More Cyclic.

[aramsdell]

What mods are there to get more cyclic throw without binding up the head? Is there a different bell-mixer avail.? I'm running 5S and 11T with 530 Funkey composite blades. I want quicker. This is a fast flying bird but I think the cyclic is a little slower than it could be.

[Coolice]

Hey,

Have you canhged the balls on the inner ring of the swashplate to all medium length ones?
In stock form the Swift comes with two short balls and two medium length fitted to the inner swashplate ring. By substituting the short ones for another set of mediums you increase the control input to the head, hence increasing cyclic power.

I run the above mod on my own Swift and it improves the power greatly.
.

[aramsdell]

No I haven't changed the two shorter balls. They are on the washout links. The flybar control arms will travel enough, as it is set up, to hit the bottom of the blade grips if I program that in. That is static slow spinning on the bench. Will that change at full rpm? I don't want to pop a link off and lose the whole thing in flight.

[Coolice]

Hey.

You do have to check the links after any changes to make sure there is no worry of them popping off, but I have been flying mine this way for some time now without incident.

It will add more travel to your washout links over just using your ATV's and so will liven it up some more.
If you have some of the medium balls lying around try fitting them to see the cange, you can always revert back to the shorter ones.
.

[aramsdell]

I changed the balls yesterday. There were clearance issues with the inside of the outer ring. I Dremel tooled a little off the back of those ball mounting points so now the washout links don't hit. I put some Whiteout on the inside of those outer mounting points to make sure they don't hit in flight. So far so good. I need to do more testing and do the whiteout thing with the flybar control arms to make sure they aren't hitting in the air. The cyclic has livened up a good bit but I need to keep testing so I can get more.

[Coolice]

Hey,

Cool. I cant see where you goit some rubbing on the inner ring of the swash as I haven't with either the stock plastic swash or the upgrade metal one.
You haven't fitted longer balls than the mediums perhaps?

Keep us informed how you get on.
.

[aramsdell]

Coolice, The short ball, used all over the bird, are 6mm from face of flange to end of ball. The long balls are 8 or 8.1 mm. Same used on outside of plastic swash. Is there a 7mm length available?
I need to check this out. When the rotor is at speed, do the flybar control arms not move as much as say when they are on the bench being turned slowly?

[Coolice]

Hey,

I am using the balls which are just over 8mm from mounting flange to end of ball, these are the medium length balls as there are longer and the shorter ones you have spotted on the Swift.

With the rotors turning at full speed the small 3mm flybar may bend inflight and hence not give as strong a cyclic input as you'd like.
I think there is a 4mm flybar conversion being tested which will change this.
.

[aramsdell]

Coolice, I put Whiteout on the top of the links on the flybar control arms. I adjusted my dual rates until I started to get a little chipping in the whiteout. The links are hitting the underside of the blade grips.
I'm thinking of changing the Bell-Mixer arms to an adjustable set. Any suggestions.
What will the difference be , say, if I reduce the length of the flybar-side input and/or increase the length of the direct swash input?

What happens when you decrease the bell-mixer's length on the direct from swash side?

I guess I mean...What does each side do and how does it affect the other side when changed.

Anyone have suggestions here for a part? Raptor perhaps?

I saw some Century scale mechanics in a magazine. It looked as if the mixer might be adjustable by changin links sizes....


EDITED: 10 minutes later now. I just inspected the bird. To me it looks as if shortening side of the mixer that connects down to the swash will result in larger cyclic throw.

Anyone feel free to lend $.02 here.

If this is the case then I need to find mixer bars that are similar to the Swifts. Swifts balls are 28mm center to center with 2 bearings in center and 3mm bolt. Something reasonably similar should work.

[Coolice]

Hey,

Ah yeah, that is one area where you need to watch out for fouling to the underside of the grips. The flybar must be tilting quite a few degree's now to be hitting them?
Perhaps you are a good candidate to fit a 4mm flybar now as that will strengthen an area that could now be defelcting at high paddle angles.

The bell mixers, if you reduce the length on the swash side you will effectiely increase their movement for a given swash plate input, eg. the pushrod will move the grip further.

The only drawback to this is as you are changing to relationship between input and pivot point more power may be needed to move the control, in this case the workload on the servo's may be greater. But I am sure they easily cope ok, in reality you'd only have to make a 0.5~1mm change in ball positions max to see a real change.

The other thing you could change is the mixer arms on the pitch slider, by altering their input and output positions in relation to the flucrum youy can increase or decrease the travel of the control.

I am now trying to rememebr my science days at school, it's all to do with the fulcrum which in essence is the pivot point of a movable arm.
Here is a simple explanation for others, scroll down the PDF file :

http://education.nacse.org/Curriculum/downloadables/glossary.pdf

I feel your going to have to remove one of your Swift bell mixers and compare to others to find a suitable one to try. Ideally ones like the Predator would be great with multiple holes on either side to allow for experimentation.

This is getting quite good now, although I wish I still had access to machinery as it would be easy to machine up some parts.
.

[aramsdell]

Ian, I found adjustable mixers....from Century. They are part # CN2275A and look to be about the same size, judging by the size of the 3mm bolts in the picture. Both sides are adjustable. If this works out it'll be nice to keep it in the same company's parts list.
Tonight I'm going to put the shorter balls back on the washout links. I think I'll be able to run more dual rate on the cyclic controls before the links start to touch the blade grips(plastic grips, metal head and metal flybar control arms,metal washout arms). This would seem to effectively increase the throw of the swash side in proportion to the flybar side.
I haven't tached my setup recently so maybe I'll re-document everything as it is now ....pitch curves ,d/r etc.
I appreciate your input with this project !
Al Ramsdell. Maine, USA.

[aramsdell]

I tached the Swift after 4 minutes of mild 3D. 2100+ on the ground at 0 deg pitch.
I changed back to the short ball-links on the washout links. I'm still at the point where the links just touch the grips in the air, with the plastic grips. Are the metal grips smaller in diameter than the plastic in that area, allowing more travel for the flybar?
Ian , are you using the metal grips or the plastic?
Al.

[Coolice]

Hey,

At the moment I am still using the plastic grips, I have some ali ones to fit but am not running them yet.

Both should be the same dimension wise, however I have not measured them to compare.
.

[aramsdell]

I've got the adjustables on now. I've got the direct-to-swash side closest in to the mounting bolt and the paddle side at the furthest out hole. This seems to be the best for this setup so far. More???It's getting there.

[Coolice]

Hey,

When you can post some pictures for me to see these arms, this is interesting stuff.
.

[ZXXflyer]

Have you ever stopped to measure how much cyclic pitch you are getting on the main blades with the dual rates cranked way up??

I just finished the search for faster cyclic on my CCPM Hawk Pro. Results were to switch to light weight carbon paddles(CY super stubz), get red dampers, flip the mixer arms over so that the balls are closer to the mast, all four "mid size" balls on the swash ring, and longer balls on the see saw.
I now have a lightning fast roll rate with 6.5 degrees cyclic pitch, 1,800 rpm head speed, and no binding.

[ZXXflyer]

Hope this helps....