Any news on the Trex 500?

[erniefritz]

well, whatever size machine Align comes out with next, I'll be getting one. I hope they don't scrap the T500 but a Nitro Trex 700 Pro would go really nice next to my Nitro Trex 600 Pro. :)

[Finchwizard]

What I saw was the Trex was being tested and moulded and things but that was in what? March? To be released June. Surely they still aren't doing it.

Then I heard around Christmas for it. So, I'm not sure what's going on now.

I would certainly love something bigger than the 450, and smaller than the 600.

Typically if the 500 came out, was there a few little issues along the way with a first release? (Only just getting into Helis so wouldn't know). I mean the 450SEV2 looks like it's getting pretty damn good.

Or are Aligns Helis pretty good from the start?

[Finless]

Well here is another thing to consider.... JK is "in the house" and you know he will want a 90 machine since he left synergy..... THAT is a driving force for sure. A 90 WONT mess with sales of a 600N, 600E or the 450. I BET you dollars to donuts the 90 is next for those 2 reasons. The 500 will come later even though most of us agree the 500 will sell better.

Put yourself in their marketing chair with JK as the lead pilot.... What would you do?

Think about it :YeaBaby:

That's my "best bet" anyway.....

Bob

[bryguy17]

i just hope that if they release a 90 that its as well priced (in both parts and kits) as the rest of their stuff. im starting to look around for something bigger to get down the road, and i would like something of the nitro variety (i like being able to fly over and over again without charging things). it would be really nice if they could bring in a trex700 at a good price so that poor shmoes like me can afford it. maybe a pro version thats blinged to the hilt for around 700, and a cheaper version around 500, kinda like they did with the 600N.

bob does raise a valid point: with one of their premiere sponsored pilots wanting a 90, its kind of an obvious way to go. but keep in mind, with align's design speed, i could see the 500 being not too far behind

of course, i've got plenty of time to sit around and watch everything come out before i have enough money to make a move. until then, its just 450 goodness :thumbup:

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Well I don't agree with most of the nay-sayers so here is my opinion, like it or lump it as you please ;)

500-class and 500mm blades are NOT the same thing
Folks seem to keep getting this mixed up. The 500-class is not 500mm blades (which is 30-size, over 2kg and 475-550mm blades) it is under 2kg and 400-450mm blades. That might sound like nit-picking but it isn't since it relates to overall heli size, weight and most importantly, how big the batteries need to be and how much sky the average Joe needs to fly it safely. So the Logo500 and Hurricane550 are NOT competitors for the 500 class based on size.

A distinguishing feature of the 500-class is that they can realistically be flown using two 3s ~2200mAh packs from a 450-class heli. Usually the sweet spot is more like 4s/5s 3300-3700 but 3s2p 4400 will be fine for learning and sport flying. This is a huge marketing advantage. The H550 tapped into this but I think experience is showing that other than for hovering and gentle FF, it really needs bigger packs, more like 6s 3300 or even 6s 3700, which once again push the cost of flying right up. The Logo500 won't fly on 2 x 3s 2200 packs so again, neither the Logo500 nor the H550 are real competitors for the 500-class space.

The 500-class has huge appeal because...
* Bigger = easier to see, easier to fly, easier to learn and is more stable in wind...
* ...yet still small enough to fly in a local park or even a yard
* Can be flown using 2 x 3s ~2200 batteries from a 450-class heli
* You can probably use the same charger/balancer setup as you do for yor 450
* Doesn't take up much room to store/transport or work on
* Total cost to get into the air (apart from batteries) can be much the same as for a 450
* Parts costs can be much the same as 450

The 500-class is wide open, but beginning to fill in
Until very recently the only choices were the Lepton (good but very expensive, about $600-$700 kit only, no electrics) or the QJ-EP8 (not widely popular, all CNC alloy, expensive parts).

The only other competitor currently in this space that is widely available is the new HDX500. Available in the SE (G10, all cnc alloy, painted FG canopy, FG 425mm blades) or SA (G10, cnc alloy frame blocks and swash, plastic head and tail, plastic canopy, FG 425mm blades). Originally a Lepton look-alike it has evolved somewhat and is attracting attention. The SE and SA frames are both G10+alloy blocks but very different designs offering the buyer a choice of layout to suit a wide range of motors, servos and batteries. Very clever design IMO. Cheaper than a TRex450, it stands out as serious contender as either a first CP heli or the next logical step for a 450 owner looking for something noticably bigger without having to rob a bank for new batteries and chargers.

