Helijive 101

[Alignnitro]

I bought a helijive to go along with my goblin build. I have yet to open it up yet because I've been reading as much as I can about the helijive and it seems the more I read the more I'm confused. Lol. Does the Manual do any justice when it comes to programming ? I know some manuals can make things bad for new guys. I was really skeptical about buying the helijive only because I've never messed with a ESC before but I wanted the best I could buy And i am positive that the helijive is just that !! I've also kept it closed just in case this esc is over my head and I need to sell and get something easier to program. Couple of question if you guys can help please

- Mr. Mel's video on programming , does it apply to the latest helijive 120HV

- do I need the progdisk to program this thing and also use the autorotation option

- when folks talk about modes are they programming each mode for setup or is it that helijive has preprogrammed modes and you select which of those modes you wanna use ?

Really sorry for my ignorance and I've tried to read about it I've just gotten more confused as I read. Also this just may be something I need to trade in for something more simpler. I just wanted to have the best and most reliable esc.

Thanks for any input guys.

[MrMel]

You have a new video here, made on the helijive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Wz4KUzjXA


you do not NEED the progdisc, you can do without as long as you do not want to set special parameters like bec voltage etc.

Mode 4 = Governor, Each startup it looks at battery for best performance.
Mode 5 = Governor, First startup it remember RPM and keep that RPM same each time, regardless of pack
Mode 6 = Governor, Special mode to run both low and high RPM.

[Vinger]

Got the Prog disc, and try as I might, cannot get the BEC voltage set, jiggling and juggling this POS is nearly impossible, tried for hours on end and only gets as far as Programming, but cannot get into the BEC V menu.

Can you do a video on how to jiggle and juggle this thing, PLEASE?

[MrMel]

Look at the bars

If the horizontal is at Right, and Vertical at Center you choose an option and go into it.
If the horizontal is at Left and vertical at Center you go back.
If the horizontal is at center and Vertical is up or down you scroll up or down.

[WBFAir]

Got the Prog disc, and try as I might, cannot get the BEC voltage set, jiggling and juggling this POS is nearly impossible, tried for hours on end and only gets as far as Programming, but cannot get into the BEC V menu.

Can you do a video on how to jiggle and juggle this thing, PLEASE?Also keep in mind that one of the menus of the ProgDisk you can go to (talks about this in the instructions) is one with a few variations of how the interface specifically can be navigated. Don't remember all of them or exactly how each one works. But some make it easier to nav the unit then others, guess which one that is matters as to which you like best.

Just kinda remember that the default one was not much to my liking at all and I found one that I liked better so perhaps you will too.

[GimpyGolden]

Any chance K will just make a PROGCARD III?
The ProgDisk is too expensive and sounds like a PITA to boot.

[WBFAir]

Might have to actually call that a ProgCard 4 maybe as while it isn't mentioned much, they call the ProgDisk part that does things above what parts of it replace the cards, as the "Vitrual" ProgCard 3.

All in all and this is just my opinion and not based on any discussions with anyone, but would think they might not only as, the Disk covers so many things they have, actually everything.

As well, itself can be updated online so as things come along, it can just be adapted to things.

For instance, it was out before they even made the HeliJive, and to the best of my knowledge, it didn't have any of the programing for it. Then the HeliJive came out and they released a update for it that could be downloaded and installed via your PC and poof, all the HeliJive programing was there (least mine had ver 1 on there when I bought it and then I did the update and that's how it worked for me).

And as well, think its the only thing you can used to do any online updating to end products like for instance, the Koby (and maybe the new Kosmic..don't know).

But all in all while it seems like a lot of money for just one thing if that's all your getting it for, the disk really covers a lot of other things which of course, if you don't need those, seems like a waist.

But again, all in all, when you consider everything that the Disk can do, just my opinion but I might think they might think it would seem silly to keep coming up with one app cards every time they come out with something new.

[GimpyGolden]

Good point.
Still seems too pricey for Jive only users since it cannot do FW update on them. Maybe a more simple programmer like (dare I say) Castle Link.

