Z30 or Z20 motor?

[bstock]

the 475 blades are heavier than the 500s?

I have a set of each coming from John @ readyheli to see which I like better... but I was hoping the 475s would give me a higher head speed... and more flight time. if they are heavier... I may not get that increase in flight time I am hoping for.

[BL]

I have come to the same conclusion that the Z20 is the best alround motor for this model.

BL, have you tried the shorter 475mm blades? I found there was alot less of a tendancy to bog with the shorter blades. Stability is also improved as the gaui 475mm blade is 80 grams as apposed to 500mm stock blade at 65 grams.

I have not try 475mm yet.

It improved a lot when i changed to 14T pinion, it doesn't bog that much with 14T and is now acceptable for me.

[tornet999]

I have been using Stock 890kv, GAUI 1.5kW 1100 kv and during last 2-3 weeks Z30A. I can tell you that Z30A is the best of them all, it runs cool, and I even get longer flighr time on 70-80% throttle compared to the GAUI motor (with same heli/throttle) AND it is future proof since there is raw power available when needed. I higly recommend Z30A, I dont really understand why anyone would not select Z30 since the price is the same as Z20.

The extra wheight is of course the only drawback, but I have never noticed it in either flight time or flight behavior.

[BL]

Thanks a lot tornet999 for the information.
You have longer flight time was comparing the stock Gaui motor or the 1.5KW motor?

I have another option which is a motor from Thunder Tiger and I heard they are the same as Z30-1100kv.
http://www.thundertiger4u.com/ripper-outrunner-heli-431130h-p-13093.html?osCsid=5adb23e6cb93bc2f9133adcd306ccf68

The price is much better at my LHS.

Is anyone can confirm or has tried this motor?

[Kepler]

I have been using Stock 890kv, GAUI 1.5kW 1100 kv and during last 2-3 weeks Z30A. I can tell you that Z30A is the best of them all, it runs cool, and I even get longer flighr time on 70-80% throttle compared to the GAUI motor (with same heli/throttle) AND it is future proof since there is raw power available when needed. I higly recommend Z30A, I dont really understand why anyone would not select Z30 since the price is the same as Z20.

The extra wheight is of course the only drawback, but I have never noticed it in either flight time or flight behavior.

It would be great if you tried a Z20 and compare this aginst the others also. For me a head speed of 2000 rpm is plenty and by keeping the head speed down just a little plus the fact that you dont need to dial the ESC down adds up to what I see as the best combination of long flight time and reasonable performance.

However, I have not tried the Z20 motor yet so I dont know first had how it will suit me in the real world. I have however tried the Gaui 1100 kv motor and didnt like it much. I found the head speed disconserting and the reduction in flight time unacceptable.

So my combo is or will be: 14 tooth pinion, 475mm blades and short boom, 2 x 3C Hyperion 3700 lipos, and hopefully the Z20 motor. This should be good for a safe 8 minutes spirited flying.

[tornet999]

Well I know someone who tried the Z20 but bought the Z30 later since the Z20 was lacking power he wanted to have. I have noticed several people moving from Z20 to Z30 on different forums also.

But all in all the Z30 seems to be a very good choice also (if not the best ;) no question about it.

I got longer flight time compared to the GAUI 1100vk/1.5kW by the way.

[Kepler]

My mind was all made up on the Z20 and now torrent999 has put doubt in my mine. Thanks mate!!!

Decided to have another go with the Gaui 1100 kv motor and try and get the RPM down. Dialed in 75% governer and still those blades (500mm carbons back on) are tuning real hard but man the power is sooo nice. No bogging no matter what I do but flight time has been knocked about. I use 3700 packs and I typically put back 3200 on charge. The Gaui 1100 kv motor sucked 3200 in 5 1/2 minutes of semi hard flying and the motor was 170 deg F at the end of the flight. That sort of flight time is not my goal but the power on tap tends to make it worthwhile.

So maybe the Z30 is the go. Is 6 1/2 minutes at 2300 rpm on 3700 packs a reasonable expectation?

Also I am using an Align 75amp ESC. What is the best timing for the Z30 and Gaui 1100 kv motor?

Tom Viper suggested that the Align 75amps ESC didnt work very well with a Z30 motor and lost 60% power. Have other people found this or was this a one off?

Last question. Will a 14 tooth pinion leave enough clearance on the side frames for the bigger Z30 motor?

[tornet999]

I compared the figures I got this week-end, and it seems that for same setting I get 5% less power consumption in average with Z30A (vs 1,5kW 1100kv GAUI), not so much but quite nice. I can not say anything about your questions in regards to rpm since I have not yet installed my eagletree. 14T and Z30A is no problem, had just to remove 1-2 mm plastic from the frame.


