Newbies-A little note on "Experts"

[istandalone]

after much tearing my hair out, i order this:http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0161p?&I=LZ0429**

i'm still probly gonna get a 500 or 550 soon enough, but i've been a tower customer for years, and they treat me right. never had even one issue with them. plus i had a $200 credit with them from some returned merchandise. i've heard alot of good things about that bird, and a few bad ones too. but i do know that if there is a problem with quality, i'll return the bird and keep the rest. who ever said that heli's are like pringles potatoe chips was right- you can't have just one.
oh, this is an arf, but i intend to dis-assemble most of it and re-build just to gain some working knowledge of the model.

[Iceman140]

istandalone-

Very nice choice. Tower is very good with product and prices, especially when they give $20 off $50 orders. :>) When I bought my first RC plane the LHS thought I was nuts cause I said I planned on smashing it beyond recognition. Never too many planes either.

Ed

[k94max]

Istandalone, Congrats on the heli. I will be interested on your build and flying experiences. I have considered that model also so therein lies my interest along with the normal interest in a fellow hobbyist getting a new "toy" to play with. :lol:

[istandalone]

she'll be here tomorrow, so well see how she looks. probly won't be able to tear into it until the weekend so probly no fly until next week. i'll be sure to post back how it looks.

[istandalone]

well, it's in!! looks to be a very nice arf for the $. the quality is way way higher then that of the axe cp. now i've got to figure out how to use the radio, gyro and esc. all new to me, being that all my other models (cars, trucks) have been rtr's. more to come....

[Iceman140]

istandalone-

Sounds like a good heli. How much of this ARF is assembled? Is the head already put together? Do you have to build the fuselage from scratch? I'm just curious so we can tell someone else later that may be looking at this one.

Have fun!!!

Ed

[istandalone]

they claim it's 90% assembled, but it's more like 75 to 80%. the head is fully put together, as is the fuselage. basically i need to install the tail stabilizer (horizontal), boom supports, all electronics, blades, and other misc little things. i'll guess maybe 6 hours of work, and that's going slow. i was gonna dismantle it and re-build just for grins, but i want to fly dammnit. the canopy is plain white with a separate windshield to screw on. gonna have to dig out the airbrush me thinks!! also i have to fashion some training gear, just because i don't trust myself. just looking at this thing gives me the shakes. going to start the build in a minute, so i'll post some pics and other tidbits in a new thread.

[brunobl]

I don't understand the question mark after the HF and computer question. I'm guessing your HF means High Frequency, and I guessing you don't think HF is used in computers and telephone networks?
Category six comp wiring is called Gigaspeed. T1 and T3 phone lines are very high frequency as well as DSL and cable's broadband.

Yes, I meant High Frequency. I thought it was strange to transmit data over the air below 30 MHz (yes they do transmit weather FAX and other interesting things in HF but at a terribly low throughput). I wrongly assumed you were talking about wireless broadcasting in HF bands, as opposed to HF being present in the cabling which I now see that was what you meant.

[ntwaddell]

My newbie experience consisted of a used kyosho concept. it was already put together, and something would fall apart everytime i would fly. i dont think i could make it through one tank without something falling out. that did not last for long, once i realized I think i could actually grasp the hobby, i ordered a raptor 60 v2 within the week :) I put it together myself, which I think was way better, since i know how everything was put together, and if there is actually loc-tite on it :P

[Iceman140]

brunobl-

This thread has gone in so many directions I can understand why we're getting confused as to what we're all saying. Everything's cool though. Thanks for replying.

Keep flyin'!!!