[WBFAir]

Well if your talking the straight Jive, the ProgCard 2 does everything on that you might need (pretty sure).

Then really its up to you but other then maybe changing the BEC volts which I think might be something most critical people would need if there using the HeliJive's BEC, all though 5.6 with 5Amps as well to it, isn't too bad. And then maybe upping the default pack cut off volts from 2.8 (pretty sure thats right) to 3.0 or 3.2 if you prefer that, it isn't like you absolutely need the Disk.

Pretty sure a lot are getting by just fine and are doing things like setting up the bailout stuff just fine, all without the Disk.

For the BEC volts some get lucky with someone who has one to borrow it to change that (course it will switch back if you reset).

But certainly won't argue that its not a pricy part.

[GimpyGolden]

ProgCard II can adjust BEC on HeliJive.
Only thing I would like to change on HJ is spool up time but ProgCard I does not work at all with HJ.
HJ LiPo cut is 2.8 which isn't very good, I'd prefer 3.0+
For Regular Jive the 2 cards cover everything and no need for ProgDisk.

[WBFAir]

ProgCard II can adjust BEC on HeliJive.
Only thing I would like to change on HJ is spool up time but ProgCard I does not work at all with HJ.
HJ LiPo cut is 2.8 which isn't very good, I'd prefer 3.0+
For Regular Jive the 2 cards cover everything and no need for ProgDisk.Huh, thats interesting. Basically am going by the HeliJive manual in that the section where it talks about changing the BEC volts, it says you need the ProgDisk for that.

Also never herd or read anything to the contrary.

But if someone else has used the ProgCard 2 for that and it works, wouldn't be too surprised as they aren't all that much different of a ESC I would suspect.

Also yeah, kinda forgot about the spoolup time thing and for sure can't do that any other way. And I think some parts of the way the Bailout thing works has something to do with what setting you have for your spoolup. But can't be sure bout that.

[GimpyGolden]

Yup I've set my HJ BEC to 6V with ProgCard.
Bailout is 1/6 of spool up.

[WBFAir]

Yup I've set my HJ BEC to 6V with ProgCard.
Bailout is 1/6 of spool up.Huh interesting to know.

Only thing I would say about that is would be cautious about recommending this to others only as K can be a little fussy about doing something that they haven't approved and then if there is a problem as a result, it might be called into question if there is a warr. issue especially if what you did caused a problem as a result.

Again, totally don't know if its common to use the 2 card for this or what K's position on it is or even if I'm completely wrong on all of this, just would think its something to keep in mind if it hasn't as with what these things cost, you don't want to run into having to eat one.

[Vinger]

Look at the bars

If the horizontal is at Right, and Vertical at Center you choose an option and go into it.
If the horizontal is at Left and vertical at Center you go back.
If the horizontal is at center and Vertical is up or down you scroll up or down.





Thanks, understand that, but you try to get the BEC on a HJ set to 6V, it is impossible, rather just use prog card II, plug in push button and done.

Cannot in my wildest dreams envisage what Kontronik was thinking with this disc, it would have been cheaper to make it without internal gyro and just put a up down and select button on the face.....

COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY AND A REAL :BSS

[WBFAir]

Thanks, understand that, but you try to get the BEC on a HJ set to 6V, it is impossible, rather just use prog card II, plug in push button and done.

Cannot in my wildest dreams envisage what Kontronik was thinking with this disc, it would have been cheaper to make it without internal gyro and just put a up down and select button on the face.....

COMPLETE WASTE OF MONEY AND A REAL :BSSVinger, not sure all that is going on for you but just to mention. I remember when I first got my Disk, I actually thought it was broken.

Could get the HeliJive menu highlighted, but would never go in.

I think if I recall, the reason was, with the default interface option it had, not only did the menu need to be highlighted, but I think one of those leveler bars MrMel is talking about had to be in a certain place or a certain color or something.

Other wise if it wasn't you could highlight the HeliJive menu all you wanted but it never actually will go into it.

Maybe that is wrong but I remember there was something by default that I wasn't doing right and must have tried a million times and it never went in and all it would do is go into the the first item on the menu which I think was ProgCard 1.