The RCT500 is shipping first samples later this month. CF and CNC alloy and likely to also have aggressive pricing it looks promising. The SJM500 is due out a bit after the RCT500. A more exotic and very lightweight design it's likely to appeal to a niche rather than the mainstream.

The Dragonus500 is also due out before Christmas. Their 450 helis have a good reputation for quality and robustness so theirs should be an interesting offering.

Still right now the only choices are Lepton = too expensive, QJEP8 = too obscure and not a great heli or HDX500 = well priced, great looker and the design seems to be bedding down well (although there are some problems to be resolved with the plastic head on the SA model).

So IMO there is indeed a much larger potential market for a TRex500 than a 700 but if they don't hurry they will be fighting to build market share (although very well armed with their reputation and distribution network) rather than being the defacto standard which they could have been if they had launched it already.

More rumours
Finally to add to the rumour-mill I saw a post elsewhere claiming the initial "shrunken T600" design had been rejected and a new design developed and this was what had delay it by some months. The post went on to say that first protos were being tested and they were on shedule for a Q4.07 release. Time will tell.
Damn I wish I could type that much.... I'm with kgfly on this one.

My .02 about JK.... I would make him fly what i gave him to fly if I were a heli manufacturing company. Sure I would get his input on R & D but wouldn't let him dictate the future of the company. That's not what they have hired him to do. He is a little man in the big sceame of things and Align is going to do what makes them the most money. That's business plain and simple.

[pmt411]

I couldnt agree more. Align would be crazy to ignore the substanially better market a Trexx 500 would occupy. I believe they arent asleep at the switch, read the threads and take note of the direction and the success of their competitors. The numerous other 500 sized models soon to come to market only illustrate just what a bonanza there is to be had as evidenced by the product output of Aligns competitors. I think we are incredibly gullible if we swallow the notion that Align will get around to the 500 next spring. There will almost certainly be a 500 out soon(probably before Thanksgiving in my speculative mind), and then a 700 this winter or even Xmas. Lets get real for a minute, I am damn sure the company has the savy to work on more than one new product at a time. I have the utmost respect for Fineless and his opinion. However, it is due to his incredible stature and the awe with which people hold him in that has led many on this thread to jump on the bandwagon with Fineless. He is a great guy, very knowledgeable about helicopters mechanics and has been extradionarily helpful to countless heli enthusiasts with his very sage advice and videos. Still, that doesnt mean he knows the mindset of a major company like Align. Just my thoughts on the matter, with all due respect.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

:hug:

[Big Fil]

I wish Align would drop the hammer and go after the turbine market. Make it affordable for us schmoes. Nitro, electric.......pufttt bring on the karosene.

[BruceW]

I gotta say, this thread has worked towards some logical conclusions... but the chicken hasn't hatched yet and we don't run Align, so anything is possible.

As the Dawg said, "a man size" heli is wanted and its possible that Align is trying to get out there close to the release of the Avant Aurora before the market is captured by them. It seems there is some pent up demand for it even though the "R&D" phase has been way too long.

For me, a nitro is out of the question because I can only fly electrics in my area. To fly nitro, I'd have to travel an hour in either of two directions (N or S) and even then I would be trying to fit in with plankers. Maybe I'm not "man" enough.:YeaBaby: I'm guessing that is the situation with many others as well.

If JK is now signed exclusively with Align, then that means he has more pull with the company than if he was split between other companies like ASJ. I'm not familiar with all the models he flies but I'm sure its mostly larger than 450. He probably negotiated a contract to develop a larger model and after coming fresh off the T600N he (and Align) won't want to waste what he learned.

Oh ya (just remembered), we should be seeing the release of those Align scale helicopters soon that had photos posted all over the web recently (Hughes 500, Bell222, etc).

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

If JK is now signed exclusively with Align, then that means he has more pull with the company than if he was split between other companies like ASJ. I'm not familiar with all the models he flies but I'm sure its mostly larger than 450. He probably negotiated a contract to develop a larger model and after coming fresh off the T600N he (and Align) won't want to waste what he learned.

HHhhhmmmmmm.......... Thats food for thought.

[dennis@deetee]

Agree that a 90 size by Align would be a priority. No doubt they will do very well.

The 500 size market is also a potential big one. For the reasons Bob has already mentioned. "Battery Price" That issue has run a lot of folks away from the 600's. I chatted with Jason a couple of months ago. He mentioned the 500 was still in his head and not on his computer at that time. Same with the 700. He did wonder about the potential for a 500. He had not doubt about the potential of a 700.

Heck, I will settle for both as long as they just do it.

They are probably considering covering the full spektrum and constantly evolving all to keep the market pointed to state of the art, availability, and customer service. They have done very, very well up to date. Am sure the future will remain the same.

