Compass 3D

[SP4772]

I am in the process to choose a 50 since i sold my Freya EVO 90 because of the price of the parts and the scary feeling if i had a crash....Since the introducing of the 600N, i feel it is the right choice for me because i like the look and the agility but after reading the posts about different problems, i just checked the Compass. I know you will tell me to buy a 600N because i am on that forum but the Compass do not seems to have any defect parts and it is well built for less $$$ (a 600 pro is around 700 CAN and the K3D is 550). I am still trying to figure out. Just for example, the thickness of the frame is rock solid on the Compass....so it is much more resistant in a crash than a 600...

[Gscott]

I sold both my 600n's in favor of the Knight 3D. I think it is a better design and flies better. For example, the one-way is supported by 2 additional bearings so there is no issue. The frames are 2mm thick and the 3D uses alot of frame stiffeners to make it very rigid. It also uses plastic skid mounts to give it a breaking point instead of breaking the frames. The parts are also just as cheap as the 600 parts and you can get them at several of the big internet shops.

I crashed mine pretty hard earlier this week and it came out with very little damage. It went in almost nose first and hit hard enough to break 2 fins off my Hyper. The plastic skid mounts broke and the frames survived with no damage. All totalled it was about $60 plus blades. I don't think either of my 600n's would have fared as well. Every crash is different but go back and read some of the early nose first crash reports on the 600. There was more than 1 $500+ crash.

All in all I just think the 3D flies better. I get faster cyclic and more pop than I could get from either of my 600's and the 3D tracks just as well in FFF. The flight charateristics remind alot of my Evo 50 but the 3D is lighter and faster.

[SP4772]

Gscott, thanks for answering. I realy love the look of the 600 but there is other things that need to be considered. I'll see with my hobby shop if he can have the parts quickly for the Compass and a good support from the cie. Thanks a lot, still trying to figure out.

[Locktite]

600N all the way..The key is not to crash hard..You don't go out and buy a Ferrari thinking about how much it will cost when you crash it..You buy it for the performance and name..Align is probably the most known and popular heli brand out there and their heli's have flown excellent for me as while as thousands of other people...

[Ticidytoc]

I like being able to drive over to the LHS and pick up parts for my 600's. Having to mail order and wait for parts is such a drag when you want to fly.

[SP4772]

Locktite and Ticidytoc, i understand what you are saying guys but in overall performance and built quality, the K3D is the winner here i think. Less expensive kit, well built and very good performances. I love the way the 600N looks but at the end, i'll have more for my monney with the 3D...I do consider the damage$ in a crash since that is the main reason why i sold my Freya EVO and the parts are easy to order and couple of days away. Compass is a cie that is growing and there will be more and more adepts of the K3D, i am sure about that! Parts will be more available too.

[Ticidytoc]

Locktite and Ticidytoc, i understand what you are saying guys but in overall performance and built quality, the K3D is the winner here i think. Less expensive kit, well built and very good performances. I love the way the 600N looks but at the end, i'll have more for my monney with the 3D...I do consider the damage$ in a crash since that is the main reason why i sold my Freya EVO and the parts are easy to order and couple of days away. Compass is a cie that is growing and there will be more and more adepts of the K3D, i am sure about that! Parts will be more available too.

I am going to have to disagree here.

the Knight 3D kit is $450 and the Align 600N "sport" is $390 how is that less expensive ? Lets not forget with the Align 600N pro you get carbon frames, torque tube, metal tail case, and a painted fiberglass canopy. So the sport is much closer to the Knight 3D.

One ways, maybe the knight has the Align here, but personally I have not had an issue with the oneway in the Align. I keep it lubed and it works just fine for me. I'm still on my kit supplied bearing and sleeve. 14 gallons through it.

Crash cost ? Well when my friend drive his Knight in tail first and since hes not on the internet I helped him research parts and prices. I was amazed at how much the repair cost totaled, those cheap parts sure do add up quick and before we knew it it was right up there with Raptor and Trex prices.

You can sit and nickel and dime the parts, but for the most part the cost of parts on Align, Thunder Tiger, and Compass are very close.

You say the "overall build quality" is better on the Compass, can you please elaborate on this ? What exactly is better ?

[Gscott]

Well for startes the oneway is supported by 2 bearings. The frame is 2mm thick and does not flex like the 600. The 3D frame actually includes frame stiffeners. Aluminum bearing blocks are standard not an upgrade. The skids attach with plastic mounts instead of metal so they break instead of the frames. The engine actually has a center support and is not just supported by the frames (which on the 600 are not that strong to begin with). The stock dampers are much better on the 3D and the fan is not warped. Also the tail grips and overall tail unit is beefier.