My mind was all made up on the Z20 and now torrent999 has put doubt in my mine. Thanks mate!!!

Decided to have another go with the Gaui 1100 kv motor and try and get the RPM down. Dialed in 75% governer and still those blades (500mm carbons back on) are tuning real hard but man the power is sooo nice. No bogging no matter what I do but flight time has been knocked about. I use 3700 packs and I typically put back 3200 on charge. The Gaui 1100 kv motor sucked 3200 in 5 1/2 minutes of semi hard flying and the motor was 170 deg F at the end of the flight. That sort of flight time is not my goal but the power on tap tends to make it worthwhile.

So maybe the Z30 is the go. Is 6 1/2 minutes at 2300 rpm on 3700 packs a reasonable expectation?

Also I am using an Align 75amp ESC. What is the best timing for the Z30 and Gaui 1100 kv motor?

Tom Viper suggested that the Align 75amps ESC didnt work very well with a Z30 motor and lost 60% power. Have other people found this or was this a one off?

Last question. Will a 14 tooth pinion leave enough clearance on the side frames for the bigger Z30 motor?

[Kepler]

Went for another fly this morning and things just didnt seem right. Power was balistic and the roll rate insane. So I got my taco out and measured the RPM at 75% governer. 2550 rpm!! Strapped on my E meter to take a few measurments. 34 amps in the hover and peaking at 85 amps at full climb out. No wonder I am chewing up batteries.

Now the instructions clearly state that the standard kit is fitted with a 14 tooth pinion and as such I have never checked it but with the above results, it was time to count the teeth. You guessed it, its a 15 tooth pinion. I am kicking myself a bit for not picking it up earlier but altleast I know what is now going on. So a 14 tooth has been ordered today and I am looking forward to more reasonable head speeds and an increase in flight time.

I wonder how many others out there think they are running a 14 tooth but actually have a 15 tooth supplied.

[BL]

I also have the same problem, I also heard that the stock come with 14T.

I realised it when it bogged a lot during full throttle climb out then re-count it was 15T.

I dun think 15T is suitable but it work well with 14T.

[BL]

Went for another fly this morning and things just didnt seem right. Power was balistic and the roll rate insane. So I got my taco out and measured the RPM at 75% governer. 2550 rpm!! Strapped on my E meter to take a few measurments. 34 amps in the hover and peaking at 85 amps at full climb out. No wonder I am chewing up batteries.

Now the instructions clearly state that the standard kit is fitted with a 14 tooth pinion and as such I have never checked it but with the above results, it was time to count the teeth. You guessed it, its a 15 tooth pinion. I am kicking myself a bit for not picking it up earlier but altleast I know what is now going on. So a 14 tooth has been ordered today and I am looking forward to more reasonable head speeds and an increase in flight time.

I wonder how many others out there think they are running a 14 tooth but actually have a 15 tooth supplied.

Kepler,

Do you think 16T with 61T spur and Z30A-1100kv is good enough for the HS?

Based on my calculation, the above settings is about the same HS for stock motor with 14T, I find this HS is good enough in compromise between flight time and performance.

Anywhere, I have put on order Z30, 16T and 61T .

[Kepler]

Could be a little slow BL.

Although the stock motor is advertized as a 850 kv motor, it is closer to 950 kv. So on a 14 tooth pinion you were probably doing just under 2000 rpm. The 16 61 combo is going to drop you down another 200 rpm with a 1100 kv motor. Might make the heli a little sluggish but you will never bog it down.

Worth a go though. I will be interested to hear the results. Easy to go back to a 14 42 combo if it ends up a bit slow on cyclic.

[bstock]

hey BL...

please let us know what kind of flight time you get out of that combination (and which batteries & throttle curve you are using at the time).

that may be the ticket for those of us trying to get max flight time with basic sport flying now... and then as we get better and want to move into more performance.

Rather than getting the z20-980 to start with now... and then moving up into the z30 later.

I was also going to get the z20... until Kepler chimed in on his experiance with the z30. Be good to hear how his/ the 14t makes a difference in flight times and amp draw.

