Any news on the Trex 500?

[Manol]

I want an Align ELECTRIC 90 sized heli.

[csell]

Hello.

I have been following this thread for some days. I think many consider the T-rex 500, only becauce of the cost of 6s lipos. But instead, people can investingate what is the possibities to get a T-rex 600 at a similar price. Last sunday I wrote this in an another thred:



I want to show an approch to get started with the wonderfull T-Rex 600 without having to worry about the high battery prices and come away from Aligns 6S setup wich calculations show are inefficient compared to 8S setups.


I was in the situation considering to bay 1 or 2 high quality 6S lipo, that is 300 US$ or 600 US$.

I read, that when people bay their first or may be second high quality 6S lipo, many are reducdant to change to a higher voltage setup. And I understand why, the 300 US$ they allready invested in each.

But when people realize a 8S lipo and even a 10S high power lipo setup is more efficient, most had allready "invested" in several 6S lipos and then it can be rather expensive to change.

But lipos are something with a limited time of life. What is the alternative:


Instead I deceided to start this project. So far I am very happy with it.

Already when assembly the T-Rex 600 make space for other motors. Eather bay a T-Rex 600 ALU + rotorworkz G-10 frame or cut in the CF frame as I did, se post #124. To cut in the CF frame costed me 9 USD for a original Dremal 540 Cut-Off Wheel mounted on a original Dremel 402 Mandrel.

Bay a Castle Creations Phoenix 85HV, I used this offer wich include the USB link and with free worldwide shipping to $178.95 ,took 5 days:

http://b-p-p.com/proddetail.php?prod=h_P85hvUSB&PHPSESSID=e7c9727772a903896a434ea0f62d0d4b

I got a ZPower Z50A-800 motor, the last in stock for a reduced price. But others can bay at:

http://www.tppacks.com/products.asp?cat=10 to $124.95 but for the moment Out of Stock.

or

http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=36_40&products_id=1903 to $119.99

Or an alternative http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=36_40&products_id=1355 to $97.78

I think the NEU mid priced motors also is a option to consider.

How much did it cost so far. when I add the prices together I end up with prices in the range from 286 to 308 US$


When designing we have to make compromices. When using lipos the posiblities are very limited, 6S and may be 8S.

with a123 cells from DeWalt packs we must choose between 10s, 12s, 13s, 14s and even 15s. But we have the advatages we can start with 12s and increase the cellcount as our flying skills improve. Where to start, I deceided on 12s.

How much do they cost. I received quantety discount and ended up with free shipping, when I got mine on ebay.com

I payed 450 US$ for 5 DeWalt packs, that is 9 US$ each cell giving 108 US$ pr 12s a123 pack.

If you don´t want to build 3-4 a123 packs from start, you may be can bay some DeWalt packs together with friends or other members in your RC-Club.


So I succeded to get a high quality Castle Creation Phoenix 85HV ESC, A new more powerfull and cooler ZPower Z50A-800 motor together with 2 pcs 12s a123 battery packs, wich I charge in 15 min. for 500 US$.


Expensive? No. An alternative was to bay 2 pcs 6S lipo now for 600 US$, and continue to bay 300 US$ lipos once in a while.

Now I can bay more 108 US$ 12s a123 packs or increase to a higher cellcount if I need. and that for 9 dollar pr cell.


I se the 300 US$ part of it, for the new motor and ESC as an investment, not an expence.

With this investment I can change to a dual 4s or 5s high quality lipo setup if and when my flying skill reach the limit of todays a123 technology. I use the word change, as my new ESC and motor setup actually is the same high voltage setup used by several dual 4s pilots. I will just have to bay the 2 pcs 4s lipos.

2 pcs FLIGHTPOWER 4S EVO25-3700mAh ( total 8S ) only cost a little more than one FlightPower 6S EVO 25 4900mAh, and more important by making it this way, my way, I only begin to use the high priced high quality lipos when my flying skill demand it.

Regards Carsten

With this approch it is possiable to get started with the T-Rex 600 at a cost, not higher than a T-Rex 500 class.

What can make it even more attractive: If Align will introduce new low cost T-Rex 600 ALU or GF kits without motor and ESC. If you agree, I think we shall consider to promote it by make better written instructions and may be even videos for this approch.

I think peoble are reading the T-Rex 600 forum because the want a 600, not a comming 500.

Regards Carsten

[BruceW]

Since most people are following this thread for info on the 500 I thought I'd post a link to another thread with updated info just found over on TheTrexForums site.

There is also info on the release of the 700... possibly around spring 2008.

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?p=414598#post414598

[fogger]

And more "news"...

http://www.thetrexforums.com/index.php?topic=2287.0

in particular check out Kyna's post.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

I want to know we havent seen any prototypes.

