Newbies-A little note on "Experts"

[Iceman140]

Seeker-

You can't possibly believe how much I appreciate what you've just said. Thank you.

For all the others who suffer through reading the 4 plus pages here, let me tell you something about myself you may or may not have already figured out.

I love a challenge. No matter what it is. Getting beat repeatedly at chess made me study chess 'til I ran out of human opponents and had to buy my first PC just to continue to learn at a higher level. Then computers themselves became the challenge. Building, programming, debugging computer programs for friends even sometimes over the phone. Then the physical. Martial Arts is my way of life. A real challenge no doubt. My particular style is reality based. Full-contact,no pads, no mats, no trophies, and most of all no nonsense approach to real street conflict. Then Mt Washington in New Hampshire. Winter overnight camping/hiking on what is known to be one of the most dangerous mountains in the world. I've been called crazy, insane, determined, and most of all sucessful. And I've helped anyone that has asked me, in their pursuit of anyone of the above listed endevors.

To put it briefly, the more someone tells me it can't be done, the more I'll go to prove them wrong. Especially if I know it's already being done.

So to stay on subject, and to stopping boring people about my personal experiences I have this to say. If someone decides that they'd like to try the RTF route, I'm here to help suggest a reliable choice from my experience and what to do to make it work so the experience will be good for them too. If someone decides that they have the skills to build from a kit, I'll help with what I can to suggest build techniques or find someone to help with what I don't know. But from here on out I will only deal with facts and practical suggestions. Example: Use a 2mm tap to pre-tap holes for 2 mm screws in plastic. Screws are not taps. Right tool for the right job makes the build go easier.

Seeker again thanks. I'm building my Dragonus II now which is similiar to the TRex 450 and I'm looking at a Helimax Kinetic 50. I may go with something else in the nitro range once I've compared all the models. Oh and one more AxeEZ story. My buddy with his coaxial starts it up next to his comp desk, gets it to a hover, lays the transmitter down next to him while he does stuff on the computer, and after a while returns to his AxeEz still hovering by itself next to him. Reliable, stable, easy to fly. :mrgreen:

Ed

[EricW]

Well,
As you already removed Walkera (DF60) from your list, We seem to agree on that point :lol:

But It's not that easy IMO,
I would not recommend the DF60 for particular reasons.
And As a MartialArts thinker (raised two Kids with that lifestyle, JUDO), there's always a reason for your defeat.
In the case of the DF60, mainly poor material quality, really bad Tx and oversensitive for all external factors.

But for people like me, and Seeker, who have had their experience with RC for many years i still believe it's better to skip any RTF and move on to something with more quality and maybe spend a little more money at first.
For me it was not a question if i liked flying RC.
It was a restart of the RC-hobby but this time flying a heli instead of a plank.
And I was not really up to date with everything so I thought i made the right decision (actually my wife made the decision for me :) ).
After having problems and searching for answers i found this place, It was a Eyeopener i can tell you...

So if anyone, Who is smarter than me, and informs here first what to buy, I probably would ask them:

Is this your first experience with RC, you wanna try?
Yes, Try a coaxial RTF from Icemans list, keep it affordable.
No I drove cars, Try a coaxial RTF from Icemans list, keep it affordable, or join a club and first take a look what you would like to invest.
No I flew planks for some years, buy the biggest heli you can afford to crash..

You're sure you want to make this your hobby / addiction?
Not sure yet, mmhh, Try a RTF from Icemans list and see if you like it.
Ohh, after reading It's already becoming a addiction, Skip all the RTF's and look for the biggest heli you can afford to crash..

That's pretty good advice IMO.

Eric

[Iceman140]

Eric-

Absolutely excellent advice. Definately if you have experience building any RC flight machine, go bigger right off the bat. You probably already have the tools and space and can finish a task to completion. You already know you probably can't build it well in one day, so you won't try. Excellent advice.

My buddy is still flying his AxeEZ in his house, sometimes unmanned. I just told him to move the servo link wires on his AxeCP in one hole, and to drill them out with a .055 bit which I gave him. A minor adjustment in the link wires for length had to be made to level the swash, but he noted a big difference in stability. No craziness, and I'm sure he'll have stories to tell me Monday.

