electric or fuel

[static]

never having flew before, which should i start with?

[kygirl]

well, i'm new at flying as well....some people would suggest starting off w/gas powered but im starting off with an electric...an axe cp to be exact...it seems to be a pretty good one! if u can fly an electric then the gas powered will be easy when u switch or at least thats what everyone says...good luck!

[Bayou Talker]

The gas and electric helis fly very comparably if they are the same design. As with anything else, if you compare apples to oranges you will not get the same result. For example a TRex 450SE will perform better than a Blade CP even though they are nearly the same size.

As for which to start with, they both have their strong and weak points. Electrics are quieter but the cost of batteries is high to start. Nitro fuel is cheaper to start but they are louder and produce smoke. That being said, the cost of fuel and batteries for an equal number of flights ends up being about the same over the lifespan of a battery. Flights are longer on a nitro but there is no cleanup after. To stay flying with an electric requires several batteries so you can fly while another one charges. It really comes down to what you are comfortable with and have the budget for. Whatever you choose, resist the urge to buy one of the "cheap" helis that are out there and spend a little extra for a quality machine. You will save money in the long run and be happier with the results.

Good luck

[kgfly]

I think you will find this thread useful: http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=37764

This question has been asked many times, if you do some searches you will find plenty more information and opinions. For some questions there is no right answer, it depends a lot on personal preferences and circumstances.

If after some research electric seems appealing there is an exciting new product due out in October which IMO looks set to possibly become a very answer to the next question which is usually "Which heli to start with ?". You might find this thread interesting: http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=42504

[static]

thanks for the help, ill read up on it first before i do anything. but i was looking at the axe cp ep rtf as my first option. any ideas on that

[kgfly]

thanks for the help, ill read up on it first before i do anything. but i was looking at the axe cp ep rtf as my first option. any ideas on that

You will get many opinions about what is the right first heli. I think in general most folk would agree with the following statements:

* Bigger = more stable, easier to see, easier to fly, easier to learn, easier to maintain. The smaller the heli you start with the harder it will be to learn

* Start with a sim and learn to at least hover on the sim before buying a heli

* Under 325mm main blade/700g is to small/light to fly outside except in complete calm

* RTF helis often have relatively poor quality electronics and expensive parts. This can lead to them having a higher cost of ownership than some other options

* RTF helis with brushed motors and NiCd/NiMH flight packs rarely fly well or for long. In some cases, despite the advertising claims, they cannot even get off the ground let alone hover or fly. Going brushless + lipo from the start is far more likely to lead to a happy outcome

* Belt-drive tails are by far the best design for learners. They are tougher, less damage prone and more durable than either shaft drive or direct motor drive tails.

====================
So my opinion is that if you can wait, the Blade400 450-class heli with its brushless motor+ESC, lipo battery, belt-drive tail, 325mm main blades and the Spektrum radio included really will be a far superior option to an AXE CP RTF. It will be more stable, easier to learn to fly, likely to need fewer upgrades, has a far superior radio which is likely to be suitable for many more helis/planes beyond your first. Yes, as a package the B400 will be about twice the price of the AXE CP but IMO you will be far more likely to have a successful first experience and could easily save the difference in terms of upgrades and extra repairs that are likely to be needed for the AXE CP just to get to first base.

I would guess that to start our with the B400 all you will need at first is the B400 package (~$400), a second battery (~$35 to ~$70) and an CellPro4s charger (~$75 - ~$100). Allow another $100-$200 for some tools and spares and off you go :)

Sounds like a lot ~$700 compared to what looks like $200 for the AXE CP but for the AXE you would probably need at least a brushless upgrade, two lipos, charger, tools and spares. If we eliminate the common elements from the comparison (one lipo, charger, tools and spares) then you have $400 vs ($200 + brushless upgrade) = ~$300-350 but the B400 includes the DX6i+AR6100 vs the throw-away FM radio that comes with the AXE. So in the end you are probably looking at around $100 difference between the two which is not much to pay for the bigger, more stable, easier to learn heli with the far superior radio.

[JasonJ]

I wish that Blade 400 would have been out when I started all this. Talk about cost, here is the money that has been spent at my house: $125.00 for a Walkera 22e rtf (the wife bought it as a b-day gift). I have since bought 4 tail motors, several blades, another 22e transmitter because the first one mysteriously burned up, some head parts, have spent around $120.00 messing with this thing, and it still sits on the shelf, flightless. I bought a Falcon 3d rtf for around $325.00 to the door, and other than a motor pinion issue that was fixed free, I have had zero problems with this heli despite a few crashes. I bought a used Futaba transmitter with 2 recievers and four servos for $100 to the door off of ebay and that has really helped the Falcon see it's potential, and now I can add more heli's. I have a $100 E-sky Lama V3 (but I did not pay for it-gift from sister) that I use strictly as an orientation trainer (and that is working brilliantly), and a little Air Hogs Havoc ($29) just for messing around. Not to mention the extra 2100 lipo ($72) I bought for the Falcon, the balance charger I got off of ebay ($50), the computer power supply I bought to build a 12v dc source for the balance charger ($10).

Soooo, $931.00 has been spent, some by me, some by the wife, some by the sister, so I can have fun flying helicopters. As you can tell, that comes dangerously close to a T-rex. Add a few hunskies and get a simulator, and you spare yourself what I have been through.

