and a stripped tooth on the main gear. Total less than $10. Next. Again MOST expensive.

I learned to fly by sim first. :mrgreen:

Ed

[Jermo]

Ice if you build it the way Finless shows you won't wipe a gyro. If you go over $20 on a repair you were doing something you shouldn't have to begin with.

I said $20 average. In reality it's less per crash. I factored in the cost of a full frame set when I started doing flips/rolls as hard as I could and crunched her inverted. Averaging the costs of all my crashes was slightly less then $20 per crash. Understand also that my Crash per hour of flight time drastically dropped after the first several weeks.

I followed the RADD school of rotary flight and Realflight G3.5 Sim.

I'm basing my numbers on my personal first hand experience.

I know 100% why you doubt the $20. You started with a small notoriously unstable chopper that tends to break without ever leaving the ground.

I got to see one fly this past weekend. Guy had been flying for over 2 years and head it maxed out with upgrades..ie DX7, CF blades, Good HH Gyro... he flew the snot out of it. He stated the CP was "Definately not a beginners chopper" but once you could fly it was cheap to repair. Not that it matters but he was inverted at the time (well ok..he wasn't...the chopper is)..

Ice,
There comes a point you just have to trust those that came before us and are sharing their EXPERIENCE. They have ZERO to gain by thier advice. To argue the point just means you get to reinvent the wheel....... at the end of your trials you'll be frustrated and still not know much more than you've already been told.

just trying to be your friend man.... if nobody cared then nobody would say anything.

[Iceman140]

Jermo-

Again your not reading. Did you read my MOST expensive repair so far? Seems pretty reliable and stable to me. I have real life experiences too. You're not the only one. My friend DID mess up a GY240 ON A LARGER MORE STABLE HELI. you experiences are not the only ones in the world. Check the youtube vids. The crashes are about micro/mini helicopters. Serious money heli crashes can and will happen on the big ones too. I won't base my life choices solely on what you've experienced in life either. You are not the rule.

AGAIN, IN CAPS SO YOU'LL GET IT. I'M NOT CRASHING MY AXE AND OTHER PEOPLE INCLUDING BIG HELI FLYERS ARE FINDING IT TO BE STABLE.

Have you even tried one?

I met a woman at the open house this Sunday. She owns a nice .30 nitro heli. Is she enjoying her heli experience? Absolutely! Is she flying the heck out of it. Absolutely! Did she build it herself? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!
Another one of my points proven by a realife experience. You don't have to build your own heli to enjoy this hobby.

We have many Computer IT engineers call us to build their comp network for them or to add to an existing one. They either don't have the ability, certifications, or desire to build it themselves so they call us. If I told them they couyldn't possibly know how a network works unless they build it themselves, they'd laugh at me and call someone else.

On the other side. We have a local hooby store just over the border into CT. A gentlemen there buys just about every kit he can get. Then he build it and sells the completed car, airplane, or heli to someone, often for less than he paid for it, and buys another. After a while the shop owner got wind of this reselling thing and told him how he has people come in that are interested in the hobby, but just DON'T WANT TO BUIILD. He asked him if he would be interested to build for them and he agreed. Ain't life grand. Imagine that!!! People who don't want to build. Why I aughtta run them SOB's offa my dagburn planet I should I tell ya!!!!!! They'll never enjoy this hobby!!! Just ask the experts I tell ya!!!

Hey newbies!!! Did you know that experts once told the populace of their times that the world was flat? No really, I kid you not!!!!!!!

Ed

[Jermo]

Ed outsourcing in IT is more about saving cash than skill. Comparing a network to an RC Helicopter is whacked. You won't be repairing then network because you pushed your data faster than your skill would allow.

I'm glad you turned the post to be all about me and my experience rather than my post stating specifically to follow the experience of the more seasoned pilots.

Building the chopper yourself does several things:
1. you know how to fix it because you understand how it goes together.
2. You know if it was assembled correctly ..ie proper threadlocking and alignment. RTF kits are NOTORIOUS for not having proper threadlock applied. How do we know this? Choppers falling apart during flight.

Just because you were able to do something doesn't mean the average person can. Read around on the boards and you'll find LOTS of new folks that tried the hobby with the smaller choppers having major issues. Read the boards and you'll also find ALOT of people saying they are amazed at the difference a larger chopper makes.