Ed

[kygirl]

Iceman,
I'm just a beginner as well. I have an Axe CP too and I must say, I like it. I've only hovered it a few times but, I now realize the difference in flying on the sim and flying my Axe. My boyfriend is what you would call an 'expert', he flies Raptors. Although my Axe was already put together when we purchased it, I watch him work on his Raptors to help prepare me to moving to a bigger heli. An Axe is kind of difficult to fly due to the size but, I would rather start out with something really hard so when I move to a bigger heli it'll be easier to fly. I honestly don't see how your degrees can help you much? I also don't understand why you're not really in to building a heli? It's nice that you bought an Axe for a beginner but you do need to know how to put a heli together due to the fact that when you crash you're going to have to fix it. I know you said that when you crash and take your heli apart you can remember how it goes back together but, I feel that learning how everything works while putting it together helps you to really understand what everything does. Just my opinion though, I'm not an expert...only a beginner. Hope no one is offended. God bless :-)

[bullaculla]

I totally agree Kygirl ;)
does your BF post here?

[Iceman140]

Kygirl-

Hey no offense taken in any way. In addition to my electronics background, I've been an electro-mechanic since 1984. I've worked on machinery far more complicated than an RC heli. Not bragging, but when I worked at Walt Disney World I actually helped their maintenance team diagnose one of their new electric monorail trains that kept going into E-Stop. Seems the "Expert" that designed it failed to include a deadman bypass circuit that was on the older trains. Newer trains have a twist handle that engages a micro switch in the base. After driving the train for half a run I could hear the click of the loose micro switch and told them what the problem was and it went to shop.

I'm glad to hear you're into heli now. Especially as a couple. That's important. It's only a matter of trimming out the Axe and it will be stable. Never as much as a Raptor 50 or TRex 600, but stable enough to learn. Ask your boyfriend for us how much a fully tricked out 3D competition ready Raptor would cost. I'm just curious.

As far as me building ......... I do it all day, and it basically bores me to death. I'm devoting most of my time now to my MA training, where I get to help others learn, which is far more meaningful to me than actually doing myself. I've been there done that, and my nature is to help other get here and do this. :>)

Keep flying guys.....thanks again KYGirl

Ed

ps, the monorail thingy is a great example of how simple things can drag a $6 million piece of equipment to it's knees so to speak. Loose mounting bolts on a 15 cent micro switch that weren't loctited. (Is loctited a word?) Following correct assembly procedures everytime is a must.

[Iceman140]

"Iceman, it's clear to me that you're more interested in your 'degrees' than actually learning to fly a heli. If you think that your 'idea' is so much better than learning how to build the heli and you don't understand the difference in flying on the sim and actually flying, that's fine. Why did you even post? If you're such an 'expert' then you shouldn't need any advice. But, it will be a wake up call for you when you figure out the difference in reality and the sim as well as building a heli. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but, in order to know how something works I feel that you need to get in and get technical. For example, I'm a CNA working on my RN license. Now, if I had just read about nursing and didn't do any clinicals or pay attention to my patients files as well as paid attention to them, do you think that I would have passed my exam? No. Helis are like people....you have to understand how they work. Another example, if I had taken a patient oatmeal for breakfast and they were violent and didn't like oatmeal, they would've thrown it in my face. If you don't understand how to put your equipment together and exactly what everything does, it's going to blow up in your face. Hope I didn't offend anyone. God bless!" Quote from KYGirl 9/23/07 12:28 AM

Lot's of things are not clear to you.

1. I've been to college but have no "Degree"
2. Been in the dirt and mud of construction and electronics since 1984
3. I have more than helis going on in my life right now, but I still know what I'm talking about.
(worked in a nursing home and just put my Mom in a dementia ward. Yeah I understand the oatmeal thing)
4. Whether I have the time or not to fly is up to me. Same goes for when I want to help.
5. I'll post when and where I want to.
6. You're being a little judgemental, text has no flavor. You can't sense the tone of my voice.
7. I'm not asking for advice in here. Not my intention in the first place.
8. I'm hired to make sure things don't blow up in anybody's face, yours included.

Next time you go to work and you're standing in the building, you might want to picture me going to first aid cause I cut myself, again, putting your building together so sometime in the future you can dodge flying oatmeal. It's not as glamorous as you think.