Then once I figured out what it was, I was able to get into HeliJive menu, or one of the other ones and change that interface option and the one I changed it to, worked differently and then it wasn't so bad.

Funny as it actually is discussed how to do it right in the manual as I recall, but the way they write it, its really hard to understand what they are talking about without seeing it or having done it once. Then after I was like, ah now I get it, but before I almost threw the thing against the wall. Good thing it cost me so much or I probably would have.

Might be really nice if someone would make a really nice vid on how to operate the Disk. Actually there are a few I had found but they really aren't as good as I know some others can do.

[Alignnitro]

What mode are most guys running ?

[WBFAir]

Edit, duh....too many threads in my head answering am I.

For me on my HeliJive on my Align 700E, Mode 4 and thats it, was running Mode 4 and Mode 9 (KSA) when I was using the 700Mx motor, but took that out for the new Quantum I'm using.

But too, haven't been able to test fly it yet as weather has just been to crappy, or me to busy when it hasn't.

[Vinger]

Vinger, not sure all that is going on for you but just to mention. I remember when I first got my Disk, I actually thought it was broken.

Could get the HeliJive menu highlighted, but would never go in.

I think if I recall, the reason was, with the default interface option it had, not only did the menu need to be highlighted, but I think one of those leveler bars MrMel is talking about had to be in a certain place or a certain color or something.

Other wise if it wasn't you could highlight the HeliJive menu all you wanted but it never actually will go into it.

Maybe that is wrong but I remember there was something by default that I wasn't doing right and must have tried a million times and it never went in and all it would do is go into the the first item on the menu which I think was ProgCard 1.

Then once I figured out what it was, I was able to get into HeliJive menu, or one of the other ones and change that interface option and the one I changed it to, worked differently and then it wasn't so bad.

Funny as it actually is discussed how to do it right in the manual as I recall, but the way they write it, its really hard to understand what they are talking about without seeing it or having done it once. Then after I was like, ah now I get it, but before I almost threw the thing against the wall. Good thing it cost me so much or I probably would have.

Might be really nice if someone would make a really nice vid on how to operate the Disk. Actually there are a few I had found but they really aren't as good as I know some others can do.
No what was that that you did to get it to work?

I still can't get it to set the BEC voltage, nevermind anything else, tried standing on my head holding it inverted and still just paging up and down, really Kontronik calling this advancement in technology, I am not so sure I am going to trust their new ESCs.......

[WBFAir]

No what was that that you did to get it to work?

I still can't get it to set the BEC voltage, nevermind anything else, tried standing on my head holding it inverted and still just paging up and down, really Kontronik calling this advancement in technology, I am not so sure I am going to trust their new ESCs.......Yeah I agge with you its tough, gotta just remember that K kinda does things their own way. Thankfully even if they may seem weird and some of this side stuff a big pain in the a**.

The end result payoff of what it does for your helos is way worth it, least in my opinion.

Anyway, sorry I can't 100% remember what is was at the moment, if you like I can try to look at things again but despite like it seems I have lots of time writing all these posts, it may be a day or two as I'm just really bottled up with things at the moment, just happen to be able to bang out a thread or two as I'm working through lots of paper work at the moment. Also and it may take some time to write out too.

Will do it though if you can wait.

[Heli G]

Huh interesting to know.

Only thing I would say about that is would be cautious about recommending this to others only as K can be a little fussy about doing something that they haven't approved and then if there is a problem as a result, it might be called into question if there is a warr. issue especially if what you did caused a problem as a result.

Again, totally don't know if its common to use the 2 card for this or what K's position on it is or even if I'm completely wrong on all of this, just would think its something to keep in mind if it hasn't as with what these things cost, you don't want to run into having to eat one.

They specifically refer to using the Progdisc/Progcard II in the HeliJive manual (motor rotation reverse I think). Can't see why they would refer to it in the manual if not approved for use. It works fine and is easy to use. :thumbup:

Agree with Vinger on the Progdisc...over engineerd IMHO.