If this were just a discussion between us with no outside evidence I'd consider you could be right. There's just too much real evidence the small choppers are less than ideal for new pilots. Only someone with a vested interest would promote the small choppers as beginner birds.

Truth be told I'd rather someone spend their cash on a sim than buy a blade CP or anything in that class. They'll get more from it.

[jgoodwin]

I don't want to interrupt this civil conversation, but I just wanted to mention that I could have spent my £60 ($120) on a used sim instead of a used FP Heli, but I had more fun and learned more about how the chopper works. Which should I have done?

A few other things:
- Did the Experts ever think that the only guys that post here about problems with their cheap helicopter are only posting because they have a problem and don't know that they should go to RCgroups for help? (Do you think they guys that don't have problems would post here?)
- I know I mentioned the local culture of this forum a bit father up (I think), but have you really checked out RCgroups and seen how many people are actually happy with these things?
- Have these Experts ever flown one? It was asked a few times above but nobody seems to have said "I have flown Helicopters for years and tried to fly a <insert cheap heli here> and couldn't".
- I realise smaller cheaper helicopters are inherently less stable, but have you noticed how far Helicopters have come in the last year? Even just 6 months? Do you think none of that technology has filtered down?

I agree that if you want to be a really serious pilot you should probably buy a sim first. But I have to say that I would have never spent £140 on a sim until AFTER I found out what the hobby was all about and how far I wanted to go. I think not everyone want to fly a big helicopter or go much father than figure-8s in the backyard. I do not think the Experts opinion applies to everyone.

Well I am going back over to RCgroups,

J

[tz250w]

Ed,

I'm sure you could give me a lot of help on my networking issues, as I could on your motorcycle (if you have one). But when it comes to RC helicopters, I think I might be better off listening to those that have more experience than I with them. A grain of salt here and there, sure... As with most things in life. But the way I see it. If someone has gone through the headaches and learned from their mistakes, why should I do the same if the information is already out there? :dontknow

[Jermo]

JG good points.
Few comments.
Some of us are natives of the net and read multiple forums including RCG.
Some of us have flown <insert cheap copter here> and are grateful we didn't waste our time.

If you're having fun with what you've done then it's the right thing for you to do period. My perspective is when someone hasn't done something and asks for opinions to what they should do give the optimal answer first.

In my line of work time is money. I don't want to waste time learning to fly because that's my personal goal. If my goal had been to just play around with RC helicoptors then one possible right answer could have been to buy a smaller chopper (I almost did buy a BCC). By defining my goal I chose to be efficient with my time and money which led to the T-Rex 450. If I had wanted to just play around with them and not worry about flying then literally anything would have been ok..

At the end of the day it all comes down to what YOU PERSONALLY WANT TO DO. That's the only way to find the right answer for you.

I can't speak for anyone else but I've seen the new toy helicoptors and they are nicer than those available at the time I entered the hobby. At the end of the day they are subject to the exact same physics that all choppers follow such that a smaller rotor will still inherently be less stable than a larger one.

I've yet to see anyone flying a stock micro RTF who's happy with it. Most have replaced the TX/RX and Gyro as a minimum. *shrug*

what do I know..I'm not an expert. I just fly all upright orientations and am working inverted after 6 months. I wonder if I could have gotten this far with a micro? :dontknow

That's what I'd love to know. Has anyone successfully started from zero in this hobby with a small chopper (micro which is everything smaller than the T450) and able to fly all upright orientations, flips, rolls, and working inverted after 6 months?

anyone?

I'm not superman..I'm an old guy (42).

[Iceman140]

Jgoodwin-

Thank you for that. tz250w- feel free to do as you please. The experts do have experience granted. But when an expert comes out and says I don't know what I'm talking about in the field of electronics and I prove him wrong, what have you to say or believe about that?

Jermo-

Something just dawned on me today. I know, I'm so smart sometimes. Most times I'm stupid and I don't know what I'm talking about, but most already know that. You said in your experiences that your average repair cost on your heli was $20. I believe you wholeheartedly. But on the other hand, I just saw your video on computer radio set-up, and it was quite nice I must add. But it lead me to believe something some may not have considered in reading your post. Jermo, you are not a newbie!!!! I'd consider you more of an expert. And as an expert, I would hope your flying skills would be a lot better than a newbie and you could recognise when your heli was in trouble, could correct it in time, and remembering to flare properly, you'd land it safely. Your crashes would be less and their severity would also be less. In order to get a fair assessment of average damage costs, we need to include only newbie crashes in the equation. It's their initial expense we're talking about anyway. And newbie crashes can indeed be spectacular.