Did you actually read ALL 12 pages? If you did, you might want to read them again. If you met me in person you would never believe I was the same person you've made me up to be. Again, internet texting sucks. I've flown my RTF and I've built one. To me it's not a big deal. I'm not apollogising for my abilities, but I'm willing to help others if they need it. Without criticism.

And last but not least,as we tell all our MA students, relax and breathe.

No offense taken.............

eD (Doh!!!! Stupid caps key again!!)

ps, your post showed up in my email but not on this site. I can edit this post to non-existance if you want me to. My experience with RN's is that they're always PO'd at the world. Must be a job thing. I understand if that is the case. Working in a nursing home is an experience I'll never forget. I've talked to my head instructor and seems we have no immediate defense for flying oatmeal. But we're workin' on it. I still say nursing home oatmeal is only a lethal threat if consumed. Heaven knows it's certainly not hot enough to do serious damage by the time it gets to the resident.

[Mercuriell]

Great thread and an important topic - the mark of a true expert is one who can give advice in the context of who it is aimed at and also be the first to admit that their guidance is not infallible.

There is no single path to 'Nirvana' - each of us makes our own way - it's a bit like offering advice to kids as parents, though we seek to spare them pain and avoid our own mistakes it is in the making of the mistakes that we learn and advance.

Bob's special status is summed up in his signature - not to tell them what to buy but how to utilise what they have.

HF is special as there are people with very deep specialised knowledge from other fields that sometime bear on a heli problem (I enjoyed iceman's tale of the bad batch cable insulation) and others who have a long and huge breadth of experience - it's a bit like the Borg Collective (pun intended) as a whole interactive matrix we can address and make some inroads into almost any heli problem.

I have some martial art experience and interest in meaning of life and Buddhism and for me the integrated whole of understanding, building and flying helis has some parallels with both of these.

Sensei: When you truly understand how 1000 parts moving in formation keeps heli flying - then you will have truly learned !!

KYGirl - don't delete your posts :) - we all say things that don't come out the way we intended but there's always the opportunity to redress later and all comments have some value in the greater context of things - great handle by the way - take it comes from your nursing experience! As for all RNs being p**d off - I think that's a reflection of the way health care has gone and the pressure that come now from so many different directions.

Anyway hope not to have hijacked the thread too uselessly - Good on'ya mates!

[Iceman140]

John thanks for posting that. I had a feeling later that a post had been deleted. What she said was not offensive to me. Just made me feel she misunderstood my intent.

In the world of helis, someone's superior hand-eye coordination or their superior mechanical ability will allow them to suceed in flying or building where others might not. In MA, my size and strength means I can actually screw up a defense exercise and still have sucess. Lighter and less strong individuals must have their basics almost perfect to pull off the same exercise. In helping these students, usually 5ft 120lb women, achieve sucess, I have to break down everything I do so they can understand what basics they're missing. We both learn as a result. I take my method of wiring for granted sometimes, but when I point out faulty wiring to those with less experience, it helps me learn too. Too many times people take wire connections for granted, a BASIC in heli building.

In RCUniverse, with 330,000+ members, I've had no problems posting the same info. In Helifreak it's a crapshoot. Fell free to delete the entire thread if you feel it would benefit this site. But I'll still refuse to be led like a sheep. Heck even the Boreans didn't believe the news about the Christ at first. They went home and did research to see if the info was true first. Then when they decided it was true, they choose to believe it. Not before. I'm not getting religious here. If all experts made right decisions we'd still have the Chevy Vega and the Yugo.

As far as the RN thing, the crap they take from the residents, doctors, and aides takes it toll . I was never comfortable seeing an empty bed that was occupied the day before. In a nursing home it meant only one thing. Dealing with that day after day sucks. My hat's off to those who can do it. I couldn't.


Ed

[Mercuriell]

Ed,

Wise words on the MA performance - also applies to helis - a well setup heli can compensate for some degree of dumb thumbing and an adept hand eye coordnated superman can compensate for an out of trim situation.