Judoka......cool. I started in Judo as did our head instructor in Washington state and his instructor Ed Parker. There's a lot of Judo in Parker's style, but some that haven't cross trained like I have don't see it. But it lays the principles for a lot of our moves.

Thanks for posting.

Ed

[Iceman140]

Anyone interested in this hobby that doesn't want to build and is interested in an RTF but wants a quality built machine, I've got just the beast for you. Recently saw a TRex 600 electric RTF, quality built and yes Ready to Fly. The catch? $2000.00. Don't remember if shipping was free. :mrgreen:

One of the Hobby......com sites had it.

Ed

[checkup]

I am a newbie. I am right now in my "crash a lot"-phase :thumbup: And let me bring up some points which have not appeared to this point in this thread.

First one: Your friend/boss/colleague has one and tells you about it, or even better, you see him with it. What your gonna do?

-> You go the next shop and by one that is totally overpriced, last years model and you don't even know how to get the sticks on the TX right.

That was my first experience. I crashed, ordered spare parts, repaired for about 5 hours (it was my first repair, understanding the thing was a big part of it :mrgreen:). I never got that heli back to a state where it could fly because i learned my first lesson:

Tail rotors driven by the main engine through an axle/shaft are bad. Belts may be fine, but shafts suck big time! When the power reaches the tail it has passed somehwat 5-6 gears. If one gear is to tight, if one is too lose, if one ball-bearing is missing -> it just won't work.

So i knew some more now and got the successor of my heli from ebay for less than half the price of my first one. Way better. I still crash, yes. But the repairs are easier and cheaper with the new one.

_Today_ i learned what the collective pitch is and how to use it and how it affects my heli. My tests and follwing flights cost me 2 main blade sets! (about 20 euros).

But i learn, day by day i learn more and get better. And what can you see on my example? The first decision you make will mostly be wrong! You just can't help it. If you don't wanna learn and put time and money in it, go play nintendo...

I decided for the helis. And i do (and will :mrgreen:) not regret it.

What the experts here really mean is, that noobs need _guidance_. When they say "buy a bigger heli", they mean a heli which can be set up "right". But in the same way, without a guide, it can be set up horribly wrong.

We fail on a TRex as we fail on a Walkera. And if you don't have an expert in reach, you have to learn it by yourself (this is what i do). Think about what i learned today (collective pitch), and what i would have done to a TRex :nanabobo

best regards from germany to you guys. i really like the forum.

[cbdane]

Seeker-

You a funny one indeed. :lolol

Capacitance in a high frequency communication wire is called leftover signal to us data guys. And at 300 plus pulses a second to a digital servo, I want my signal to end when I want it to. Two electrical conductors separated by an insulator is a basic description of a capacitor. Vary the chemical comp of the insulator and you can vary the capacitance. Clear as Mud? :lol:

More important is to isolate your control wires from high current sources like a 11.1 volt 20A BL motor. Ty wrapping servo wires close to or with the motor wires is a definate no-no. Especially with high signal counts and coded signals to gyros. Bundling up excess servo wires in a ball and kinking the heck outta them with a ultra tight ty wrap ain't gonna help your flying or diagnosing either. Hurried wiring can cause bent or loose connections too, as will not following Finless's soldering videos. :mrgreen:

So knowing a little about correct and neat wiring practices is indeed more important IMHO than knowing all the ins and outs of electronics.

By the way. If you should happen to have an extra 13 terabyte harddrive you ain't using, I'll buy it off you if the price is right. I need it for my personal crash photos. I have lots of crashes..........and thus lots of photos... some for me....some for the insurance guys and court officials. :lolol

LET's FLY!!!!!! :fly :fly :fly :fly

Ed

Disagree with most everything you've said so far including buying a small, cheap RTF to get started and about your funny ideas about cross talk. Oh, well, like you said. Let's fly!!

[Iceman140]

cbdane-

Hey thanks for posting that. Why don't you ask Barracuda what he thinks now about the RTF I have. You can read his comments on RCUniverse. I think impressed was a word he used. I only advocate 2 RTF's, and like most here that disagree with me, you fail to read that any heli built by anyone but yourself and built of good quality standards, make it an RTF, READY TO FLY. I don't care if it costs $200 or $2000. The RTF thing is still something I support for people who can't or don't want to build. You don't want an RTF, don't buy one.