But like jgoodwin said, you think people that aren't having trouble go looking for help? I've got a friend of mine flying his RTF inside his house from room to room, and he only has 1 month experience. Must be some good RTF huh? And what about the chemical composition of insulation thing having an effect on a wire's capacitance? You never came back to tell me I was right, and believe me, I could flood Helifreaks harddrives with data to prove I was right. You've never once came back and said I was right about anything. I can't be wrong about everything and still be in the position I've been in for the last ten years.

As far as the "You have to build your own heli thing", that locks so many people out of this hobby that it isn't even funny. I saw a lot of physically diminished individuals during the open house Sunday. If all they can do is move a joystick because something like CP has limited their finger manipulation skills, then feel free to send me their kits, and either I'll build them myself or I'll find someone willing to do it for them. Stupid statements like that coming from someone who seems to speak from authority irritate me to no end. But not as much as the uninformed that believe such rubbish.

I've taken enough bashing of my credentials and questioning my real life experiences for one thread. I've said what I came to say. People are having sucess flying RTF's and learning a heck of a lot about helis from them and their sim experiences, and it's not costing them their savings to do it. I'm willing to help anyone trying to get into this hobby. I just wish everyone was.

Ed

[Iceman140]

The following items were taken from RunRyder:

I got the heli-max axe cp off the brown truck today. Not very much assembly required upon opening the box. I charged the battery pack while at work, and when I got home I installed the main blades and gave it a quick hover in my garage. Not to bad for such a small heli. I managed to run out the pack in my garage. It needs to have the control rods adjusted a bit, and the tail took me some gettin used to. The collective seems very powerful. I am not a very good flyer yet, but I like it for a $200 rtf. The mixing in the board for the eccpm is not perfect, but I think I can tweak it a bit also. The cyclics are a very soft around center stick, no adjustment for d/r or expo on the tx, seems to require alot of movement of the right stick to make it move, that could be due to the tight links also. I do like that I can get a quick flight in during my lunch break at work with this thing in the shop. I haven't ever flown a small electric heli before, and the smallest heli I have flown was a lite machines 110.

It's a good day for a guinness!!!



I part-time at a LHS, got a chance to look over a new axe on friday and compare it to its obvious competitor, the blade cp, and it looks to be a pretty good value.

pros:
way thick mainshaft
uprated ventalated stock tailmotor
much sturdier frame and landing gear
uses 400 class motor, yet is still fairly light
uses 9 cell nimh stock, so easy to upgrade to 3s lipo
metal large diam tailboom that clamps in trex style for easy repairs
swash is plastic, but really large and stiff
cheaper

cons
appears to be a hiller, not bell hiller linkage

I'm hoping they will sell a arf version without electronics, might be a really good flyer with a brushless and HH gyro


Dean in Milwaukee



I picked up mine yesterday and went through one stock battery and then set it up in my Futaba 7CH and changed to FullyMaxx 860mah LiPos. Much better performance but the swash still needs some TLC (Tender Loving Care) and maybe a bit of aluminum for more precision.

Overall it is okay and I am sure there will be some good mods for the Axe. My next step is a brushless setup and a Futaba GY240.

Carl

A good day flying is when you don't have to fix anything at night.


We ordered one for the boy he's 12 ready to graduate from airhog helix we just want to see where he goes w/ it , it just dont make since to spend kool G so he so he can through it in the closet like a band instrument I got high hopes for him, hes playstation 2 addict so the hand eye cord. should be there I guess we'll see thursday ........

Freestyle Bandit

And its cool the boy got an eye opener like the rest of the world he thought they just flew thierselves LOL LOL LOL I just love these big talkers I remember when I first started I had alot of plank experience but that dont help u hover Ive had him watch the video and he says that ones more stable than mine I told him that it was just the pilot all I can do is keep handing him the radio and hope for the best I didnt wreck till I started flyin foward but 30s are a bit more stable than these electrics ........

Freestyle Bandit




And there are more, all under AxeCP

Good day gentlemen....and newbies....remember, it's all about having fun in the first place.

