Which Charger 6S 5000 mAH? decisions decisions

[Jermo]

I'm debating between the BC8 and the TP1010. From what I read both will require an external balancer. I'm slowly saving.

I already have a 35A DC powersupply so that's not a factor.

I like the fact the TP1010 is user flashable.

I'd love to hear from the community on different options they see, what they like and don't like.

edit: one possible solution is the V-Balancer and just use the Jamara peak 3 plus charger I have. It's limited to 5A charge but does Lipo and A123. That solution is about $50 new.

[flingwing403]

hey jermo i have just gotten into the 600.big pakc realm.

my purchase included a bc-8 with a tp5000mah.

it cam with the wires so i dont know if its stock or extra but, i plug the balance leads from the pack into the proper ports, they in turn plug into the "balance" port on the bc8 and the charge leads go into the bat from the power leads that run the motor.

i turn it on, it monitors absolutely everything, i can scroll trough each individual cell to check the voltage, it balances as it charges, it tells me how many mah are put back in, has cut off volts, cut off temp, and a redundent timer i can put on as well, in case i am charging while surfing tv and pass out on the couch..lol

also has "fst charge" option which i have not tried, but from what i read in the manual i think all it does is eliminate the last 5% where it usually trickles the amps down to 0 since they claim it will only charge to aprox 95% capacity

the temp probe to monitor bat temp s optional and did not come included, nor did the usb cable to wire it into a pc for updates and other pertinant battery graphs/info..

all in all i am pretty damn happy with it, last 6 charges its placed 2200mah back into my pack after flying in about 42-45 minutes charging at 3.5 amps...being gentle on my pack

[No_Gassers_Here]

hey there jermo it's been a long time. you know I got my 600 a few mounths ago. And I have bought and sold more chargers then I care to admit so I will give you the money saver(411) I have the 1010/210 set up now and you couldn't take it from me for any amount of money. You know how I am about my stuff and I am telling you buddy to buddy save your duckies(money) and get the 1010/210 combo it's very well worth the wait. also I have a bounch of 600 plastic parts here that came of the 600(I like the bling bling) and if you need any parts drop me a pm and we can work something out.(like last time) I think you have got or maybe you are getting a 600. But WOW it blows my mind on just how great this heli is. A word on pak (GET THE AIR THUNDER)all the rest of the paks are a joke I can fly my air thunder in tell the 600 drops from the sky and it will not puff and it will not over heat here is a link to the site but save and get the right stuff the frist time and you will not have to worry about the 80% rule any more hell I don't use a timer anymore I just fly in tell I am done or the head speed drops and bring her down what a greart pak and it makes the wife happy I can't puff then like I did my Thunder power and Flight Power paks $600+ down the drain.


http://www.airthunder.com/catalog01/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=38

[No_Gassers_Here]

o-ya and when you buy a Airthunder pak make sure you get the adapter to go from a Align style balance tap to a Thunder power tap I had one for the Align paks but the Air Thunder paks don't come with one and you will need it if you do the 1010/210 set up.

flingwing403


I had one of those chargers and there very good but IMO the 1010/210 is a no brainer and you can set and forget the 1010/210 It is the Shiznit again IMO.
by the way if your paks are new I would stay with the 7 mins you are getting don't push the TP paks and 4.2 is the right setting for each cell with the 1010/210 my paks are fully charged and each cell is 4.189-4.195 the 1010/210 setup will let you see each cell and gives you the high and low cells in the main screen

[kgfly]

Jermo,

The BC8 is an integrated balance charger and does NOT require an external balancer. Check out this detailed comparison between the BC8 and TP1010/210V by someone who has both:


An end-user comparison of the eStation BC8 and ThunderPower 1010 + 210V balancer
================================================== ==============================
(From helifreak.com: http://www.helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?p=385346#385346 )

OK I'll try to list some of the things i've found so far and do it off memory since i'm not in front of either one at the moment.