It's worth a mention that one of the primary ethos' on HF is that WE DO NOT DELETE POSTS and that is made very clear to us by the resident headkickers on appointment as an HF support person !!! Vulgariy or offensive language is sometimes small fonted so as not to be readable unless desired and a thread is very occasionally locked if it's getting too heated and attacks personal. I peruse many forums but HF is my heli home, though geographically remote, due to the quality of posts, yours included :)

The problem in health is that it has become way too politicised and that everyone gets cr*p from everyone else - the process has become more important than the outcome and admins naively believe that pencil whipping tick boxes on a form leads to quality of care - I guess that's an affliction that has affected too many walks of life :(

[Iceman140]

John-

Thank you very much for your input.

I like the idea of the 1000 spinning parts. We know the number is less, but it shows how overwhelming a heli can be at first. I've been told that the brain can think at a rate of250,000 words a minute, but can concentrate on learning only one thing at a time. Learning basics of proper assembly, whether wiring, mechanical assembly, or radio settings takes time. If we try to learn it all at once, it'll take more time. Kinda why I suggested a sim in the first place, especially one that lets you isolate controls so you're only doing one thing at a time. Up/Down...Side/Side....Left/Right. Then combos, building slowly as a newbie. What I didn't take into consideration was the computer upgrade cost that some would need to do to add a sim to their computer. But it's still part of the overall COST of the hobby I think.

Concentrating on only one part of the heli at a time, will greatly speed up diagnosing as well. Check a part, working good, move on. A good way to eliminate problems is never leaving a single part out of alignment or binding or for whatever reason it isn't right. It's hard to get the beast perfect, but you can't ignore fixable things. My friend mentioned earlier really only made it to the 8th grade before life stepped in. But she still built the best weapons guidance systems made for the military because she held to her basics. She didn't understand how they worked, but they worked flawlessly.

Patience is not only a virtue, in this hobby it's a necessity IMHO.

Thanks again,

ED

[randito]

Iceman,

I agree with your post.

I am still a beginner at this hobby. My first real heli was a Raptor 30 I bought in 2000. The guy who helped me build it and was going to help me fly it was killed in an accident before he could help me further. I did the hover thing and crashed it. I went to fix it, but I was intimidated by the size and complexity of the heli. Needless to say it went up on my shelf and stayed there for years. In October of 2005 I went to my local hobby shop to buy some parts for it to see if I can get it together. I noticed the BladeCP on the shelf. I talked to the salesperson who tried to talk me out of buying it. I thought for 240 bucks for everything I could not go wrong...I bought it. I practiced hovering for a month straight. Come December (with training gear) I started some movement side to side stuff. Come Feb 2006 I was able to fly it around in figure eights. Then I got busy at work and put it on the shelf until November of last year. I finally was able to fly it again and also bought the BladeCP pro. Of course I had a few crashes but it was not intimidating to rebuild because it was not a complex machine. I learned to fly them really well, no big 3d stuff, but I can fly them with no problem. I bought the Trex 450 in December and built it. No problems at all. Found a club with Heli pilots close to my home and joined them. They swore once I flew the Trex I would trash the Blades. Well, I've been flying my Tex since Feb 2007 and I still like to fly my 4 ,yes 4, Blades. The Trex is much more stable than the small ones, but learning on the small ones first really helped me when I started flying my Trex. Most of the heli pilots at the field tried the Blades when they first came out and could not control them and got rid of them quickly. They are surprised how well I can control them and that I still like to fly them even after having my Trex. I also fixed my Raptor 30 and can fly it now..no longer am I scared of crashing or rebuilding. Speaking of crashing, I have not had a crash with my BladesCP's in about 7 months and I fly often. My Trexx has never been crashed, I know it might be bad luck to say it, but its true. It is a very nice machine.