[Jermo]

Ice you know everything and are always right. Somethings just don't matter. I didn't answer you on the insulation/capacitance comment because with our equipment it's not a significant issue due to the frequencies we use.

On the Axe or any other small chopper. Anyone who claims to be new and states they "gave it a quick hover in my garage" is definately not representing reality.

As far as me being an "expert". Not even close. I started this hobby THIS YEAR in Feb. What I do have is hardcore experience and background in electronics, communications, aviation, computer technologies, security, and Microsoft server products. I also do reasonably well fishing. I'm well spoken and used to giving presentations.

I truely do hope one day I can fly half as well as some of the guys that grace this board.

[gmohr]

Well, I am a newbie, but not a kid. I work in IT and have for over 15
years. I have been flying helicopters for 3 months. Now with that out of
the way on to my OPINION.

I did buy one of the cheap helicopters and while I did not pay much I have
spent 3X times more on it than I should fixing after crashes and upgrades.
It is unstable... even with all the tweeks and mods I have done to it... So I
bought a Trex 450 from a co-worker... I have taken it apart and put it
back togther making sure everything was as it should be.. in doing so I
learned that a frame spacer was missing. That is on order... but this helicopter is more stable..

Now I am building a Trex 600N for training as it will give me much more stick
time. I fly my sim every night and hope to one day possibly compete in
the FAI style comps. From MY experience it was a waste of money on the
little HBCP. I should have bought the 450 or 600 first and built them. I
have learned so much from taking the 450 apart and building the 600N.
Hoping to be ready to maiden flight the 600N this weekend.

For those looking for advice.. a good and knowledgeable person on this
forum gave this advice to me.. Purchase the biggest helicopter you can
afford to crash.. because crashes will happen.. so if all you can afford is
an Axe, Blade, Honeybee or Walkera.. then buy that... and progress at
your own rate... but please do not become frustrated with the hobby as it
is not the hobbies fault... and LISTEN to the Experts as they have gone
through the hard knocks already.. one reason I listened and bought the
600N for training...

Peace love and soft landings!

[tz250w]

I'm not superman..I'm an old guy (42).

Same here! :lol:

I started flying my heli two months ago. Planks a bit longer. I did my sim time and thought at first there was no way I was going to be able to do this.

The reason I decided to give it a go was a friend, with twenty plus years experience in RC planes had recently bought his first heli, an Esky Belt CP. He raved about how "cheap" it was.

I found something cheaper, an old Shuttle that was hanging in my friend's bike shop. It was free. Or so I thought... I've now changed EVERYTHING except the tail boom and four servos. :lol: I've only had one crash to date (knocking on wood), most of the parts were replaced due to age and slop. Oh, and there was this nice shiny new .40 engine in the showcase and... :oops:

Back on topic...

After my first month and my Esky buddy's 4th or 5th we finally got them out together for some flight time. He kept grumbling about setting problems and instability, wind, his wife's cooking, etc... I gassed mine up and flew around doing some lazy 8s and a couple wing overs. Yes, after a month and lots of sim time.

He could "fly" the Esky but was never comfortable with it. It was obviously twitchy and even the slightest breeze would make it head for the ground, or sky depending on pitch.

I asked him if he wanted to try my Shuttle. He had never flown anything (heli wise) but his Esky. He spooled it up and lifted to a solid hover at eye level, sat there for a bit then set it down smoothly. He then turned around and said "no way!" (or the Japanese equivalent). He then lifted off and did some slow circuits, side in hovers and then set it down with a worried look on his face. I asked him what was wrong and he said he was becoming hypnotised by it and forgot he was actually flying it. :shock: That's how stable it was compared to his Esky. He handed the TX back to me and shook his head in disbelief.

He is now planning his 30~50 class purchase.

In a role reversal, I am building a Trex. Not an Esky... Why? Because I want the challenge of something more difficult to advance on, something quite and small enough to fly behind my home and without having to worry about it being a P.O.S. out of the box. What sold me on it was all the suggestions (and great Bob videos) on this website.

[Iceman140]

Jermo-

Again you miss the point of the thread. I am not always right, but what I know I know, and I refuse to let someone else tell me that what is right is wrong. I've come too far and worked to hard and made too many mistakes for someone to say I'm not experienced because they don't consider me an expert.

