question for the bergen experts

[miami6]

I was wondering Could a bergen Intrepid EB gasser , Or Observer be converted to run a flybarless system -- and Would that help in an AP Ship in which way ? just curious


maybe even an E bergen flybarless would have less mass thus making it at least a little bit more efficient


andres

[ErichF]

I don't know if this is a Bergen specific question. The one and only advantage I can see with adding two more gyros, electronics, and related connections (all points of failure/RF noise) is that you can change the stability settings of the rotor system actively in flight. You can turn down the ratio for moving around, and turn it way up when making a shot.

I have yet to see a flybar system stop working in flight, nor cause any RF noise. I'll stick with the flybar for now.

[MarkWebber]

I originally converted my Raptor 50 with the intent of converting my EB. I wanted to avoid the chicken dance that can result with my 810's on spool up/down in windy conditions. I did this with an AP2000i and 2 401's on the cyclic. Now, there is no flybar to be caught by the wind. In rate mode, it flies exactly as it did with the flybar. HH is a different matter completely. While it is very stable in the air in gusty conditions, it is a very different feeling to fly.

You will need the gyros, a swashplate driver and different linkages from the swash to grips. Since the Bergen line is SHW1 style, you don't necessarily need a mixer but the electronic rotor phasing is a handy feature. However, you can set phasing with the swash driver with a bit of effort.

It's not a terribly difficult conversion but there are factors to consider. There is a thread about such conversions in the AP section here.

[miami6]

thanks for the reply guys


maybe DJ has a set up with a logo flybarless that he can share some info on an electric AP set up


eliminating the mechanical flybar sure lightens up the head so less power is required right


but if you have to auto i guess you will have less energy in the head to keep them spinning



i guess still to complicated for me but interesting

[v22chap]

I am by no means an expert ,,but have been playing with multi bladed /flybarless heads for a little while now and flybarless and stable machine do not go in the same sentence in my humble opinion..... unless you add the helitronic mixer and gyros to go with it ,,,then you are probably talking close to as much weight as what the little flybar causes. I doubt that the little bit of drag caused by the flybar system makes much difference on economy either .
It sure isn't enough weight to matter in an auto compared to the lead weights in the blades ... I don't see much help from it other than maybe what ErichF said about turning it up for hover and lower for flying around and a good auto pilot can do that for you .
Chris should pop in here shortly and he has more experience in the auto pilots ,,which I would think are enough help to do good AP work.

[cbergen]

According to Chandler from Esprit models, and a couple of other experts I have talked to since then, a flybarless system does give some advantage of efficiency, which is particularly interesting for an electric design.

During the testing of the E-Observer, we have noticed a difference in efficiency of different blades, as it equates to amp draw in flight, which of course will dictate the amount of flight time available with a given size battery and paylaod.

Going flybarless may increase this efficiency, giving longer flight times, as long as your not losing efficiency by having to carry more "stuff" like gyros, bigger battery to power the gyros, and whatever other electronic device is needed for stability.

It is something that we will be looking into and testing to offer the most efficient system possible, keeping all pro's and con's in mind.