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View Full Version : ATTENTION BEASTX GURU'S.. i need you SOLVED!


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dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 06:14 PM
ok guys i have a good one for ya here....
i have a 450 pro belt drive. i have the beastx module, not the reciever one. i'm using a ds520(brand new) all D/R at set to 100, all travel adjust are set to 100 each way, servo horn is 90 on servo during set up, pitch slider is set to center of shaft. i have equal throw each way. slider is super smooth. i have tried rebinding RX and i have tried resetting the beastx.


whats happening is................................this is funny.........
ONLY during FFF i can not piro to the right(tail left). i can piro to the left with no issue.
i can prio either direction while hovering or slow flight. what happens is during FFF when i attempt to piro right, all that happens is the tail kicks out to the left 90 degrees and doesnt move any further. its like it stalls at that point. i have tried another brand new ds 520 and the same thing. the tail slider moves to the end points each way on the ground. im able to fast piro both directions while at a hover. other then this issue its flies fine.

please help me with this....

sutty
04-10-2012, 06:30 PM
I'm not a pro, but what values do you have for your gain, which light, and where is your parameter d at, which colour? Did you follow the tail tuning sticky at the top of the forum? The sticky gives some great advice with regard to how to set these values optimally?

Cheers

Sutty

dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 06:40 PM
in my dx6i is set to 65 in the gain menu
on the beastx the G light is on.
parameter D is set to red

yes i have followed them and the heli was operating perfect. ive had the beastx on this heli for about 3 months with no issues or crashes. that would cause this. its not everyday im doing FFF piros but i know for a fact that i was able to do them both ways. i also know im SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO.


Sutty, you seems to be a pro with the beastx, so im counting on you to help me with this one

john.hopkins
04-10-2012, 06:43 PM
Im not a pro either, but you need to have 3 to 4 deg pitch to the right on the tail blades. At center stick, I am sure this will fix the issue.

dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 06:46 PM
so are you saying i should set up in rate mode ?

what im saying is absolutly nothing has changed on the heli. i was able to, now im not.

john.hopkins
04-10-2012, 06:55 PM
I am just saying, as far as mechanical setup. When your tail servo is at 90 you tail blades should have about 3 - 4 degrees of pitch to the nose right. I do this on all my helis. No matter if FB or FBL. I never have issues with the tail. Finless bob has a video on setup, where he stresses this important fact. Just trust me and give it a shot, just lengthen or tighten the tail servo push rod to get the 3 - 4 deg. Then redo your travel adjustment to make sure it dosnt bind in either direction. Let us know how you make out..

scott s
04-10-2012, 07:18 PM
Na! I bet it boils down to the same problem that oc tech had here a while back or at least very similar. The bearings are seizing in the tail grips under load so in fff the extra stress on the tail grips is causing a sieze in the the direction of tail movement that puts the extra stress on the tail bladeswhich happens to be a right piro. Have you reversed the tail grips to trailing edge control and tried it (of course you have to change radio and gyro settings to do this) I think align needs to re think there whole tail system anyway,s and no I am not trying to start a war here guy's

sutty
04-10-2012, 07:18 PM
I am just saying, as far as mechanical setup. When your tail servo is at 90 you tail blades should have about 3 - 4 degrees of pitch to the nose right. I do this on all my helis. No matter if FB or FBL. I never have issues with the tail. Finless bob has a video on setup, where he stresses this important fact. Just trust me and give it a shot, just lengthen or tighten the tail servo push rod to get the 3 - 4 deg. Then redo your travel adjustment to make sure it dosnt bind in either direction. Let us know how you make out..

By all means try that, but I don't believe it will help, unless it does it as a result of simply generally having a good fiddle around with things. Modern HH gyros don't really care where their mid point is, as long as the extremes of travel are available, then it can utilise this range of travel, and control the tail correctly. There may arguably be some small difference as a result of the angle to which the servo moves, slightly affecting speed in one direction or another, but who is to say what is a mid point anyway, and why would some virtually unused anti torque setting for that of a gentle hover be the average value that would be chosen? I guess this is a discussion is for another time, but it is rendered moot now since he has confirmed that it used to work.

Since we didn't know at the outset that it used to work, and we do now, I would strongly suggest that you have a mechanical issue that doesn't present itself until under load. A binding grip, a failing bearing, a bent tail output shaft, etc.

Try removing the main and tail blades, and removing your push rod at the servo end. Spin the heli up to a reasonable RPM, taking care not to overspeed things, and then see if your tail mechanics are free by pushing on the pushrod.

If it is super smooth still, under load like that, then try and see how it behaves under the greater load of having the tail blades fitted. Take great care here, as they can apply a serious amount of force to the tail, so you must hold the heli very firmly whilst you test it.

If it is still smooth, see how your servo behaves under load in each direction, by holding it a little. Even though it is new it isn't impossible there is an issue.

See how it goes.

Cheers

Sutty

sutty
04-10-2012, 07:19 PM
lol, scott, beat me to it.