That $470-ish for the Blade 400 is a real bargain, and looks to be pretty much the perfect beginners heli, with room to grow more heli's into the fleet. I had thought the Falcon 3d was about the best ready-to fly even with it's shortcomings, but the Blade 400 smokes the Falcon. Just do not buy anything with a separate tail motor. You will live in misery, I promise. You want a bird that spends the majority of it's time flying, not waiting for parts. I have had only a few days downtime waiting for the new motor from Hobby-Lobby (free of charge), otherwise it has flown with little drama several times a week since the beginning of May.

I should have my Trex 450se by the time Santa does his thing in December...

[Jermo]

I'd not pin all my hopes on a blade 400. Eflights RTF setups are ok but historically not worth writing home about.

We'll wait and see what happens with the 400. I started with Sim/BladeCX and had to wait a month or so to get my T-Rex450 for Christmas.

After seeing all the junk people try to fly I have zero regrets going T-Rex450.

Experience is a good teacher. I started with the plastic T-Rex and ended up with carbon fiber+metal head.

I'm not one to worry much about bling. For me it was all about reducing cost and maximizing flight time.

I constantly ask myself why some folks insist on re-learning the lessons other people have learned and shared. If you buy an RTF anything expect phantom failures unless you check all connections and metal to metal threadlocking..etc.

At the end of the day is RTF worth it? For me it's not worth it. Cheap electronics rarely work out well in the long run. If you'll just upgrade/seperate the electronics then why not just do it right to start?

anyway.. have fun with whatever you decide.

Some of us are in the hobby to fly....others just want to play with choppers.

[JasonJ]

I'd not pin all my hopes on a blade 400. Eflights RTF setups are ok but historically not worth writing home about.

We'll wait and see what happens with the 400. I started with Sim/BladeCX and had to wait a month or so to get my T-Rex450 for Christmas.

After seeing all the junk people try to fly I have zero regrets going T-Rex450.

Experience is a good teacher. I started with the plastic T-Rex and ended up with carbon fiber+metal head.

I'm not one to worry much about bling. For me it was all about reducing cost and maximizing flight time.

I constantly ask myself why some folks insist on re-learning the lessons other people have learned and shared. If you buy an RTF anything expect phantom failures unless you check all connections and metal to metal threadlocking..etc.

At the end of the day is RTF worth it? For me it's not worth it. Cheap electronics rarely work out well in the long run. If you'll just upgrade/seperate the electronics then why not just do it right to start?

anyway.. have fun with whatever you decide.

Some of us are in the hobby to fly....others just want to play with choppers.

I agree. I know a guy who is interested in the hobby and he knew I was in the learning process and wanted to know what to get. I gave him a link to this site, and told him if he was serious to just get a Trex 450 and a sim and be done with it.

[kygirl]

I guess that everyone has their own opinions about helis. However, I have the Axe CP and it seems to be wonderful...my boyfriend LOVES it more than I do. We took it out to the field Sunday and had a pretty good time with it...BUT, the smaller the heli the harder it is to fly. I have a question for you though...considering that you're starting out (as well as i am) why would you want to start with something easy? I prefer to start out with a rather hard heli and learn to fly so then, I can later fly with an easier heli. For example, if you can fly a heli that's sorta hard to control then once you change to a bigger heli that's easier to handle, won't you be better at it?
For the money, I would recommend the Axe CP...it's cheap! Learn with the small, harder stuff and crash it and then move on to the bigger, easier helis?
Just my opinion though...then again, I'm just a beginner too....hope I didn't offend anyone!
God bless!

[kgfly]

Hi kygirl,

You cannot offend by sharing an opinion, especially one soundly based on your own experience :)

The main reason we normally advice folk to go for larger, more stable helis is because it can be very discouraging to be crashing frequently and very hard to progress. For some folk the challenge of learning on a twitchy little heli is fun and as you say, if you learn on a small heli, a larger one will seem easy by comparison. For others, the stability of a larger heli is what they need to get through the early learning stages without too much trauma.

There is no right way, no perfect heli. It is all just a hobby and folks should do whatever makes them smile the most. IMO, having flown helis during my first year from as small as a Piccoz to as large as a Logo10 it is very clear to me that bigger = easier and buying the biggest heli you can afford to own, equip and maintain will be the best plan for most people.A 450-class heli is the smallest I would advise anyone to get, especially if they were considering flyng outside. The other aspect is that cheap-to-buy does not always mean cheap-to-own. Some of the cheap RTF helis have more expensive parts than larger, higher quality birds.

Good to hear you are enjoying your AXE and no doubt, having caught the bug, you will be moving onwards and upwards soon :)

[Bayou Talker]

The main reason we normally advice folk to go for larger, more stable helis is because it can be very discouraging to be crashing frequently and very hard to progress.

I would fall into that category. After I had been flying for a short time with a Raptor 50, I bought a Blade CP. I found it to be the worst handling thing I could think of. After crashing it a few times and repairing it, I sold it for a lot less than I paid for it just to be rid of it. If I had purchased it as a first heli, I probably would not be doing this today. I would quickly have trashed it and gone on to other, less stressful hobbies. Unless you have a hobby shop with parts a short distance away and lots of extra cash for them, most people will have a lot of down-time waiting for repairs. I don't have the patience for that kind of hobby.