............Dennis

[Finless]

Still, that doesn't mean he knows the mindset of a major company like Align. Just my thoughts on the matter, with all due respect.


Never said i did.... I am speculating and giving my .0002 cents. BUT I will wager ya a buck on which is first hows that? :)

When the 500 was talked about early this year it was not going to be a sized up 450. This was told to me by Align. Thus it's kind of a new design. Making a 700 from the 600N wont be hard! They could do it using the same 600 design and just enlarging it and beef up stuff (Head and grips, main and auto clutch, etc etc)... Thus not really a clean sheet design and turn around could be fast.
Thats my thinking and probably what I would do if I ran the company!

Again for the other reasons I mentioned already:
2) Align has NO heli in this market space. True they also don't in the 500 class but having the 450 and 600 will keep selling
1) The 500 could eat some sales of the 600E and maybe even the 450. Why? Lets look at pricing.

I will use Readyheli as an example using COMBO to COMBO pricing:
Trex450 SE V2 = $549
Trex 600 CF = $559

So what... Where does the 500 fit between this pricing? Even if you took the battery out of the 450 combo and sold it for $499 as some do the 500 will still be a tight fit.... This is why I believe the rush to get a 500 out thus possibly slowing sales on the other is REAL. A Trex700 wont do that as it is in a totally different market space.

That's my logic for the $1 bet!

Bob

Bob

[joehelicopter]

Never said i did.... I am speculating and giving my .0002 cents. BUT I will wager ya a buck on which is first hows that? :)

When the 500 was talked about early this year it was not going to be a sized up 450. This was told to me by Align. Thus it's kind of a new design. Making a 700 from the 600N wont be hard! They could do it using the same 600 design and just enlarging it and beef up stuff (Head and grips, main and auto clutch, etc etc)... Thus not really a clean sheet design and turn around could be fast.
Thats my thinking and probably what I would do if I ran the company!

Again for the other reasons I mentioned already:
2) Align has NO heli in this market space. True they also don't in the 500 class but having the 450 and 600 will keep selling
1) The 500 could eat some sales of the 600E and maybe even the 450. Why? Lets look at pricing.

I will use Readyheli as an example using COMBO to COMBO pricing:
Trex450 SE V2 = $549
Trex 600 CF = $559

So what... Where does the 500 fit between this pricing? Even if you took the battery out of the 450 combo and sold it for $499 as some do the 500 will still be a tight fit.... This is why I believe the rush to get a 500 out thus possibly slowing sales on the other is REAL. A Trex700 wont do that as it is in a totally different market space.

That's my logic for the $1 bet!

Bob

Bob

They really make their money selling parts-if :Bangthey have another chopper that will sell more parts,IMOP they will "Bring It"!

[Finless]

They really make their money selling parts-if :Bangthey have another chopper that will sell more parts,IMOP they will "Bring It"!

No argument there... My point is solely based on R&D for the next heli and considering the market spaces. I am sure they still will come out with a 500 I just think the priorities have changed since the success of the 600N.

Bob

[bryguy17]

i think align will be a force to be reckoned with when it come to the 90 sized market, as in typical fashion they will probably bring it in a few hundred bucks cheaper than everyone else with cheaper parts. you have to keep in mind that there are a lot of pilots out there that would like to fly a 90 sized bird, but dont want to hassle with the cost. if align was able to bring a quality kit for a reasonable price (maybe 6-700) im sure they would snatch up a lot of market share. i think its sort of an under appreciated part of the market.

like finless said, theres not a lot of room to squeeze a 500 class into their price structure. even then, i bet it would take a lot of sales away from the 450, since you would be able to buy a bigger, more stable heli that can still be used in all the small situations of the 450, for the price of an extra lipo and a bit of difference in kit cost. thats an obvious choice for all but the most budget-minded pilots

[oldschool269]

cool thread guys .
i myself have sold my 450s , in preperation for the 500 ...and am hanging on to the 2 600s i fly. with some coin ready for the next align heli ..i like the brand , so shoot me.

i agree the 600 elect has probably slowed. good batterys are a huge cost,

the highest profit would have to come with more sales, as you coulnt spin a profit unless you moved heaps of units. how many 90s would they sell over a month , to beginners ?? , yeah , a few units to pros and the not so pros , but like serious...

i hope align , or a rep of align is reading our words, but i hope they go carefully, and fill the whole line out , 450,500,600,700 . i think that is the future of align heli division, but its a waiting game ..
i hope they keep turning a Profit ., so the dont sell that divison of the company out !!
and suddenly the 600 parts dont fit quite as well..