I only posted the crosstalk thing as an example of electronics. Not that the frequencies on a heli are high enough to worry about. If you have any idea what crosstalk is, you'd know that I know a little about computer networking. But hey, I've only done it for 10 years since June 1997, run a few high profile jobs, and taught communications for the IBEW here in MA. But you're right, I know nothing about electronics, and thanks again for pointing that out.

[Iceman140]

checkup-

Glad to hear you're having fun in Germany. I was never much good at Nintendo, so I chose a lot of hands on hobbies. I've always been interested in how things are made since I was a kid, so helis were the ultimate challenge I could find in flight so far. I least that I could afford. My buddy here still shows people how his Axe EZ is trimmed out so good that it will hover unmanned until the battery runs out.

You're right about the guide thing. If someone is not familiar with build mechanics, all helis he puts together will go wrong and unfortunately he may not know why. ANother friend of mine is learning helis with his wallet at the ready every week. Not the way I prefer to learn. A simple $90 kit is now over $1200 with parts, radio, upgrades, changes in design that either work or don't, and a lot of frustration. A newbie wants to learn this way, that's fine with me.

RCUniverse has a 70 plus page forum dedicated to the Helimax AxeCP alone. I only know 2 RTFs myself that I know fly well. Both HeliMax AxeCP and AxeEz have sucess stories. And after you learn the basics of flying, you can modify them or not. It's up to the person behind the sticks. I'm glad I'm still allowed in this country to make that decision on my own. Some experts may not agree with my decision, but I'm going to have fun anyway.

Keep flying buddy !!!!!

[bullaculla]

Anyone interested in this hobby that doesn't want to build and is interested in an RTF but wants a quality built machine, I've got just the beast for you. Recently saw a TRex 600 electric RTF, quality built and yes Ready to Fly. The catch? $2000.00. Don't remember if shipping was free. :mrgreen:

One of the Hobby......com sites had it.

Ed

You can buy almost any helicopter RTF for an additional fee. The trex 600 RTF is probably built and tested by a hobbyshop and they will build it to your specs. They do not come from the factory RTF. If you go the helihobby.com, they offer this service on their products too.

Also, I have both the Axe EZ and 2 blade CX2s, and i think they are very similar, I like the quality of the CX2 over the rough finish of the EZ, but out of the box, the EZ seems to have more action which makes it fun.

[brunobl]

Hi Iceman,

I'm new to RC Helis, but have 10 years experience in high frequency communications involving computer and audio/video and telephone network installations. I also have 12 years experience in electro-mechanics which is what I do now for a living.

As often happens when transferring experience between technologies, some of that previous experience translates, some doesn't. Care should be taken not to assume things in RC just because they are a certain way in other areas. On a side note I find it interesting that HF would be used for comminication in computer and audio/video and telephone network installations?

Experience has shown that ferrite beads do improve resistance to RFI on those microelectric helis. Granted, I don't use ferrite beads in my microelectric, but then again it is the indoor-only kind, so its receiver always sees a fairly strong signal from the Tx.

My real worry is RFI from the spark ignition in my gasser heli, but I am using shielded cable for that and so far have not had a problem. But that is another story.

Have fun with RC helis, I'm sure you are going to enjoy the hobby.

[cholyoake]

im just going to throw in my opinion here now...

my first helicopter was a hirobo xrb lama. i always wanted to get into helicopters, but had no idea where to buy them, what was involved with helicopters and, probably most of all, i thought they would be too hard to fly (before i ever attempted to fly one). anyway, i joined a small aeroplane club that flew rubber band powerd aeroplanes (that was really boring) but, there was a guy who owned a hobby shop who bought along an xrb lama to let people fly it. anyway he asked me if i wanted to fly (that was a big surprise at the time). so anyway, i tried to fly it (and failed, obviousley as it was my first time flying) but it got me instantly hooked. then i saved all my money from then on to get the lama (i think i was about 12-13 at the time, so there was no way i could afford anything like a t-rex) and about 3 months later, i got it. i started flying, and got confident in tail in, started to learn side in but got really bored with it and let it collect dust for about two years.
then i decided i wanted to get a new, better helicopter. anyway, after deciding i wanted a t-rex 450, i found helifreak when searching for t-rex video's on google and learned everything i needed to know and got it with good stuf (hs 65mg's, 401 gyro... etc). anyway, when i first started it up and hoverd with it, it flew exactly the same as the xrb lama. the only diffrence was the collective would make the helicopter go up faster, the tail didnt drift, and the tail could also spin faster.