I keep coming back to you because you keep missing the point. We're saying the same thing. You mention no threadlock. I keep saying, take a screw out and put threadlock on it and put it back, then do another. In the meantime your heli stays assembled and you still have something to fly. Other people in other forums are saying the same thing I'm saying too. They got an Axe, learned to fly it, liked it and then modified the heck out of it. And had a great time doing it. Why do you insist on denying their experience?

In my opinion, any company that sets their network up based on cash savings alone is run by a bunch of idiots. I've seen cost saving hacks install computer cables that later had to be ripped out and replaced at twice the cost. I'm as much of a pragmatist as you are apperently. I do nothing that I don't consider practical. You worry about time and I'm concerned with the end result of my efforts. That's where we differ. Hack in a fiber optics cable to a stock brokerage to save money and having it fail could cost the customer no less than $100,000 per minute of down time.

I only used the insulation thing as an example of someone telling me what to do electronically and yet being unable to explain certain aspects of electronics. You insisted on telling me an insulator can't have an effect on a conductors ability to conduct. Insisting that insulators can't be conductors just shows me what your experience is in the field of electricity. But I'm wrong for pointing that out. I never once discredited you for what you know. I only took note of how quick you were in your first post here to try and discredit me without doing your homework first or even asking me what I meant by saying what I said. Did you like the job I did on my Dragonus so far? Did you note the intact phillips head screws? Would it kill you or any other expert to say, "Nice job so far. Looks like you've done this before." No I guess not. To do so might actually imply that I might know what I'm doing. And that would give credibility to the other things I'm saying, and we can't have that huh?

Funny thing, I've stayed hired all these years over other possible candidates because of my diplomacy and my ability to converse with customers and clients at all levels of company position. Whether I'm politely asking the janitor if we can move his stuff, or discussing networking alternatives with a fortune 500 CEO because what he wants to do just can't be done. And here I am arguing now in a thread I started simply to tell new people that this hobby doesn't have to be as hard as some people say it is. Unbelievable! :arggg:

[tz250w]

I think "we" need to take a chill pill and have fun. :smokin:

[gmohr]

As my granddaughter would say... "I think someone needs a hug".

This is a hobby guys.. an opinions are like.. well you know.. and everyone has one...

Iceman, no offense but you are sounding rather intense. I know this is a forum and the written word doesn't always convey our emotions.

Oh.. Nice job on the Dragonus.

[Iceman140]

tz250w-
gmohr-

Thanks, I appreciate your comments. You're right I am getting a little intense. That's why I've decided to end my contribution to this thread. It's just too darn frustrating.

Jermo-

It's not about you buddy. It's only about a few of the things you say. My appologises.

And with that I'm going flyin' :fly :fly :fly :fly

Ed

[BarracudaHockey]

Just remember these four things and everyone will be fine:
Fun, Learning, Friendship and Mutual Respect

[tz250w]

Five, Beer. :cheers

[Jermo]

Friends don't let friends do things without letting them know if they think it's a BAD idea. At the end of the day it's the friends decision but they can't say nobody told them.

When people don't care they don't say anything.

[Iceman140]

And when I think my friend's making a BAD decision and it turns out to be the right one for him, I tell him so. And I learn that my point of view is not always the right one.

But that's just me.

Ed

[Iceman140]

Hey Little Bro, it looks like you did a great job putting your first high performance heli together. Can't wait to see it fly. I know you've been practicing hard with your cheaper RTF helis and flight sims. Good luck and hope everything goes well.

A quote from vector-g to IIcoolg on his first TRex 450 SA build.

To go along with the friendship and mutual respect thing.

[EricW]

A lot of posts on this board (any board on the Internet) contain information that is false or not really needed.
Especially happens when you'r trying to improve something together.
Would be pretty boring if this was just a info-board with 100% Heli-facts (Nice name btw)
So IMO the 4 paged story I just read was a confirmation of the facts i already knew for some time ;) .
No offense, but by warning people for just that you also place yourself in some kind of "life-Expert" catagorie and it's better to wear a flamesuit ;).

My opinion:

RTF heli's:
Been there, waste of time and money if your going to stay in this hobby.
But on the contrary that can also be translated to experience, The RTF heli's taught me a lot in a short time about how to put a cheap engineered heli back together and manage to make it fly again.
And that cycle a 100 times or more....
So i learned a lot, Only did it the hard (expensive) way.

