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richardmills
05-09-2012, 04:04 PM
Do the new kits have a new pin that secures the tail pulley?

richardmills
05-10-2012, 04:58 AM
can anyone confirm weather the newer kits have a different tail pulley pin?
also are the pins now secured with clips top and bottom?

Thanks

EricW
05-10-2012, 05:19 AM
Can you point me out where you got the info??, that there are considerations to change something...

richardmills
05-10-2012, 05:31 AM
Its mentioned in the thread where the chaps tail pulley pin shered. Someone with a new kit says they have a flat pin in the pulley.

Psych101
05-10-2012, 07:19 AM
I just received my kit. My pulley has a hollow pin with no clips retaining it. Seems pretty flimsy. I have been disappointed with the quality of the tail components generally actually (too much plastic). I won't complain if it does the job though (yet to maiden).

GimpyGolden
05-10-2012, 09:00 AM
Comment was by me conserning the hinge pins not the pulley pin.
Newer kit have Flat Clips(Grab Washers) installed on all hinge pins.
Like these
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/gimpygolden/s1051984.jpg

Tail pulley is still Roll Pin(Spring Pin), at least on mine.

OverTemp
05-10-2012, 10:48 PM
Comment was by me conserning the hinge pins not the pulley pin.
Newer kit have Flat Clips(Grab Washers) installed on all hinge pins.
Like these
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/gimpygolden/s1051984.jpg

Tail pulley is still Roll Pin(Spring Pin), at least on mine.

Are those available anywhere?

GimpyGolden
05-10-2012, 11:13 PM
Don't seem to be through dealers and I've been searching online but smallest I can find is 2.6mm and we need 2mm.

If I find them somewhere I'll post up.

BTW Compass does show them included with this part
[/URL][url]http://www.rchelicanada.com/compass-helicopter-parts/other-models-3d-plus-k3d-600e-sportx-/02-0205s-tail-blade-links/prod_661.html (http://www.nankinhobby.com/Compass-Parts/Compass-3D-Plus/Tail-Blade-Links/prod_248.html)
But some members have reported the clips aren't included.

Maybe one of our dealers can confirm, thanks.

Diviner
05-10-2012, 11:29 PM
Don't seem to be through dealers and I've been searching online but smallest I can find is 2.6mm and we need 2mm.

If I find them somewhere I'll post up.

BTW Compass does show them included with this part
http://www.rchelicanada.com/compass-helicopter-parts/other-models-3d-plus-k3d-600e-sportx-/02-0205s-tail-blade-links/prod_661.html
But some members have reported the clips aren't included.

Maybe one of our dealers can confirm, thanks.


Clips were not in the bag the last time I ordered (which was just to get the clips), but the first time I ordered they were (early last year).

Mcmaster carr has something similar but they are 3/32 which is close to 2 mm (2.38mm). Next time I place an order with them, I will order a bag (100 for $4.50). I have searched the internet and can't find them. Also looked at c clip solutions but no luck.

About a third of the page down "self locking external retaining rings"
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/118/3273/=hhcmf0

Jonnyrl1
05-11-2012, 12:01 AM
I purchased my kit mid January and it came with 4 of the below lock washers(or what ever they are called) There are 2 other pins on the tail though that have nothing on them which is always on the back of my mind when flying.



Like these
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/gimpygolden/s1051984.jpg

cupracing
05-11-2012, 07:47 AM
I noticed my 6hv has them, wonder why they did away with them on the 7hv?

Dylwad
05-11-2012, 08:22 AM
Comment was by me conserning the hinge pins not the pulley pin.
Newer kit have Flat Clips(Grab Washers) installed on all hinge pins.
Like these
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg18/gimpygolden/s1051984.jpg

Tail pulley is still Roll Pin(Spring Pin), at least on mine.

Just stumbled across these to try http://www.sdp-si.com/D805/D805_PDFS/section10/80510038.pdf

17 cents each from www.sdp-si.com

Dylan

GimpyGolden
05-11-2012, 09:28 AM
Jeff replied and says his stock does include the clips.

Ah Clem
05-11-2012, 12:21 PM
I know there has been a recent post where someone had the roll pin that retains the pulley to the tail rotor shaft back out, and or, break. My feeling is that there was something out of tolerance on that machine (hole too large in the tail shaft, pulley, or both; defective pin, etc. I do not know, as I do not have that ship here to examine. Either way, I am very sympathetic to the user who had the problem.

While this is a very unfortunate incident, it is, IMHO, an isolated one. I have never had one of these back out or fail, in flight (on six Compass machines, some of which are over five years old and have many, many flights on them). When I have had to replace a pulley or tail shaft, I have had to press the old pin out, with some force.

A roll pin is actually, a hardened, rolled spring, which is compressed when pressed in. Due to being compressed when installed, it exerts tension, pressing outward against the hole it is pressed into and so it is extremely rare for one to back out. Any time a roll pin is removed, it should be replaced with a new one, as they take a set and are more likely to break if taken out and put back in.

The only time I have ever had a roll pin fail, was on the main drive of an American Revolution Commander, back in the early 1980's. The roll pin retained the clutch bell to the pinion drive shaft. After many, many flights, the aluminum of the bell started to get loose on the shaft and started rocking the pin back and forth. I did not catch it, and the pin sheared in flight. Bear in mind, that the entire torque provided by a .60 sized engine was focused on this pin through a 3/16" or 1/4" shaft.

