Titan50 and hyper problem

[Spindle]

I'm flying a titan with an OS50 hyper and hitec 6965on throttle and 6975 on collective. Also using a GV1, 30% nitro and hatori muffler with +/-10 pitch. In idleup when I jab the throttle to do takeoff with a flip etc the heli just doesn't have punch that the hypers normally do :( It picks up in a couple of seconds and is fine in tic tocs etc. The main needle is 1.5 turns open and the idle is at factory setting. I can keep my finger on the backplate for three seconds and in the pinch test it also idles for three to four seconds. I closed the needles a bit to see how it goes but it gets hot if i do that. The engine has five gallons through it. What do u guys think?

[Seeker]

What's your headspeed and pitch range?

[Spindle]

Headspeed is 1950rpm in idleup with the optional gearing and pitch is +/-10.

[willy000]

Iv got the same setup as you but no GV1 and im using the stock exhast
mine works great just using a normal V throttle curve
have you checked your setup on the GV1,also how dod you check your head
speed.

Iv read some where else that the hatori 522 exhaust is ment to run at
2000+ head speed try that out.....................

[BarracudaHockey]

Its the MP2 and thats with the stock gears.

Try 11 degrees of pitch.

[Spindle]

I've even tried +/-11 but even then there was no improvement :( My pitch ATV's r 115 and 120, do u think that's ok?

[archiebald]

I'd put my money on the GV-1.

I am about to ditch my remaining GV-1, I put a CSM Revlock RL20 on my 2nd heli a while backand the performance of it made me realise how slow the GV-1 responds under certain conditions.

[Spindle]

archiebald I've been using the GV1 in various helis so far without any problems. Besides it can't be that slow since a lot of guys who r way better flyers than me r using it! But u r correct since everyone says it's slower than the latest governors on the market.

[BarracudaHockey]

I had two of them and hated both of them. Revlocks or Aerospire Multigovs for me.

[archiebald]

Spindle,
I too thought the GV-1 was good....until I got a Revlock. It was a revelation.

[mjws]

Why not use your curves to compare and see if the GV1 is actually getting in the way?

I'm no fan of the GV1 but it doesn't typically make a bird gutless in an extended climbout. It might lag a multi or revlock by a fraction of a second... but 'a couple seconds to pick up' sounds like tuning or another problem.

Can the GV-1 possibly be set up so it can NOT give full throttle? i.e the endpoints are so far out of calibration/setting it is only giving 85%? (Sorry don't have one) You could screw other govs up like that.

Seriously. Run CURVES. See if the problem is better. Then start looking at your collective servo, voltage under load, slop in the head, the collective tray bending under load, linkages robbing you of pitch. Are you just bogging it, is it not digging in at all, does it stutter then start making power after transistion? Could be lots of things besides the gov.

Mike

[Spindle]

mjws I have a tach so I'll check the headspeed as soon as I repaire the heli which crashed courtesy of the jesus bolt :( I setup the normal mode throttle curve at 20,27,37, 48, 58,69, 78 when I set the IDLE Limit on the GV1. In my other heli a friend did the setup and the curve starts at 0. I tried to follow raptortechnique and he suggests to use a curve similar to mine for radios with a THR CUT switch. Maybe I got the setup wrong, what do u think?

[mjws]

Personally I think your gear is fine (GV1 isn't all that but it works). It is a setup issue.

Your throttle curve is a little wacky, but not WAY out depending on geometry, 37-45% at midstick is common. The other points not so much. Get your throttle geometry set up like this: http://www.ronlund.com/throttle.htm

The 6975 is strong enough to give good punch on a 50. But it is very easy for the raptor head and mechanics to rob you of snap. I had one that felt similar to your description after many flights. Just wouldn't pop like I wanted it to. It just had enough flex and give to rob me. The 6985 on 6V wasn't trying. Dampeners and an extreme makeover looking for the tiniest bit of slop, give or play helped it significantly. Then I stuck yet another head (trex) on it and it was back to it's old snappy self. Did stock, maverick, tt metal, 600.

Get yourself a normal curve that will load that motor and ask for full power 100%. If you need to temporarily skew your pitch to positive say 13+ degrees to get it to load. Do it. Preferably have enough available pitch that you can bring it to it's knees (bog) and use collective management to back it off in your climb. You want to see what you can pull with this motor, get your tuning and transition dialed in, see how the pipe functions. Fly it in FFF and keep it loaded right up if you can.

If it is anemic in this condition you have a tuning/engine issue. Throttle curve is maxed, pitch is as much as it can take... Dead simple nothing to get in our way and throw us off. If it cranks and makes wicked power we move on.

After you've seen it pull like crazy, and make good power. Dial it in on curves. Go back to linear pitch +-10 is fine +-11.5 is fine this is personal preference and dependant on skill. More pitch = more pop. More pitch + less skill = BOG. You need to get your curve set so it pulls like a freight train all the way through, you want it to load HARD but not bog. Your current throttle curve is so flat, maybe it doesn't have a chance to pull while you add pitch? I'd be looking for more like 20,27,37,48,58, 75, 100. i.e Much steeper at the end where we need to lead pitch with power. When it pulls hard enough to jump and bog, and you've seen max power. Your positive your tuning is dialed in. NOW SET UP YOUR GV1.

Once you have a baseline, you have the gov as the only change in the system. The GV1 really shouldn't get in your way, it doesn't respond to changing loads as quick as some, can't use your fast digital, and may allow slightly more overspeeding, but it doesn't steal peak power if you are in it for any length of time, it will get to WOT just like any other gov.

You need to ensure your mechanics, engine, and tuning are dialed. See what kind of power you can actually make. Then set the gov and go.

Good Luck,

Mike

[Spindle]

mjws thanks for the excellent post :) I'll definitely go over the setup like u suggest! I have a kasama head which I'm planning on using on the titan, increasing the pitch to around +13 should be easy with it. Will let u know how it goes.