I,ve seen little to none bad advise posts on this board sofar, that's the main reason why it's a great board.
And when it happens there are always "Experts" around who will correct it and give the advise you really need.
I think when a NooB get's good advise, tests it, and passes the advice to other NooBs is a good thing.
Some although have to find out How the search-section of a bulletin board works ;)

The cable and interference stuff you mention is all great and far beyond my knowledge, but IMO it's better to stick to the subject and start a topic specifically about this subject.
And a good practical example of How it should be done on a heli.

:hug:

Eric

[Iceman140]

EricW-

Thanks for posting. Sorry about your bad experiences with RTFs, but then they're your bad experiences. Those of us having good experiences with the Helimax AxeCP will continue to have good experiences and if you get the drift of this post, it will lead us to stay in this hobby and then move on.

The insulation thing is on subject. The subject is about not taking someone's advice when it's abviously wrong due the the reader's experience. As far as the "Learn to fly, before you modify" thing, building a heli from a kit such as a TRex 450 or a Dragonus II is not modifying it. It's building by the instructions supplied. Then after you fly it, if you feel it's necessary, then do whatever mods you think necessary. Again on subject. Since I started this thread I think I know what my original topic and intention were. And my support of my decision to buy an AxeCP RTF and the fact I and others are having sucess with it is a point worth mentioning and supporting. I still can't get over the fact that some people can't get over that fact. They should be saying somethings to the effect of vector-g's comment to IIcoolg. A buddy of mine took my suggestions,please note I didn't say advice, and he's flying his stable AxeEZ coaxial in his house room to room, messing with the kid and family dog and having a great time. I really am sorry for your failure, but I just wish others would be happy for our sucesses. Please don't tell me about the vast majority unless you've actually done the worldwide statistical data thing. It wouldn't be a comment you could honestly say is true. It would just be an experience. I'm bringing true life sucess stories in here. Not fiction. In "Axe CP separations and setup journal" you'll find some of these sucess stories. Some are modifying, some are not. All are having a good time though and we're supporting each other respectfully and in a friendly manner.

If you had a bad experience going this route, why don't you post your model selection so we can delete it from our list of RTFs? I've already posted my distrust for the Blade CP and it's bad structural support design. Thus I've eliminated it from my list. I'll never buy a walkera, and I doubt I'll buy another RTF at all. I'm moving on and up due to my good experiences thus far and my MAXIMUM REPAIR COST OF LESS THAN $10. You never said which RTF you bought. RTFs are like trainer planes. They don't do much, but the good one can get someone into this hobby. I've already posted info I gathered from Bob's vids on how to make a 3D RTF less touchy and easier to hover. Sorry you didn't get this info in time to avoid a bad experience.

I'm glad you're still in the hobby though, but I'm especially glad you can filter your way through any post found anywhere on the net, and apply what works for you. The world of martial arts has many paths and our particular style of Street combat self-defense is not for everyone. Some get offended at the mere mention of it and others support their style choice as well as I do. But we never criticize each others choice because it leads to the same goal. The arts teach self-control and believe it or not, non-violence.

Different strokes for different folks. By the way, no offense taken, just so you know. :mrgreen:

Ed

[Seeker]

I still can't get over the fact that some people can't get over that fact.
Ed

:WOW (kidden)

I think any co-axe heli is great for tooling around the house (ok probably not any, the 2 CX's anyhow). Some disagree that point but I think it's great to get the fingers, thumbs (whatever) working with the brain, eyes with oriantation. For under $200 I dont think you can go wrong with that toy.

I never had much luck with the (insert heli here) venom, cp myself.. but I've seem some very good pilots put them through thier paces... one of them was flying a stock cp but only one, the others were highly modified.

I fly a Trex and a Raptor 50 and I'm for sure no 3d pilot, but with 25+ years flying planks and only 2 years flying helis, I sure am having a fun time with them. I'm sure I wouldn't be having as much fun if I was still trying to fly a cp. I think you have a good plan, learn what you can on the CP and don't put too much money in it... then move on to something else.

If someone asked me I would recommend the CX over the CP any day for a starter heli... I would then recomend (if they decided they liked flying the heli) at a minimum a 450 sized heli.