[BruceW]

It looks like Align is finally letting pictures leak out and we'll probably start seeing videos as well. Its possible that since this is a new design and not a scaled down 600, the early prototypes were constantly changing and something they weren't happy with. Either way, it looks like the flow of pictures will start happening any time now.

If the 500 ends up needing different batteries than two 450 packs in series then I might just go with a 600E on 10S (2x 5s 3300) since I have the area to fly it near my house.

[Finless]

Well if it is 425mm blades (which I was told would really be 450-455mm) then it will fly on 2 3S packs or a 4S pack and even possibly up to 5S. This is what the Lepton can use so it would seem it should work for the 500 as well.

2 3S packs on the Lepton was pretty decent but certianly not a power monger. 4S packs rocked pretty well and 5S was a freakin ROCKET (more than I needed). Thus if the size and weight is that of the Lepton this will probably be the same choices.

Bob

[erniefritz]

just found these pics of the new Trex 500 Canopy

[BruceW]

Well if it is 425mm blades (which I was told would really be 450-455mm) then it will fly on 2 3S packs or a 4S pack and even possibly up to 5S. This is what the Lepton can use so it would seem it should work for the 500 as well.

2 3S packs on the Lepton was pretty decent but certianly not a power monger. 4S packs rocked pretty well and 5S was a freakin ROCKET (more than I needed). Thus if the size and weight is that of the Lepton this will probably be the same choices.

Bob

On my 450 I really like the power boost after going with the Scorpion HK2221-8 from the 430L and really don't want to step down from that type of performance. Since my desire is to re-use batteries from the 450 I may have to wait until others (hint hint) test out the power platform and report back if 6s(2x 3S 2200-2500(EVOLite)) is adequate. I might be happy if that provides comparable power between a 430L and 430XL/Scorpion/Neu1107H and flight times are in the 5-8 minute range.

If two 4S packs in series provides a great punch for the 500 I might be tempted to switch my 450 over to run on 4S. These are tough choices and I don't think I'll be one of the first to get the 500.

Uggh, this is going to be tough until more specs comes out.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

If two 4S packs in series provides a great punch for the 500 I might be tempted to switch my 450 over to run on 4S.
thats going to be to way much. I would think a single 4s 2500mah would be the hot ticket.

[BruceW]

I think Bob was talking about two packs in series for each of those cell counts. Two 3S 2200mAh (= 6S 2200 ) packs provides more power than a single 4S 2500mAh pack (265g) and he said that was only adequate. The 10S Trex600 I've been looking at has 2x 5S 3300 (884g) packs so I'm guessing a 2x 4S 2500 (530g) for the Trex500 would be a nice power house.

Weight combinations might look like this:


Possible Trex500 table
2x 3S 2500 (EVOLite) = 360g
2x 4S 2200 (TPX) = 440g
2x 4S 2500 (FP) = 530g
2x 5S 2070 (TPX) = 544g
2x 5S 2200 (TPX) = 564g

Current Trex600 table
1x 6S 4900 (FP) = 724g
1x 6S 5000 (FP) = 799g
2x 4S 4350 (FP) = 888g
2x 5S 3300 (TPX) = 884g
2x 5S 3700 (FP) = 956g
Based on these combinations, it should be safe to assume that power is proportional to the weight unless we're talking about the Kong Power batteries.:YeaBaby:

[kgfly]

Other 500-class helis (Lepton, QJEP8, HDX500) can all be flown on 3s2p, 4s or 5s. In some cases 6s requires something other than the stock motor since there is not enough range in the gearing to go up to 6s.

Clearly 3s2p (or 6s1p if supported) is hugely appealing to the massive installed base of 450 owners. It is also usually a compromise with adequate but not strong performance, especially as the weight gets up in the 1.8-2.0kg range. These size helis so far have shown that 4s is usually the sweet spot for very good power and reasonable flight times and 5s for really high performance. Those looking for extreme power go for 6s.

Align have no doubt thought carefully about the upgrade path for 450 owners and I am sure the T500 will have a stock setup that uses 2 x 3s packs either as 3s2p or 6s1p.

It is very unlikely that the stock motor/ESC will support 8s operation as this pushes into the HV space requiring more expensive ESCs, and different motors from those likely to be suitable for the 3s-6s range. However I have no doubt some power-hounds will be experimenting with CC45HV+Zxx motors within a week or two of the heli becoming available ;)

It has been a long wait and it will be a fun few weeks as more information trickles out, then much anticipation as the supply pipeline gets primed and the tap turned on. :)

[BruceW]

I forgot about the 6S upper limit on the Align ESCs so that would mean anything over 3S would be run in parallel. 4s2p 1800 (370g), 4s2p 2500 (530g) or 4s1p 5000 (498g) might be the sweet spot but that is going to have a higher current draw which could create heating problems. With a 4S setup I think we'll start seeing the 25C and 30C rated batteries getting their upper limit discharge rating tested.