so anyway, from that point of view i was very happy with my cheap rtf heli, but if i was planning on staying in the hobby, and not just wanting to try it out, it would have been cheaper if i just got the t-rex as my first heli and ignored the lama. but at the time it took me 3 months just so save the small ammount of money it costed to get the "cheap" helicopter. if i had wanted a t-rex 450, it would have taken closer to a year or more.

so after all that, im not really sure if the cheap helicopter was worth it or not. i definetly dont think it was a bad desicion, just not sure if it was good.

so i guess that sort of agrees with what people have been saying? if you have previous experiense/you know you are going to stay in the hobby, get the biggest helicopter you can afford. but if you have a limited budget (like i did) or unsure if you want to drop $1200 in a t-rex, then a cheap rtf helicopter that flys well is not a bad idea. maybe?

[rabidguineapig]

The only problem is there arent too many cheap rtf helis that fly well

[Iceman140]

The only problem is there arent too many cheap rtf helis that fly well

You're right absolutely. That's why I think it's a good idea to list the RTFs that fly well. Anyone besides me notice that side by side the AxeCp is not much smaller than a TRex 450? So the bigger heli thing doesn't apply as much as some might think. An EFlite Blade CP weighs 10.5 oz with battery. An AxeCP weighs in excess of 17oz. My Dragonus II comes in around 27oz. I can see why a Blade CP is so touchy and in a decent wind the Axe is too. But my Dragonus is coming in at around $700.

I've seen a Helimax MX400 trimmed out good enough to almost fly itself. I've also seen helis that did fly themselves because the electronics were dialed in so fine that pilot input was almost not needed to hover. But is that the way to learn to fly? Not in my opinion. I would like a stable heli but not one that flys without me. Again there wouldn't be 70 plus pages on RCUniverse.com devoted to the AxeCP if it didn't fly. Nobody would want to read that many horror stories, let alone write them. My kids are great at video games, me not so good. I don't condemn video games based on my inability to work with them. I bought my first heli because I wanted to fly it, not build it, and I felt that there might be a few more people around that feel the same. I built my Dragonus just to prove I could and quiet the few in here that told me I had to in order to understand anything about helis. I did it and it still wasn't enough for them so I go back to doing what I want me to do, which is helping others and supporting whatever decision they choose to make. Finless says he's not here to tell us what to buy, but rather to help us with what we bought. I think that's a great attitude. I'm just sorry it's not catchy.

Thanks for responding guys and keep flying!!!!

[Iceman140]

Hi Iceman,



As often happens when transferring experience between technologies, some of that previous experience translates, some doesn't. Care should be taken not to assume things in RC just because they are a certain way in other areas. On a side note I find it interesting that HF would be used for comminication in computer and audio/video and telephone network installations?

Experience has shown that ferrite beads do improve resistance to RFI on those microelectric helis. Granted, I don't use ferrite beads in my microelectric, but then again it is the indoor-only kind, so its receiver always sees a fairly strong signal from the Tx.

My real worry is RFI from the spark ignition in my gasser heli, but I am using shielded cable for that and so far have not had a problem. But that is another story.

Have fun with RC helis, I'm sure you are going to enjoy the hobby.

My original intention in writing about the ferrite beads was because someone told me the ESC would interfere with my receiver. On an AxeCP the stock ESC is ty wrapped back to back with the receiver, no way you could get more interference then that so I said I didn't needed it in my situation. That was all . Someone else here took it to themselves that I said ferrite beads were never needed. I never said that, it was just an example that not all advice applies equally well in all situations. But I got beat over the head for it and that's that.