Sut

dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 08:16 PM
sorry guys. had to cut the yard. i will try what sutty is asking first. i have a brand new set of tail grips but its getting dark to try it. but i will leave the old ones on for the spin up test.
i would think this test will not yield anything good as it piros fine at a hover either direction.

dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 08:19 PM
Have you reversed the tail grips to trailing edge control and tried it (of course you have to change radio and gyro settings to do this) I think align needs to re think there whole tail system anyway,s and no I am not trying to start a war here guy's


oddly enough, i did do this, and this is when i noticed the issue. after doing this, this is when i started to really test the tail and compair before and after. once i noticed the issue, i switched it back to leading edge.

dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 08:20 PM
I am just saying, as far as mechanical setup. When your tail servo is at 90 you tail blades should have about 3 - 4 degrees of pitch to the nose right. I do this on all my helis. No matter if FB or FBL. I never have issues with the tail. Finless bob has a video on setup, where he stresses this important fact. Just trust me and give it a shot, just lengthen or tighten the tail servo push rod to get the 3 - 4 deg. Then redo your travel adjustment to make sure it dosnt bind in either direction. Let us know how you make out..


john, im gonna give your idea a go to. im up for any trick in the bag. suck im outta day light.

sutty
04-10-2012, 08:47 PM
Well I agree it might not reveal anything, since it works in a hover, but there must be something that has gone wrong, so it might be worth a try. What I was thinking is you might be able to feel it stiffening up to the limits of the servo's torque. In ff it goes beyond what the servo can do, and so it reveals itself in flight. I would also ask why did you try a physical configuration change to the flip grip mod when it was already working before without it. Clearly something has changed. Incidentally, I have tried the flip grip mod to try to improve the tail slightly, and found absolutely no improvement, in fact I ended up convincing myself that is was worse and reverted back.

I mean, if everything works for three months, and then it starts misbehaving, why would you say try longer tail blades, or whatever else, it is the same thing as flipping the grips. No point, even if it is better, it worked before, so it should work now, unless something is now binding, or similar.

Cheers

Sutty

.

dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 09:49 PM
well i spun it up without tail blades on i could feel a difference in the control rod from one side to the other. not in pressure, but you could feel a very small ruffness. i took off the pitch link off the grips and moved them around and felt no roughness. put the pitch links back on and spun it up again. i feel the"roughness" (which is very very slight) more when i push the rod away from the body. which is odd cause thats not the way im having a issue. when the blades are one i did not feel the roughness increase really.
tomorrow i will install the new grips i have and test it out.

dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 09:53 PM
Sutty, im agreeing with you here. everything was fine. then i just saw a thread that said the grip flip mod was the "fix all" "the best thing since slice bread " mod. so i tired it for no other reason of trying it.
im not saying, me doing this caused the issue i have. for all i know i was having the issue before. like i said, its not everyday i do FFF in a straight line and do piros the entire time. But i know i have done it in the past, and i know i cant now.

Well I agree it might not reveal anything, since it works in a hover, but there must be something that has gone wrong, so it might be worth a try. What I was thinking is you might be able to feel it stiffening up to the limits of the servo's torque. In ff it goes beyond what the servo can do, and so it reveals itself in flight. I would also ask why did you try a physical configuration change to the flip grip mod when it was already working before without it. Clearly something has changed. Incidentally, I have tried the flip grip mod to try to improve the tail slightly, and found absolutely no improvement, in fact I ended up convincing myself that is was worse and reverted back.

I mean, if everything works for three months, and then it starts misbehaving, why would you say try longer tail blades, or whatever else, it is the same thing as flipping the grips. No point, even if it is better, it worked before, so it should work now, unless something is now binding, or similar.

Cheers

Sutty

.

sutty
04-10-2012, 09:53 PM
Good luck, I hope the grips solve the issue. Sorry you missed the light tonight. Off to bed for me, getting a little late over here in the uk. :thumbdown:

Cheers

Sutty

nwmtech
04-10-2012, 10:08 PM
Ok, a couple of things come to mind that could cause this:

-Tail grip bearings bad
-Switched to smaller tail blades
-Belt slipping
-Tail servo getting weak (only seen this happen once)

dodgeboy
04-10-2012, 10:22 PM
Ok, a couple of things come to mind that could cause this:

-Tail grip bearings bad
-Switched to smaller tail blades
-Belt slipping
-Tail servo getting weak (only seen this happen once)


belt is good.
blades are the same as before 65mm
i thought it could be a tail servo also. as if it didnt have enough tq. one way. so i bought another tail servo ds520 and had the same issue.
i just put on brand new grips(with new bearings installed) but its dark outside. so tomorrow i will give it a go and report back

nwmtech
04-10-2012, 10:35 PM
was driving and also just thought that if you have lowered your head speed you might not have enough tail authority

KC36330
04-11-2012, 08:28 AM
Check the tail output shaft belt drive pulley. some have a set screw on a flat spot of the tail output shaft, they can loosen and it allows the output shaft to slide left/right on the flat spot (rather then slip around the shaft). when that happens you have rudder control under light load, but under heavy load the whole tail shaft slides (slider hub and all) and it doesn't add pitch to the blades till it hits the end of the flat spot on the shaft in travel.

dodgeboy
04-11-2012, 10:27 AM
was driving and also just thought that if you have lowered your head speed you might not have enough tail authority

headspeed is at 3100 governed

Check the tail output shaft belt drive pulley. some have a set screw on a flat spot of the tail output shaft, they can loosen and it allows the output shaft to slide left/right on the flat spot (rather then slip around the shaft). when that happens you have rudder control under light load, but under heavy load the whole tail shaft slides (slider hub and all) and it doesn't add pitch to the blades till it hits the end of the flat spot on the shaft in travel.


its a align pro tail shaft and the tail drive gear is pressed or even looks to have splines

KC36330
04-11-2012, 10:35 AM
disregard.

Down Low
04-11-2012, 09:24 PM
Is it possible you accidentally put one of the thrust bearings in the wrong way while you were experimenting with the grip flip mod?

dodgeboy
04-11-2012, 09:40 PM
in a 450 ??


no , all i did was remove the pitch link and flip the grip over.
it rained all day today so i was unable to test out the new grips on the tail. will try again tomorrow.

Down Low
04-11-2012, 10:01 PM
Ah! I see, as you can probably tell I am not that familar with the 450. :peace