As far as crash costs my 3D went in hard enough to break 2 fins off my Hyper and the damage total was $60 plus blades. A 600 Pro went in over the weekend and it was a total loss. Probably over $500 in damage and it didn't go in as hard as my 3D. Sure every crash is different but the way the frames just collapsed around the engine didn't inspire much confidence.

[Gscott]

That's a nice list too bad almost none of them apply to the 3D. Maybe it's me but I'll take a heli with a poor manual and no flat spots on the flybar over one that comes with a warped fan, G10 frames that change color in the sun, a oneway that locks up (yes even the new version locked up after 1 flight), out of round main gears and tail gears, and the list goes on. And the bonus is the Knight flies better than both of my 600n's.

[Ticidytoc]

Well for startes the oneway is supported by 2 bearings.

and yet they have one way issues.

The frame is 2mm thick and does not flex like the 600. The 3D frame actually includes frame stiffeners.Align now has 2mm frames to help with the new piloting skills.

Aluminum bearing blocks are standard not an upgrade.Plastic is lighter than alu. just more bling.

The skids attach with plastic mounts instead of metal so they break instead of the frames. If your driving in your helis this hard then some $0.20 nylon screws fix this problem.

The engine actually has a center support and is not just supported by the frames (which on the 600 are not that strong to begin with). What for ? crashing ?

The stock dampers are much better on the 3D and the fan is not warped. I'll give you this one, Align addressed this with the new dampeners, and now we have the Infinivations to choose from. I had no issues with my plastic fan, works just fine. Align has a metal fan available now amongst the other various after market units.

Also the tail grips and overall tail unit is beefier.That tail unit is a joke imo. Oh, and it blows apart in a crash just like any other tail unit.

As far as crash costs my 3D went in hard enough to break 2 fins off my Hyper and the damage total was $60 plus blades. A 600 Pro went in over the weekend and it was a total loss. Probably over $500 in damage and it didn't go in as hard as my 3D. Sure every crash is different but the way the frames just collapsed around the engine didn't inspire much confidence.Sounds like you found the right bird for you Gscott, I'm really happy you have finally found something that works for you after going through so many other models.

Personally I spend more time flying than I do crashing. The Align works for me in this respect.

Enjoy !

[SP4772]

I just compared both machines side by side and i can tell you that the Knight 3D is much stonger regarding the frame and the way it is built (just took the head of the 600 and it is mooving very easy every ways like chease) And for the amount of posts on the 600N, there is lots about many problems of different parts and the fix solution that everybody is trying to find. I think the 600N is young and most of the probs will be corrected. Don't get me wrong, i realy realy like the look of the machine. I started with a 450SE that i still fly and love very much but too much problems for me on the 600N. Maybe there was some on the Knight at the begining but the new K3D seems to be trouble free now. My hobby shop owner went to IRCHA and flew the 600N and the Knight3D and was very impressed with the last one....more punch than the 600N and track like on rails in FFF. By the way, he is one of the best pilot in Quebec.

[Gscott]

The 3D has no oneway issues. The only Knights I recall having oneway issues was the original and possibly the Sport. Plastic may be lighter but my 3D with the "bling" aluminum bearing blocks weighed the same as my 600n Pro. Add the bearing blocks and 2mm frames to the 600 and it would be heavier. The plastic landing skid mounts not only give a break point in crash they provide structural integrity to the frame. On every 600n I have seen to this point I can rotate the front frame where it connects to the skids. You can't on the 3D. It's funny that the Knight tail is a joke compared to the 600's. At least the 3D's tail doesn't depend on a ball link being screwed into an area with alomost no plastic. It is also no durable. My 1st 600n Pro developed a bad tail wag after less than a gallon that required replacing the entire grip assembly to get rid of it.

I'm glad you never crash or have unlimited funds but when I want a $300-$400 crash I'll fly my Avant.

[Ticidytoc]

Add the bearing blocks and 2mm frames to the 600 and it would be heavier. I'm sure it would be, got a TT and a nice metal tail case to sport around with.

Like I said Gscott, I'm really glad you finally found a ship that makes you happy. We would love to see some vids of you wringing out your Knight and Avant !

Enjoy !

[SP4772]

you guys got no one to talk to on the knight section?

Its a rear beast that knight not many owners, still glad you took the time to pop over to the far better section the Trex 600N section that is. We even got a better section LOL

Just to remind you that you came on the Compass forum and showed interest on the K3D to replace your Hirobo! Don't be affraid of the growing crowd of K3D...