I don't understand the question mark after the HF and computer question. I'm guessing your HF means High Frequency, and I guessing you don't think HF is used in computers and telephone networks?
Category six comp wiring is called Gigaspeed. T1 and T3 phone lines are very high frequency as well as DSL and cable's broadband. Again the high frequency and crosstalk info I mentioned was simply to prove that I could make an electronics decision on my own, based on my own experience, and an example that someone doesn't always have to follow the advice of someone else claiming to be an expert. Hopefully we all make decisions based on our personal experiences and don't follow like sheep.

Ok....back to flying. Thanks for replying.

[vteknical]

Cliff notes to the 9 pages essay and little extra.

O.k. I'm a licensed plumber and I've laid more pipe to go around the world 2x(Kidding Iceman)and no I'm not a plumber but I do like laying pipe.

Buy the best with what you can afford

Your learning curve is directly linked to what you buy

Bigger=more stable

My advice to a complete Newbie based on my 2 1/2 years in Heli's. Buy a cheap counter-rotating heli, lama, CX, whatever. If you are bitten by the bug and want to continue 1st establish a budget.

Deep pockets:
And absolutely know the Heli's are for you. Buy a simulator(your choice)and buy a decent 450 or larger heli. Practicing on the sim will expediate hand eye coordination at the same time don't pack away the counter-rotating heli yet, use it for orientation training. Once your comfortable hovering with the sim and really comfortable with the cx, then I would bust out the big dog.

200.00-300.00 Fight urge to buy a cheap ready to die(i mean fly)helicopters. Instead buy a simulator. Remember you still have the CX to putz around with.

300-400 now your taking about blinged out ready to fly helicopters, fight the urge stick with your simulator

400-500 The only one I would personally buy is the blade 400(Due late this year)

500-700 Entry Level Build your own heli or ARF T-rex 450sa, HDX450, Dragonus, mx400, DX6, battery, charger

Entry level=low priced intitial kit cost, entry level electronics(gyros, servos, batteries chargers, etc)

My advice to the newbie in the 500-700 range, wait until you can afford to be in the 700-900 range or step down to the 400-500 range with the blade 400. You will eventually wind up buying a better gyro, servos, charger, kit not so much. At least with the Blade 400 the radio is not a p.o.s

700-900 range Entry level 500's, mid to upper level 450's or used 30, 50, and 60 nitros

700-900 range is realistically where I wish I would of started at. Hind site is always 20/20

1000 and up I think your going to have to do your homework on what's best suited for you.

My Helicopter purchases and feelings
Blade CX=bitter sweet purchase got me hooked into the hobby. Good for slow paced live nose in coordination.

Blade CP=Regret it but still got me hooked because I love tinkering around with broken things. Not a real good newbie helicopter unless it's dialed in perfect. Problem is newbies don't have enough mechanical setup experience or have developed enough feeling to fine tune it. So forget about. Remember this list's intent is to share my experience with total newbies in hopes they avoid some of my pitfalls.

Walkera 60B=Big Regret, more so than the Blade cp. This thing was a nightmare, end of story.

HDX450=No regrets bought a DX7, DS285's, DS3400, G500, Cellpro charger.
Eventually every HDX450 will morph into a T-rex Se or SEV2 with an HDX superframe. I had very little quality issues, followed Bob's videos and did a quantum leap in my learning process. Super big score!

This was the helicopter that reaffirmed that all my other heli purchase were done in vain!

T-rex 600n=no regrets except for the fact that damn this hobby is now costing some serious coin. Like I said earlier bigger=more stable. I changed my whole view after flying a 50 size heli and wished I would of started with a 50 instead, unfortunately we don't know what we don't know.

It's just a matter of time and money in buying a big bird for those of you that own 300-450 size helicopter and truly love this hobby. I guarantee it!

This is merely my experience take it for what it's worth.

Next Purchase a High quality 500 size electric, eyeballing the Mikado lineup

Regards,
Victor

[Iceman140]

Victor-

Great post. My thoughts exactly. Thanks for the time it took to list your experiences for us. A sim is definately an invaluable tool.

Ed

[istandalone]

You can adjust RTF's simply by moving the servo link wires to a hole closer to the hub. Then they will fly with less response. Almost like flying with less pitch which is what Finless advises newbies to do.


so i can do this to my axe cp to "tame" her down a tad? this is my first heli, and i'm getting pretty good at hovering, until wind picks up that is. it's just so very touchy.