On the display I like the BC-8 a little better. Screen has more contrast and brighter backlite making it very easy to read even from a distance. The backlight brightness is also adjustable on the BC-8. The default charging information layout is virtually identical between the two displaying the 4 critical items - Voltage, Amps, Time, and Capacity. Both will display individual cell voltages. The BC-8 displays 4 cell voltages on a single screen before having to scroll to the next 4 cells. The 1010/210 displays only 2 cells on screen at a time but does show the highest and lowest on the first screen, then you have to scroll through two cells at a time. I prefer the BC-8 4 cell display at a time since there are ultimately less button presses to access the individual voltages initially and less subsequently to check each one. Also when charging 450 batteries you can see all cells on one screen. One thing to note though is the 1010 displays one more decimal space of information although it only does it in increments of 5 on that last one.

1010 will display resting voltage where the BC-8 does not. To see voltage you must be charging. I like to be able to see the resting voltage.

The BC-8 has an optional temperature probe with user programmable cutoff temperature. I like this feature as it just adds one more level of safety. In addition while charging you can scroll to a screen which will display the current internal temperature of the charger as well as the temp being measured by the probe.

Both have balancing capabilities and although the 1010 you need a seperate 210 balancer I think it's safe to assume most people are buying this as a combo anyway. The BC-8 balancer is inegrated into the unit obviously making the whole package smaller. The BC-8 and 1010 are almost the exact same size without the 210. Definately easier to pack around but if you just wanted to balance without the charger that's not an option with the BC-8.

Cable arrangement is better on the 1010. Input leads are on the left and main output leads and data link/balancer are coming out of the right side of the unit. The BC-8 on the other hand has the main output leads on the left, while the input power comes into the right of the unit and the balancing connection is on the right.

Both have 4 buttons with slightly different arrangment and function. 1010 buttons feel nicer than the BC-8 but are a little less intuitive.

Both do a battery check and seem to have equal safety measures built in.

1010 will do 10 cells while the BC-8 will do 8. Both give room to grow from the standard 6s configuration but obviously the 1010 has a more growing room if you choose to go big. The BC-8 is $269 while the 1010/210 is $300.

Both will charge other types of popular cells like NiMH, NiCad, and A123. The BC-8 will do it out fo the box while the 1010 will require a firmware upgrade to do so, which means another $30 USB cable unless you can borrow a fellow fliers cable. I have not used anything other than Lipo on either and have not upgraded the 1010 firmware. While the BC-8 will do A123 i've read that 8s is not enough with that chemistry in combo with a 600 sized machine so if this is something you need than the 1010 is the better choice.

Alert beeps are far louder on the BC-8.

As noted before the 1010 is user upgradable via an optional USB cable. The BC-8 is not user upgradable and would require sending it in. I don't even know if they have any updates available anyway.

The BC-8 comes with software and USB cable that allow you to monitor and graph all battery statistics on charge and discharge. While I have loaded the software and poked around I have not had a chance to monitor a session yet. I will try to do so soon.

Both are great chargers and do as advertised. Both hit their mark but also have some room for improvement.

[Jermo]

Very good info/advice all around. Thank you for the inputs.

I think go V-Balancer and save up for a TP1010/210 (probably used). I like the idea of being user programmable and input left/output right. The last factor is the BC8 is 7A the TP1010 is 10A. On a 5000mAh pack that's 1.4C vs 2C.

Thanks again.

[RC Accessory]

Jermo, the 1010 and BC-8 is comparing apples to oranges. Compare the 1010 to the e-Station 902.

The 902 and dual PB-6 balancers are more money than the 1010/210 combo but you get 12S capability and more features and functions including being a 2 port charger. Max charge rate is 9.9 amps.

Wht aren't you getting the FMA Balance Pro?

[Jermo]

I'm not getting the Balance Pro because it lacks a display otherwise it would have been considered. Essentually once I dismiss a prospect from the list I don't look at it further unless it's close. I had not considered the 902 and dual PB-6 because nobody had suggested them.