[Jeff0r3]

You guys are bickering. Look at it like this...Both helis are great....I think most would be happy with either. You have to look at the amount of each sold and amount of time on the market. I think that the Compass 3D is pretty much Solid right out of the box, but alot of testing came from the Sport model and they found the combination that works. The 600N is new technology, and will have issues. Maybe they will produce a 2nd Version and all issues will be accounted for. I think maybe that Align worked diligently on their efforts to get this mass produced machine to the public. I think the eagerness of the consumers pushed them to release it a little prematurely. I think the testing they did was solid, but didn't reveal all issues. Do I think that all issues have been resolved, almost definitely, but they are probably going to release the fixes in a way that generates more revenue for the company. Like a newer model or a kit that fixes all faults without mentioning any faults :)...I think that the availablilty of parts is very appealing to all of us as consumers because most LHS will carry those parts vs the Compass models. But that doesn't mean that it is any better as a product, it is just distributed better from the Company that produces it. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. As of today, I personally would prefer the Knight 3D. I like almost everything about it right out of the box. But ask me in a year, and if I were to purchase one, I'd probably go with the 600Nitro. Because I know Align will make it right... Just my .03 cents


Jeff

[Finless]

I am tempted to move this to the Knight Fourm.... This is the Trex600 forum not the Knight forum. Trex600 users dont go to the Knight forum and argue which is better thus putting down the knight so why should Trex600 users put up with it here?

Others agree?

Bob

[ozace]

move away:thumbup::hammer

[Ticidytoc]

Ya Bob move this post outta here, it's just going to suck more trolls in.

[SP4772]

Ok Bob, maybe it slipped a bit but my main concern writing that post was to make my mind between the two machines not to start a war here! If i hesitate between the two models, maybe it is because i do not hate the 600N, don't you think? I have seen all you vids and they are great and learned a lot. I fly my 450SE and realy like it and i want to moove to nitro now (keeping my little REX...). Yes, there is a lot of threads in the 600 forum because of the polularity of it but i read too much things about this and that on the 600N that need to be fixed. Is it normal to hesitate before making that expense$$$$? Yesterday, i was still deciding between both looking at the helis at my LHS. It sounds like i consider the 600N too?... No offense to anyone. Just feedbacks and opinions needed. If i ask the question in the Knight post, they will tell me to buy Knight and the same here with the 600. Just need good arguments from you 600N guys to make my mind clear.

[Finless]

No offense to anyone. Just feedbacks and opinions needed. If i ask the question in the Knight post, they will tell me to buy Knight and the same here with the 600. Just need good arguments from you 600N guys to make my mind clear.

OK well based on your above post if your looking for opinions based on facts and experience, I will throw some in and not try to sound biased as best I can. Both helis have pro's and con's and those can be argued until the cows come home. Thus my input is based on other things to consider as a entire package if you will.

Is it normal to hesitate before making that expense$$$$?
Yes it is but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and make the choice.

I built and flew a Knight a little over a year ago. I built if for a friend. It was a good heli but did have a few problems too. What heli doesn't at first? I don't now if they are fixed but I had all kinds of clutch issues and issues with slipping with how the clutch and hub bolt to the engine. I also had some tail hub issues with the grips locking up causing tail kicks. I dont now if those problem are fixed now or not. You might ask the Knight guys.
So now we are hearing of some issues on the 600N. I expected it! I think most people did or already saw areas that could be improved when they built thier heli.
So for my input lets call this stuff a WASH ok?

OK.... Having flown a Knight I would compare it to a Hirobo Evo 50 as far as how if feels and quickness (although Hirobo is better quality parts than Compass or Align). Nothing wrong with that feel and quickness but the 600 is more agile in my opinion. Will you go wrong either way... I dont think so as they are both 3D machines.

As far as manufacturing quality between the two... I would say it's about the same.

Finally my thing is parts and availability. This is what makes Raptors and Align popular. You can get parts almost anywhere and many times at your local hobby shop. Knight 50? Hmmmmm....... I have to drive 32 miles to get to MTA hobbies for parts if I had one. I go 3 miles for Align parts. I am lucky as if I had a Knight MTA is not far but I think other people around the country are stuck doing mail order.

So just consider that. The knight is not as heavily marketed which is why it is not as popular and thus parts arent as easily gotten.

Finally I look at the history of Align and Compass. One thing that I think everyone will agree on is if there is a design problem, part problem, etc Align turns that stuff around FAST and without a doubt they listen to the customer base and makes changes! I cant say the same for Compass as far as changes and listening to customers input. Now that can be a double edged sword as with Align you thus are buying "updates" a lot. I see that as a good thing though as in the end you will end up with a heli that is super reliable and just flys well. Look where the 450 start and what it is now. Same with the 600e improvements though the 600e was pretty good out the gate. I have yet to see a heli go out without having some problem or weakness in an area. Nature of the game I guess.

So in the end both are fine heli's and worth having! I would tell you I would chose a Knight over many other helis out there but for me because of the above it's a Trex 600n for those reasons. Still you wont go wrong with a Knight either if that is what you truly want. It is a damn decent heli at a good price.