helis overall has to be a small market for them , i would say the execs must like them or align woudnt even make them , it would be just more vaccumm cleaners,milk shake makers , and other products for the home . etc,

whats next is a matter of what their members of the board want to go with ...

i hope they go on to do both a 3d gasser , and a turbine , but i dont think this will be the case ...

wouldnt we all like to get a peek at the R&D offices in align right now today ...

i think the 500 will sell more parts and crash more to see a higher need for parts ...
i am looking forward to 08 to see the results.
Jason

[Big Fil]

I will use Readyheli as an example using COMBO to COMBO pricing:
Trex450 SE V2 = $549
Trex 600 CF = $559

Not really a good comparison though as you are putting a fully blinged heli up against a heli with a slightly upgraded frame. Add up CF blades, full metal head, torque tube tail or just metal tail, and metal bearing blocks and the comparison is more true. In actuality the 600CF is a far closer comparison to the 450S CF kit. A 600SE kit would probably be $800-900 and probably upwards of $1000 if you threw in a puffed 6S battery.

[Finless]

OK well looks like I might be wrong then!

Word I got as of today (not telling where) is the 700 will be redesigned and HARD CORE. Not a larger 600 but a NEW design with innovations all over it. Although I questioned how much innovation there could be so we will see...

The 500 WILL be the next heli from Align.

Now do I trust this completely? Nope been hearing that since oh... about March this year..... but based on what I heard.... The 500 will be next. When NO CLUE...

So I was wrong in my speculation. GET READY folks... the 500 IS coming after all! :)

Bob

[kgfly]

The other interesting pricing challenge for Align is not only finding a suitable slot in their existing line up, but the fact that the competition are selling 500-class helis for less than Align 450-class helis. The HDX500SE is a around $50 to $100 less than a T450SE but still comes with G10 frame, CNC alloy everything else, painted FG canopy and FG blades. Similarly the HDX500SA (G10 frame, some CNC, plastic head and tail, plastic canopy, FG blades) is cheaper than a T450S.

Of course Align's reputation and distribuiton channels are powerful competitive weapons which might allow them to justify being more expensive than the smaller brands.

[bryguy17]

well, the sheer ability to get replacement parts will be a great factor in getting people into align 500 sized helis. for the HDX and other 500-sized helis, you will probably have to order parts. also, think of this, the HDX450 also comes with g10 frames and all the bling for 300 bucks. the SEV2 is 500, and i bet it still sells better. theres enough trust in align to offset uncut prices from other heli makers

[BruceW]

If for nothing else, at least all this speculation made some people in the know come out and correct the rumors. Now if it comes out before Xmas then I might reconsider the 10s T600e with a Neu motor I looked at today.

[iwasaseabee]

Waiting for the align 500 myself. As I feel the 600 is bigger than I need. I've been considering other brands but like the aligns. I Bought a used align e600 today with 2 align packs. Hope I didn't buy to soon?

[erniefritz]

thanks guy's for all the posts , hopefully there will be some spy photo's here pretty soon. I hear some ofthe pilots are going over to test fly in the next few weeks. I'm really curious to see what it looks like and how it fly's....

[Finsta]

Damn I wish I could type that much.... I'm with kgfly on this one.

My .02 about JK.... I would make him fly what i gave him to fly if I were a heli manufacturing company. Sure I would get his input on R & D but wouldn't let him dictate the future of the company. That's not what they have hired him to do. He is a little man in the big sceame of things and Align is going to do what makes them the most money. That's business plain and simple.

I could not agree more. I have doubts that a company that probably sells 20 (450s) to 1 (600) nitro birds (of course I am guessing at this figure) is going to go with a larger heli that will sell 1 to 50 when compared to a 450 because they have a pilot that wants to fly a larger bird. The pilot will fly what Align puts out, even if it is a super micro sized heli. 500 sized makes the most sense to me. I know there are people out there that want a larger bird, but the big money is in the affordable electrics I think. it's What got me and a ton of other pilots able to get into the hobby. Actually, I think a gasser would be a better way to go than a 90 sized heli. Now I would go running for one of those from align. Yes, they do need a 90 sized heli as they are only missing out on sales, so perhaps they will come out with both around the same time.

[Finsta]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Future Models
Align is currently set to release two new helicopter models, the T-Rex 500 and the T-rex 600 Nitro Pro. The former is an electric helicopter, larger than the 450 model but smaller than the 600 size model. The 600 Nitro Pro is a nitro-powered version of the T-Rex 600, and shares many major components with its electric counterpart.