Basically unless someone has a charger, suggests a charger for me to look at or sends me one I really don't look too far. People in this hobby stick with what works. I'm happy to check out anything if it meets my needs/wants.

Basically I'd love a charger that:
1. Display, backlight is nice but not required. Should see input/output voltages and currents, output voltages and currents..ie charger rates.
2. Charge rate control...automatic and manual.
3. High capacity, I think it's silly most chargers I've looked at are 10A or less, yes I understand the limits of the cells..ie wiring/connections.
4. Ease of use and intuitive layout. This is highly subjective but since I'm technically minded most things tend to be intuitive if they are well made.
5. Audible alerts/alarms are nice.
6. pc interface optional.
7. ease of balancing.
8. multi chemistry support is nice but not required.
9. multi pack charging support, nice but not required.

I leave for vacation on saturday. I'll research the 902 and PB-6, Thanks for the heads up. Until I spend the cash I'll keep looking. I'm not married to any one solution yet.

[kgfly]

You might find this charger comparison useful:

Recommendations
Best budget solution: FMAdirect BalancePro (2s-6s, 240W/10A, US$105) *BUT no charge monitoring without a PC*
Most convenient mid-range multichemistry: eStation BC8 (2s-8s, 150W/7A, US$270)
Best value high-end multichemistry: Hyperion 1210i-A + 2xLBA10 6S balancer (2s-12s, 180W/10A, US$280) or
ThunderPower 1010 + 210V balancer (2s-10s, 220W/10A, US$300)

FMAdirect BalancePro + WattsUp meter ($105+55=$160)
- Requires DC power
- No display (hence the addition of a WattsUp meter to monitor volts/amps/mAh into the battery
- LiXx only (LiIon/LiPo/LiFe/LiMn)
- 2S to 6S LiPo/LiFe
- Integrated balancer
- Cell recovery, Normal/Fast and A123 cycles
- 240W/10A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 2s-6s <= 10000mAh
- A123 charge rate: 2s-6s <= 4.5C
- Optional PC inteface cable.
- Optional balance port adapters

Fantastic value for a smart, simple to use, fully automatic but safe and very convenient, high power integrated Lixx balance charger. With a PC attached you can monitor all the pack/charge parameters but since it has no display, without a PC you are operating blind. I am not happy with that so I would combine the charger with an inline WattsUp meter to at least be able to know the pack charge state and total mAh recharge. Even with the price of meter (which you can use for inflight power-system analysis too) this is excellent value and well worth considering. Heck at this price you can get two and have two packs on the go at a time.
NOTE that there are rumours of an updated version with integrated display due out some time in 2007.

Hmmm, as I think about it, since charging is done via the balance connector I cannot see how you can use a WattsUp meter to monitor the charge or measure the total mAh put back into the pack. This means the solution is cheaper (no need to buy the meter) but also gives no information about the charge process and outcome without a PC attached.

eStation BC8 ($270)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 8S LiXx
- Integrated 2S-8S balancer
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 150W/7A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S/4S/5S <= 7000mAh, 6s <= 6500mAh, 8S < 5000mAh - A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 3C, 8S <= 2.4C
- Optional temperature probe
- Optional PC interface cable and software
- Optional balance port adapters for Align, DualSky, Graupner, FlightPower, Kokam, Polyquest, ThunderPower, MPX

Excellent and very convenient integrated balance charger. Very capable for typical T600 6s lipo packs

Hyperion 1210i-A + 2xLBA10 6S balancer (~$280)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 12S LiPo/LiFe
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 6S, 2 for 7S-12S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 180W/10A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 2x/3S/4S <= 10000mAh, 5s <- 9500mAh, 6S <= 7900mAh, 8S <= 6000mAh, 10S <= 4800mAh, 12S <= 4000mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S <= 4.3C, 6S <= 4.0C, 8S <= 3.0C
- Be sure to get the datalink cable and network cable for the balancers