[vteknical]

Moving the linkages in, you'll get more resolution with less throw, which will yield a noticeable difference.

Personally I would try adding flybar weights first to tame the cyclic response. I'm not too familiar with the axe model but I believe it does not have any. If it does you can always add another pair.

If you are not familiar with flybar weights, they are collars that slide on your flybar in between the paddle and center hub. You can adjust the responsiveness by sliding the weight closer to center hub(more responsive) or out the paddles(less responsive). Cost a couple bucks.

[Iceman140]

Moving the linkages in, you'll get more resolution with less throw, which will yield a noticeable difference.

Personally I would try adding flybar weights first to tame the cyclic response. I'm not too familiar with the axe model but I believe it does not have any. If it does you can always add another pair.

If you are not familiar with flybar weights, they are collars that slide on your flybar in between the paddle and center hub. You can adjust the responsiveness by sliding the weight closer to center hub(more responsive) or out the paddles(less responsive). Cost a couple bucks.

Absolutely go with the flybar weights as your first step in taming the beast. I may have jumped the gun a little when suggesting the linkage method. A person absolutely new to helis might not set the swash level on the right radio setting for the AxeCP. My bad. Should have suggested the easier route first. There are 2 ways to set the servo link arms on the AxeCP. One on normal radio mode and another setting when doing it with idle up mode.

Anyway, be sure to disconnect your motor leads when checking servo movement with the tx, and also set rudder trim all the way to the left so the tail motor won't power up if you move the heli to get a better viewing angle and have the gyro power up the tail motor by mistake. OUCH!!!!! Ask me how I know. Remember too, the AxeCP is set up to fly 3D right from the factory so it's definately going to be touchy. You can't fly 3D with a sluggish heli, at least not very well.

[istandalone]

nice, co-incedence. i just ordered and received more weights!! i'll try that method today, and well as the linkage adjustment to compair. this is my first heli, but i've been into r/c for a long long time, and i'm spot-on when leveling my swash and such. the axe manual makes it very easy to make sure you're trimmed out right. swash level with main frame, and flybar paddles level with flybar carrier. i'll mess around with it today, and post back my results for other axe newbies to consider. thanks!

[TMartin]

Well first of all I want to say this is my first post. I have been reading here for a while and have found it very interesting.
I am into RC have a couple of boats, RC car/truck, and one plane. Have never flown the plane and have had it for 3 or 4 years. I just seem to like the helis. My first heli was a fixed pitch called a Hoverstar and it was a kit. I felt I could learn with this machine. I cost me around 500 or more (don’t know the exact numbers) to get together and set up. Well needles to say 2nd time out it was totaled. My wife said wish I had the video camera for that. Now the radio and servos are in the plane (which has not been flown yet).
SO I mess around with my car, trunk, and boats for a few years but I still want a heli. I got me a sim (Real Flight G2) and started to learn on there for my plane. Then start messing around with the heli’s. Took me a few weeks to get the hang of it but I started to get pretty good (IMO). Now I have bought my 2nd heli A Hummingbird V4 RTF. With out the sim time I don’t feel I would have learned to fly it. I have not had many crashes and have had it for about a year. I am just now getting new main blades and tail blades ($19.00 with shipping).This is after 20 – 25 flights I think this comes out to around $1.00 a flight.
The reason I have gone this way is cost. I can’t just go out and get a 1200 -2000 heli. I was hurt on the job and have just got back to work regular. Was off work for 6 years.
Now I am looking at a Honey Bee King V2 RTF on EBay for $109.00 + 40.00 shipping.
I don’t know how good this heli is but it is one I can afford at this time. I like the RTF because of time. I would rather have it come that way and just fly at this time. When things get better for me I would love to get a gasser.
Just thought I would say RTF has worked for me.
(I also have a havoc which I love flying around the living room, But this probably don’t count)
Lots of good info here and loved the 2006 & 07 DVD.