So if your having trouble deciding dont just look at the machanical issues between the two. They each have thier own pluses and minuses. Look at the entire package e.g. parts availablilty, design turn around, history, popularity and availablility of support from others, etc, etc, etc.

Good luck on your decision and happy flying,

Bob

[Gscott]

Curious Bob what Knight did you fly? Also, I'm sorry but I can't agree with the statement that Compass doesn't listen to it's customers. Here is a short list of what they have done over the last 3-4 months for the 3D:

1.) Some early customers reported the fuel tank holders rubbed on the tank. All the kits now come with the fuel tank holders rounded off.

2.) Phase ring. The early phase ring did not allow the full 13+ degrees of pitch. Within weeks a new phase ring was being included in all new kits.

3.) Paddles. The early paddles were good but a little heavy. Compass redesigned the paddles and the new paddles are included in the new kits.

4.) Dampers. The factory dampers are very stiff and can wobble at lower head speeds. Compass made softer dampers available and also provided a simple fix on their website that solved the wobble issue on the harder dampers.

5.) YS50. When the YS50 became widely available this summer it was discovered it was 1mm thinner than the OS50 and the engine support ring was too big. Within a month Compass had a new YS50 mount available.

6.) Canopy. Some users complained about the canopy. Compass came up with a brand new fiberglass canopy with a new plastic version to follow.

There is also the oneway issue. The early Knights had issues with the oneway. For the 3D Compass redesigned the oneway to incorporate dual bearing support and eliminated the lockup issue.

Most of these improvements are included with the newer kits. Contrast that with Align who has had problems with their dampers, oneways, fans, G10 frames, etc... There are replacements for some of these but they must be purchased separately even if you buy a newer kit.

[Finless]

Well I cant speak for recently with Compass as I indicated it was a year ago and was just a Knight 50 so that is what I was referencing. Many moons later I noticed the fan mounting (the ali spacer slipping on the fan) to the motor still hadnt changed so in my mind they hadnt done any updates. But if you say they are updating etc quickly so be it! Good that they are.

Most of these improvements are included with the newer kits. Contrast that with Align who has had problems with their dampers, oneways, fans, G10 frames, etc... There are replacements for some of these but they must be purchased separately even if you buy a newer kit.

So Compass gave users the fixes and upgrades FREE? If not I see no difference??? If I had bought a Compass before these issues I would have had to buy the updates. Trex600 just came out so as I said above I expect changes.
So again we should consider things like this a wash. I am sure the Compass is still not a perfect heli just as the 600 isnt. I dont think there is a perfect heli with nop issues! Again argueing this stuff is worthless in my mind.

My bottom line point was to look at the entire package, availabilit of parts etc, user base and support knowledge, company progress and longevity, etc etc etc to HELP SP4772 (http://www.helifreak.com/member.php?u=17462) decide which heli. It's not just about the problems and "who's heli is better". As I said I think they are both fine helis and worth having. Put it this way he wont go wrong with either heli based on what I have seen. Since SP4772 is having a problem deciding he should look at all aspects.

Finally my last comment and again this has to do with popularity but 600N's were all over IRCHA. I think I saw one or 2 Knight 50's. You cant leave this fact out of your decision making process.

Bob

[Finless]

Anyway even though this has turned into a discussion about which to buy rather than which is better bashing, I still think this belongs in the Compass forum so I am moving it there.

[fsusmithc2]

Most of these improvements are included with the newer kits. Contrast that with Align who has had problems with their dampers, oneways, fans, G10 frames, etc... There are replacements for some of these but they must be purchased separately even if you buy a newer kit.

Did it ever occur to you that fixes and updates are pushed out as separate purchasable parts first and later incorporated into the kits? What if the updated part ends up not working out? What if we end up not buying them? You think that might influence their decision to include them in the kits or not?

It's just plain business and I don't fault Align for doing it one bit. They make an update after listening to their customers, release the update for individual purchase, and after a good response from those using the new parts, they collect all the updates and start including them in the kits.

Align has a very big following and they are always looking for ways to innovate and improve. I've only been flying helis for about 7 months now and allready I can see that. Some people don't like it though and prefer a heli that is perfect out of the box and never changes after initial purchase. I'm sorry but upgrades happen and it hits the early adopters the hardest. If we wanted something that hasn't changed in a while, we'd all still be flying Raptors (and some of us probably still do).

Edit: It took me too long to write this post and gave you enough time to post twice Bob. Sorry if I re-stated anything. Good move on taking this to the Compass forum.

[Ticidytoc]

Lets not forget the Knight 3D was available for purchase before the 600N. The 600N has been out 3 months and we now have a metal fan, new dampeners, thicker frames, shorter canopy lugs, a gyro mount, a .50 pipe is available and my LHS has 600N specific repair parts.

Like Bob said they are both good ships, give Align a chance and I'm sure you will see improvements along the way just as you saw with the Compass models.