[MrMel]

They specifically refer to using the Progdisc/Progcard II in the HeliJive manual (motor rotation reverse I think). Can't see why they would refer to it in the manual if not approved for use. It works fine and is easy to use. :thumbup:

Agree with Vinger on the Progdisc...over engineerd IMHO.

Even if the actual CARD is not valid, the "progcard II" etc is name of the menu in the ProgDisc...

[WBFAir]

They specifically refer to using the Progdisc/Progcard II in the HeliJive manual (motor rotation reverse I think). Can't see why they would refer to it in the manual if not approved for use. It works fine and is easy to use. :thumbup:

Agree with Vinger on the Progdisc...over engineerd IMHO.Yeah you know what, my apologizes it is in the section about reversing the motor drive.

Never had to do that for mine so never read that section.

Strange that they would talk about using the cards for that in the manual, but then mention the ProgDisk for everything else.

Oh well, go figure, if its in there for that I would tend to agree with you Heli G.

For me I will say I'm glad I have the disk for it though, get to be mister did it by the book.

But again, for sure I would understand others not feeling like spending the money it costs just to do the same.

Probably wouldn't myself for just that.

[WBFAir]

Even if the actual CARD is not valid, the "progcard II" etc is name of the menu in the ProgDisc...Yeah boy sometimes you really gotta look at things closer.

Basically here is a copy from the manual:

7.7 Reverse Motor Rotation (Mode 7)
The motor rotation will be reversed by changing 2 motor cables, using PROGDISC/PROGCARD II, or programming mode 7.

So in re-reading it, maybe thats what they mean is to use the ProgDisk's ProgCard II section?

Can't remember if the HeliJive section has any BEC volt options either and would have to hook it up to double check which I kinda don't have the time now, but for that quick break down of the menus section at the very end of the ProgCards manual, it isn't showing a variable for the BEC Voltage in the section for everything with the HeliJive, but it does show that in the ProgDisk II section.

Again can't remember as its been a while since I played with it, but as I recall, you can activate and get into the ProgCard II's section when its hooked up to a HeliJive.

So this could very well be what they are referring to as in re-reading it, sure seems like that would be the way that at least its written.

Also would listen to MrMel for things like this over anyone based on his involvement with things.

[Vinger]

Emails from Kontronik confirms that you CAN use PROG CARD II on the HeliJive, PROG CARD 1 does not work.

Same with the DISC, if you select PROG CARD 1 on the disc while connected to a HeliJive, it returns error stating that no valid ESC was found. The physical PROG CARD II works like a dream on the HeliJive. You can change everything that the PROG CARD II allows on the HeliJive no problem at least you can do it it less than a minute where the DISC takes the better part of a day.

Progress the German way!!!!

[Heli G]

Also would listen to MrMel for things like this over anyone based on his involvement with things.

Just to clarify Mr Mel did not say you should not use ProgCard II with the HeliJive and neither did Kontronik. Even Readyheli says you can use it, see http://www.readyheli.com/Kontronik-Heli-Jive-120-HV-Brushless-ESC-Version-11_p_38492.html "Kontronik Heli Jive 120+ HV ESC Overview:...Further highlights are waiting inside the new JIVE ESC. One of which is the unbelievably strong BEC which is adjustable between 5V and 6V with ProgCARD II or ProgDISC."

Tom also said that ProgCard II can be used and he's pretty close to K ;)...see http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=3173111&postcount=270 "The HeliJIVE is much more than mode 8, there're new modes 3, 6 and 10 (besides 4), mode 11 is redefined as 5, mode 10 as 9, - and we have support for bail out. The setup of all these new functions is done by the HeliJIVE tab of the ProgDisc. Although you even can do the BEC voltage setup by this you may alternatively use the ProgCard II tab for that (or a ProgCard II in hardware if you have and prefer to use for)."

...and for final confirmation see below reply from Kontronik...

Dear Gerard,

yes, the HELI JIVE is PROGCARD II compatible. However, in order to adjust all parameters you might need the PROGDISC

Best regards
Ihr KONTRONIK Team / Your KONTRONIK Team
Telefon +49 7457 94350 · Fax +49 7457 943590
info@kontronik.com