Tim:mrgreen:

[istandalone]

the less expensive rtf's are def a good thing for the budget minded person, or someone who doesn't have time to build. my first heli was/is a rtf, axe cp and i wish (this is just me, my opinion/view) that i had gotten a kit, or at least an arf so i could have seen more of how it works, and had a better understanding of it. now i kick myself in the ass because as much as i've spent on the axe due to learning crashes (is that like the scabs you get on your knees from falling off a bike while learning lol?) i could have had a trex 450. i've def resigned myself to breaking into $savings and getting a trex 450, or a hurricane 550. too many choices......

[k94max]

Istandalone, I am having the SAME thoughts as you. First heli is the Axe and now considering the TREX or the Hurricane 550. :lol: Man, I am glad I am not the only one that feels like I do. I will try to keep up and see what you decide to get. Just today I started considering the Raptor 50. My interest goes towards Scale flight rather than 3D. I swear, I had an easier time deciding to get married 27 yrs ago than I do about what heli to buy next. I do believe whatever route I take I want a kit this time. I remember building my plane many moons ago and I think I enjoyed the build more so than flying the thing.

[Iceman140]

Well first of all I want to say this is my first post. I have been reading here for a while and have found it very interesting.
I am into RC have a couple of boats, RC car/truck, and one plane. Have never flown the plane and have had it for 3 or 4 years. I just seem to like the helis. My first heli was a fixed pitch called a Hoverstar and it was a kit. I felt I could learn with this machine. I cost me around 500 or more (don’t know the exact numbers) to get together and set up. Well needles to say 2nd time out it was totaled. My wife said wish I had the video camera for that. Now the radio and servos are in the plane (which has not been flown yet).
SO I mess around with my car, trunk, and boats for a few years but I still want a heli. I got me a sim (Real Flight G2) and started to learn on there for my plane. Then start messing around with the heli’s. Took me a few weeks to get the hang of it but I started to get pretty good (IMO). Now I have bought my 2nd heli A Hummingbird V4 RTF. With out the sim time I don’t feel I would have learned to fly it. I have not had many crashes and have had it for about a year. I am just now getting new main blades and tail blades ($19.00 with shipping).This is after 20 – 25 flights I think this comes out to around $1.00 a flight.
The reason I have gone this way is cost. I can’t just go out and get a 1200 -2000 heli. I was hurt on the job and have just got back to work regular. Was off work for 6 years.
Now I am looking at a Honey Bee King V2 RTF on EBay for $109.00 + 40.00 shipping.
I don’t know how good this heli is but it is one I can afford at this time. I like the RTF because of time. I would rather have it come that way and just fly at this time. When things get better for me I would love to get a gasser.
Just thought I would say RTF has worked for me.
(I also have a havoc which I love flying around the living room, But this probably don’t count)
Lots of good info here and loved the 2006 & 07 DVD.

Tim:mrgreen:

Hey TMartin-

That's what this thread is all about. Listen to the experts, decide how it applies in your personal situation, and make the best decision you can based on your personal experience and abilities and budget. I work with a great mechanic on the job. He absolutely hates the idea of building his own heli right now. Maybe later, but not now. If he could get a Raptor 50 RTF, I'm sure he'd be happy to get it. Some of us really don't like doing the same work at home that we just did at work. My buddy still flys his AxeEZ around his house from room to room. And he's having a blast doing it. I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the hobby. Keep it up, and when you're ready, move up to something bigger if you want, but always have fun doing it.

Ed

[Iceman140]

the less expensive rtf's are def a good thing for the budget minded person, or someone who doesn't have time to build. my first heli was/is a rtf, axe cp and i wish (this is just me, my opinion/view) that i had gotten a kit, or at least an arf so i could have seen more of how it works, and had a better understanding of it. now i kick myself in the ass because as much as i've spent on the axe due to learning crashes (is that like the scabs you get on your knees from falling off a bike while learning lol?) i could have had a trex 450. i've def resigned myself to breaking into $savings and getting a trex 450, or a hurricane 550. too many choices......

istandalone-

A lot of good kits out there. My Dragonus II Plus came 95% unassembled. Some of the kits out there are ARF 90% done before you open the box. Not a lot of learning there. Trex 450 sure has a big following and a lot of replacement part from a lot of companies. There are a few diferences between the Dragonus II and Trex so not all parts are interchangable, but they are very similiar helis. Let us know what you find and decide on. Keep flying!!!!

Ed