On other (modern) brands of helicopters, I have seen metal and plastic pulleys which were pressed on to shafts, strip out and start slipping under load. I have also seen hardened steel pins, which are retained by set screws threaded into the tail shafts, back out and damage or melt tail cases. Set screws can come loose. Even some of the newer hardened metal pins which have integral set screws have been known to back out (there is a recent thread on this, which is quite long).

No system is perfect. After dealing with these things for over 30 years, I actually prefer the roll pins.

Regarding the press nuts, clips, or Tinnerman nuts for the hinge pins, I think these are a very good idea and would hope they are included as standard equipment in the future.

OverTemp
05-11-2012, 01:01 PM
Apologize for asking a dumb question... My heli is 16 time zones away right now...

Are the little retainer clubs we need for to retain the large pivot pins for the tail pitch arm the same size as the ones included with these parts:

http://www.experiencerc.com/store/02-0205s_tail_blade_links-p-9739.html

Thanks!

richardmills
05-11-2012, 02:38 PM
my kit came 2 days ago. didnt have the clips though.

dunkonu23
05-11-2012, 02:42 PM
I ordered a set.

Scott

Jamesppp
05-11-2012, 06:25 PM
1} The kit I received yesterday has the clips on thetail blade links as shown in the link posted by Over Temp 3 posts up.

2} the tension pin holding my tail pully is very snug. I put a good bit of pressure on it with a pin punch and it didnt move. My logo 500 has a much looser fit tension pin holding the tail pully but it is captured by a snap on cap that slides ove the shaft too.

3} the 2 long pins that hinge the slider dont have anything but friction holding them in. They are very tight right now. I will keep an eye on them.

Are the tail blade links http://www.experiencerc.com/store/02-0205s_tail_blade_links-p-9739.html the part that everyone uses a link sizing tool on? My tail is very stiff. I popped these off the balls and everythibng is very smooth except the blade links themselves. The pins holding them on have the "grab washers" on them but they are very tight and dont pivot well

Ok I just removed the grab washer from 1 side,the pin was very tight but I moved it with a long nose plier. I have a little room betwee the grab washer on the other side but the link is still super stiff. It will be a miracle if I get the grab washer back on.

Might have been a mistake but I took the grab washers off of one side of each arm, forced the pin back and forth a bit with triflow and the arms really loosened up.
When I snapped it back on the balls it is only half as stiff as before. maybe sizing the links a bit will fix the stiffness. I am waiting on someone to tell me that others have sized these things:wow2:

Edit: tail is now very smooth. reaming the links with my link sizeing tool and jacking around with the pins and retaining washers paid off:cheers

Diviner
05-11-2012, 07:42 PM
Apologize for asking a dumb question... My heli is 16 time zones away right now...

Are the little retainer clubs we need for to retain the large pivot pins for the tail pitch arm the same size as the ones included with these parts:

http://www.experiencerc.com/store/02-0205s_tail_blade_links-p-9739.html

Thanks!
yes

dunkonu23
05-12-2012, 06:44 PM
I installed the clips on mine today. Flew 6 flights and it's fine. I did notice that one pin had slid a little, not much, though.

Scott

OverTemp
05-12-2012, 06:54 PM
Pics?

dunkonu23
05-12-2012, 07:05 PM
Coming up...

up...

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=316120&stc=1&d=1336864533

Please excuse the doubling in the above picture.. I'm learning HDR photography and I moved just a little. But the clips are there.

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=316121&stc=1&d=1336864533

This package came with five clips... Thanks for the link, OT.

Scott

OverTemp
05-12-2012, 08:53 PM
Ok... So you are just talking about the little blade arms, not the large pitch arm that connects to the carbon rod. So those same clips would fit the larger pitch arm... The two huge pins?

dunkonu23
05-12-2012, 10:43 PM
I just tried those two, OT. There's barely enough pin to get a good, safe fit. I was able to just pop them off on the huge pins. I think the pins would need to be a bit longer to make it workable. I think in this place, shoulder bolts with washers and nyloc nuts would be a better solution, unless larger pins are available. In the later case, I'd probably replace the hinge arms so the new pins would fit tightly through the plastic.

I can see these pins coming out if there is a lot vibration in the tail. I think after playing with this, I'm going to mix up some JB Weld and put some on the ends of those larger hinge pins.

Scott

Diviner
05-12-2012, 11:30 PM
I just tried those two, OT. There's barely enough pin to get a good, safe fit. I was able to just pop them off on the huge pins. I think the pins would need to be a bit longer to make it workable. I think in this place, shoulder bolts with washers and nyloc nuts would be a better solution, unless larger pins are available. In the later case, I'd probably replace the hinge arms so the new pins would fit tightly through the plastic.

I can see these pins coming out if there is a lot vibration in the tail. I think after playing with this, I'm going to mix up some JB Weld and put some on the ends of those larger hinge pins.

Scott
+1 , went that same route last year looking at longer pins. They still moved a little.

Mcmaster goes up to 30mm in alloy steel which is 6mm longer than the stock 24mm length..

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-dowel-pins/=hidn0x

they also have 2.125 length rod which could be cut.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-steel-rod-stock/=hidph4