To sum it up...I found it much better to start off with the little BladeCP than the Raptor 30 for a number of reasons. Its not daunting, easy to fix, and once you learn to fly them the bigger ones are much easier to handle because they are much more stable. If it had not been for the BladeCP I might have given up on this hobby.

One last thing, simulators are good to learn stick movements and manuevers, but I find it a pain the way the screen changes when you fly off somewhere. It is more challenging on the simulator than real world for me. I think its just the perspective thing where you cant see the whole landscape all the time.

Just my opinion on this subject.

[speed808]

I am still a newbie but have learned the hard way. The I feel like the only way to start is with a simulator. When you can have 10-15 min flights with out ant incidents, you are ready to purchase your new Helicopter. I unfortunately started way wrong.

1) Blade cp pro $250
I never never flew it for longer than a battery would last. After all my replacement parts and hours of repairs I probably had 1 hour of repair time to one minute of flight. My total spent on repairs was nearly $500.
2) Honey bee King on ebay all metal head brush-less motor, esc, and servo's
I then purchased futaba 401 gyro and futaba 6x radio. gyro $150 radio $200
battery charger $50
battery 1300 $50
I liked this helicopter but I didn't like not being able to purchase parts for it at my lhs. Most of it is compatible with the mx400 and trex450 but some parts have to be purchased online like the main gear, that I stripped the second flight.
3)trex 450 sa $200 crashed twice after short flights costing 2 blade sets and a servo stripped. It didn't cost much to setup because I just transfered everything over from my HBK.
After my second crash I finely bought Real Flight G3 and swore to not fly my trex until I could flawlessly fly the sim. One month later I was flying like a champ!!! I don't do any 3d in the real world but I do on the sim. I am still learning how my helicopter flies, so i'll stick to the basic maneuvers for now.

to make a long story short:
1 Simulator
2 Trex 450 or larger. (small heli's are harder to fly and cost more to fix)

I totally agree. I got a Blade CP+ first and its a handful to fly. Then I got a used Trex 450 SE and its a lot easier to fly and surprisingly, its not that expensive to fix. My first crash was around $20 in repairs. And I fly on my Real Flight simulator every day. I hardly fly my Blade CP+ anymore. It can only fly with theres almost no wind, which is not that often in Hawaii.

[kygirl]

Iceman,

It's okay, I don't mind for you reposting what I had deleted. I deleted it because after I read it again I realized that what I was trying to say didn't come out the way I meant it. I'm no expert, I'm just hovering for now...I could NEVER know everything there is to know about flying a heli and didn't mean for my post to make me sound like an arrogant person. Some people are better at mechanics and some are better at flying. Personally, I'm better at flying although I'm picking up on the mechanical stuff and how to put a heli together. I'm just a beginner and didn't know that I wasn't supposed to delete my posts? I thought that's why the 'delete' button was there. I apologize if I offended you or anyone else. Although being a nurse isn't easy, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I love my job and I love helping people. It's kind of depressing watching the residence at times but, if I can make at least one person a day smile then my day hasn't been a total waste. Once again, I apologize for my thoughts sounding different than I had intended. Everyone has their own interests and techniques. It's a hobby, there's no rule that says it has to be done a certain way as long as safety takes place. Good luck to you and your helis! God bless!

[BarracudaHockey]

Don't worry about deleting your own posts.

"We don't delete posts" applies to the support and moderating team here at the HF meaning content isn't censored just because someone doesn't like your opinion. Well duplicate posts and spam are deleted but you have the freedom to speak your mind here without having the posts censored. If you feel something you said is inappropriate feel free to edit or get rid of it, though you run the risk of someone already quoting it for you :)

[Iceman140]

KYGirl-

Absolutely no offense taken. I really hate internet text because we can't tell tone of voice. I like PalTalk because it's Voice over internet and I can tell when someone is serious or kidding.