A high-power charger that goes right up to 12S for a bargain price. Excellent features (similar to the eStation range) including LiFe support (must be the latest firmware, the -A model). While not as convenient as the BC8 (since you need up to two external balancers), this is very good value for money.

eStation 902 + 2x PB6 6S balancers ($270+ 2x$60 = $390)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiIon/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 12S LiXx
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 6S, 2 for 7S-12S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 200W/9.9A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S/4S/5S <= 9900mAh, 6S <= 9200mAh, 8S <= 6900mAh, 10S <= 5500mAh, 12S <= 4600mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 4.3C, 8S <= 3.3C, 10S <= 2.6C, 12S <= 2.2C
- Be sure to get the datalink cable and network cable for the balancers
- Optional temperature probe and PC inteface cable.

A high-power charger that goes right up to 12S. Excellent features (mostly the same as BC8). While not as convenient as the BC8 (since you need up to two external balancers), this is a very good charger.

ThunderPower 1010 + 210V balancer (~$200 + $100 = $300)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 10S LiPo/LiFe
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 10S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 220W/10A output
- 1C lipo charge: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 10000mAh, 8S <= 7600mAh, 10S <= 6000mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 4.3C, 8S <= 3.6C, 10S <= 2.9C
- Be sure to get the data cable for the balancer
- Field upgradable firmware with optional PC cable

A high-power charger that goes up to 10S. Initially LiXx only the latest firmware added Pb/NiCd/NiMh to to the LiIon/LiPo/LiFe it had before. Unique in this group in allowing end-user firmware upgrades with the purchase of the optional interface cable. This charger is hugely popular in the US with those flying 50-size and bigger helis. It is the highest power of the 10s-12s group but is limited to 10s.

[PsychoPilot145]

Having seen everything else out there either at my field or a fun fly... I swear by, and will stick with my TP 1010/210 combo.

[Jermo]

I just wish FMA had the new Balancepro out. That would give me something to compare to. I really like the Cellpro 4S.

[kgfly]

Indeed :)

[Jermo]

um..wow..I just looked at the balance pro. Does 6S up to 10amps, balancer AND charger $105. That's going to be hard to beat for me. Especially if I can get one used in good condition.. hehe.. gotta find adapters for TP? I think that's it... my chopper came with a flight pack that has a servo lead type connector to charge it :shock: ..I'm guessing that's a TP lead? hehe.

Putting the servo's and such in now... I'm close...charger and batteries (and spare blades).

[kgfly]

I found this: http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm?item=2054&section=38

Looks to me as if you could cut the primary power leads and install some Deans connectors. Then you could put a power meter inline to monitor your charge :) Adds about $80-$100 to the cost of the solution but you can also use the power meter for in-flight performance monitoring.

[Jermo]

mmmm...interesting.. I'm saving up my cash. I don't see any other charger with a balancer for $105 new in the box. I give up a display but I think it still beeps..etc.. I'll have to read up on it. My experience with the Cellpro has been super so I trust their stuff.

I have time..I've not sold my chopper yet. I'm taking it in the shorts big time on it..brand new frames..etc.. sigh.. long sad story.

[nono]

According to me, a good charger is Schulze NEXT-GENERATION.

http://www.schulze-elektronik-gmbh.de/index_uk.htm

What do you think ?



Bye

[RC Accessory]

I found this: http://www.fmadirect.com/detail.htm?item=2054&section=38

Looks to me as if you could cut the primary power leads and install some Deans connectors. Then you could put a power meter inline to monitor your charge :) Adds about $80-$100 to the cost of the solution but you can also use the power meter for in-flight performance monitoring.

You might as well buy the TME Xtrema. While not 10A on a 10S, but has all the features and a balancer for the Xtrema is almost complete. It was announced at SEFF.