I would prefer to go with a 6S or greater setup so I'll probably stay away from the stock Align ESC if its still capped at 6S and a 6s1p 2500 only provides adequate performance (shorter flight time).

I sure hope Align took into account the cache of batteries that people have for their 450 when designing the power specs.

Question, does a FP EVO25 4s2p 2500 have the same discharge rating as a 4s1p 5000 which is equal to 125A? Or, is the FP EVO25 4s2p 2500 limited to 62A (same as a single battery)?

[kgfly]

Bruce,

The other 500-class helis I have seen hover around 250W, FFF around 500W and push up into the 700+W range for 3D, with extreme setups reaching 1000W. Converting those power levels to current gives:

3s: 23A (hover), 46A (flying), 92A (screaming peak).
4s: 18A, 36A, 72A
5s: 14A, 28A, 56A
6s: 12A, 24A, 48A

Using 2 x 3s1p 2200 = 3s2p 4400 20c/30c pack conservative ratings are 66A (690W) continuous and 105A (1100W) burst so they can certainly handle the load.

Using 2 x 3s1p 2500 = 3s2p 5000 18c/28c pack conservative ratings are 67A (700W) continuous and 110A (1150W) burst so they can certainly handle the load.

Using 2 x 3s1p 2500 - 6s1p 2500 18c/28c pack conservative ratings are 33A (690W) continuous and 56A (1180W) burst so they too can handle the load.

Using 2 x 4s1p 1800 - 4s2p 3600 20c/30c pack conservative ratings are 54A (760W) continuous and 86A (1200W) burst so they too can handle the load.

So any of the common packs typically used today on 450 helis (3s 2200, 3s 2500, 4s 1800) can be combined to fly most 500 helis quite nicely. The same is likely to be true of the TRex500.

Note that for learners and scale flying running a 500-class heli at ~2100rpm gives significantly longer flight times, typically over 10 minutes compared to the 6 to 8 minutes more normally seen for hard flying at 2400rpm or higher.

[BruceW]

Kenneth, thanks for the breakdown on the power ratings. I haven't followed the 500 heli-class that much so that is good information to have.

I guess you answered my question about discharge rating for batteries in parallel with your numbers.:)

Bruce

[Laurens]

My experience is 3s 3200 and 4s 3700 in a 500 size heli (robbe Spirit Li). Both will 3D very well, but on 4s 3700 FP its a beast. Also flying time is very acceptable then.

[brovic777]

I wish Align would hurry up and give us a real picture of thier Trex 500 instead of this CAD drawing.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o91/******777/Pics2/500-03CAD.jpg

[rotary65]

Well, if they're going to be flight testing prototypes on Oct. 10th, then it won't be long before we have photos. Videos shouldn't be much longer than that either assuming tests go well.

I'm not fond of the LG - seems narrow and tall (angle? maybe it's the relatively wide spacing?) and the canopy seems tilted upwards. Probably just the angle. The head looks to be a 600 head shrunken down. It has straight (not stacked frames). Interesting. Looking forward to more.

[oldschool269]

The above photo looks a little like a 600 nitro .

Jason

[Mavdriver]

More pics please

[oldschool269]

OK so these guys added the 500 to their price list
http://www.wattsuprc.com.au/product_detail.asp?pid=500

so it cant be far off now , ohh its killing me ., LOL's
the 500 or a nitro 600 for christmas ???

for the 600 launch they did this two weeks before the 600 was here ... i wouldnt think the 500 wouldnt be that far off...
BEFORE NOV !! damm , only 1 month to go , should have this one cranking by christmas..LOLs
Jason

[Bobbyk]

Does this means come Black Friday, we are all going to stay at home and have a good sleep in and wait for the T500 to be release soon after that.

umm!!

[Razor_Racer]

Uhg.. the 500 looks ugly! IMO its the ugliest in their line of helis, hope that CAD drawing isnt what its going to be. Oh well, if the price is right it will still sell.. and some aftermarket canopies would hopefully come too :D

[brovic777]

Uhg.. the 500 looks ugly! IMO its the ugliest in their line of helis, hope that CAD drawing isnt what its going to be. Oh well, if the price is right it will still sell.. and some aftermarket canopies would hopefully come too :D

It can be the ugliest heli in the world, but people will still buy it cause its Align.

For me, its its uglier than the Swift 550, then its hasta la vista for me, cause the Swift defines the word UGLY for heli's.

[Hulley]

Patiently waiting. OK Is it here yet?