I seriously appreciate nurses. I seriously understand why the ones I've met or worked with are stressed. My brief dealings with their situation didn't leave me wanting more. My best experience was working at Shriners Hospital in Spfld, MA. I was in the hallway working when all the nurses and aides were rushing around getting hats and coats on all these kids streched out on rolling carts, most in traction. The kids were all excited and for the life of me, I couldn't figure out why. Then a nurse pointed out that it was snowing and most of them had never seen snow before. In all the traction and pain they were in, they still found something to enjoy. Life lesson number 782.

I can't show anyone in here my experience, so I can only tell them. Sometimes it comes off wrong but it's the only way in an internet situation. When I say "I know what I'm talking about", most people don't realise that I only talk about what I know. If I don't know, I say so or ask questions. Experience is only time spent making mistakes and learning from them. This is still a great forum for sharing I think.

Thanks again,

Ed

[pistolero]

Ice
Following this thread has been a gas (nitro) I am a relative NUB but I think still trainable.
After being " on the bench" in RC (back in the days of Pulse control for planks originally) with a short foray into RC cars about 10 years ago. I decided to do what I longed for -fly helicopters-.
Of course I made every mistake in the book-I did not find HF And finless and the rest of the Good people here till ater I had made a purchase.
The Esky RTF honey bee king 2 was my first purchase, three sets of blades, a couple of flybars and lots of fancy language brought me to the realization that I needed a Sim -enter a G3.5- this further convinced me that things were do-able.
The RTF HBK2 has flown but is now awaiting a brushless motor setup. The teething troubles were and are tremendous.
I should have learned
My next purchase was one of the new E-Sky E-Smarts (Good write-up of the high zute unit after I purchased the Cheap seats). Cheap seats are no joy, they leave lots of details hanging.
Now I am really into it
Futaba Fasst 6channel 2.4
Logictech 2100 gyro
futaba digital servos
dn power balance charger
this month will be Batteries. Planning on 2sets of 3s to run in series(I can split them for the 450 class
machine that is some where in my future, (but could use on a Hurricane)

I will not be going to nitro as the fumes would agravate my medical condition.
Pardon the rambling but If I were'nt so stuborn the RTF would have done me in, Only this type of discusion in HF has enabled me to stick with it.

My advice to other NUB's Save youre money, then buy a Hurricane 550, join a club and learn from others who have been there, done that, (some even have the T-shirts so proclaiming). " Help someone else spend their time assembling a Heli if you can. Remember as you get older the smaller parts become even more difficult to find when you "misplace" them. And what you used to do all night, now takes allnight to do.

Thanks for the chance to add my 2cents.

[Iceman140]

pistolero-

Great post! Thanks for sharing that. Glad to hear you're still in this hobby. Surely if a new person has the money for a more elaborate heli, they should go for it, even if someone else has to build it. I've always said, at least I think I said, that not all RTFs are created equal. Some get their first taste with a flyable RTF and are hooked. I've tried many slices of pizza from many different pies in life before I bought a whole pizza from any one place. Know what I mean?

Now see, there's another issue we haven't addressed yet, physical reasons why someone may not be able to go a certain route in the heli hobby. Nitro fumes bother you? No problem. We've got a solution for you, electric. Certain med issues don't allow someone to have the hand skills needed to build, CP for example, again no problem. Have someone build a heli for you. Other than sight, today's technologies allow a huge percentage of the population to get into this hobby. And being a martial artist, I know someplace somehow, someone without sight is flying helis.

I assemble on a formica rollaway I constructed for my shop. I recently added a cheap, $2.20, thin rubber mat I got from Harbor Frieght. Now small parts that used to bounce into the twilightzone, now bearly bounce at all and stay put. Together with a lighted magnifier, and assembly takes on a whole new perspective. Cool deal on the 2.4 GHZ radio. A recent issue of Model Airplane News had an article warning about antenna placement, since the receiving ant has to "see" the transmitter ant and shouldn't be blocked by things like batteries and parts that don't allow Ghz signals to pass through. The main reason for redundant ants on the receiver.

Keep us posted on the new setup. Pics would be nice. Vids if ya got 'em.

Ed