Hurriken... did you get your z20 motor yet?

thanks - Brent

[Hurriken]

Hi Brent,

Just got my Z20-980 today!:) Got it installed and spooled it up a couple of times, but haven't "officially" flown with it yet. Had eye surgery today so I'm grounded for a couple of days yet. Hope to fly it this weekend, and get some Eagle Tree data to side by side compare with the Gaui 850. I was running Gaui motor @ 85% Throttle w/ 16 tooth pinion tached out at 1975 getting about 7 mins on 2x 2200, have the 14 tooth on the Z20 which should give me about the same headspeed according to calculations. My plan is to fly out a set of packs with the Gaui setup and get data, change to Z20 and match headspeed by tweaking throttle curve, then go up to 15, then 16 tooth on Z20 matching headspeed. Then compare amps, flight time until 10.7v on alarm, motor temp, and battery temp. This should give me a pretty good idea of what to settle in on for my final setup.

Hurriken

[BL]

Sure, I will let you guys know the results with eagletree.
Hope that I will receive the parts next week.

My current stock setting with 15T was 4:30min and 14T was 5min.
Hope that I will have 5min with the Z30.

Added: 2x 2200mAh 25C Lipo, 85% flat throttle with governor

[BL]

Hi Brent,

Just got my Z20-980 today!:) Got it installed and spooled it up a couple of times, but haven't "officially" flown with it yet. Had eye surgery today so I'm grounded for a couple of days yet. Hope to fly it this weekend, and get some Eagle Tree data to side by side compare with the Gaui 850. I was running Gaui motor @ 85% Throttle w/ 16 tooth pinion tached out at 1975 getting about 7 mins on 2x 2200, have the 14 tooth on the Z20 which should give me about the same headspeed according to calculations. My plan is to fly out a set of packs with the Gaui setup and get data, change to Z20 and match headspeed by tweaking throttle curve, then go up to 15, then 16 tooth on Z20 matching headspeed. Then compare amps, flight time until 10.7v on alarm, motor temp, and battery temp. This should give me a pretty good idea of what to settle in on for my final setup.

Hurriken

I'm surprised that you have 7min with 16T, which is impossible for my case.

Is there something wrong with my setting?

[Kepler]

With the 15 tooth and 2000 rpm I get about 71/2 minutes sports flying and hover.I then put back 3200 into my 3700 mah packs. Current draw is around 24 amps in the hover with this setup.

Hurriken, I look forward to your results with your methodical approach.

[bstock]

Thanks Hurriken for taking the time, and doing all of that work in getting the data for all of us!!

Feel Better!!!

Brent

[Hurriken]

Well, I don't know what to say about flight times, I've always had decent flight times on my Hurricane. I have 3 sets of Lipos that i run: TP 2100 Pro-Lites, EVO 2170, and Kong Power 2200. I fly until my volt alarm starts to go off @ 10.7v, and usually put about 1700 Mah back in during charging. I am running the short boom, and CF blades, mainly hovering, and recently slow forward flight. Everything is stock plastic from the kit other than CF blades, and short boom. Now the blades might be the issue, I'm running 470mm MS Composite blades, and they are light, don't know the exact gram weight but will check. I'll put it this way they are light enough I would be very concerned if I had to auto the heli! I'll weight them just for fun, and post.

I still plan on doing the Eagle Tree testing this weekend weather permitting.

[BL]

May be the following determine your longer flight time,
- CF blades
- flying style.

[bstock]

yep... the light 470 blades are helping flight times.

I just got a set of 475s woodys I am going to try this weekend. They won't be as good as those 470s though.

Hurriken - which ones are they... and where did you find them?

thanks - Brent

[Hurriken]

Hi Brent,

I got my original set from FXAeromodels originally for an old ECO-8 that I had. When I first got the Hurri I threw them on there to give it a quick try before I balanced the stock 500 woodies. Liked them so much that I kept them on. Had a crash a couple of weeks ago and broke one so had to replace, so I know they still have them.

Here's the link: https://www.fxaeromodels.com//product_info.php?cPath=49_50_67&products_id=1674

Here's a weird story on the replacement blades.

I usually don't worry too much about checking the weights, and balance on CF blades since they are usually matched at the factory. Probably should but just lazy. Put the new blades on, after giving the rotor head a good going over after my crash (had to replace the flybar, 2mm out of round). Spooled up the heli everything was smooth as usual, did a short flight, maybe 3 min. no issues, the next night charged the batteries, and went out to burn a set. Hurri spooled up as normal, flew until my timer went off at 7:00 min, everything seemed fine at speed, then as I started to spin down I got one heck of a wobble as the speed dropped, bad enough that I almost thought it was going to tip over on its own before it stopped. I thought that maybe my blades were too loose and started to fold on spool down, but this was not the case. Did a slow spool up, and the shakes started right away, but disappeared as headspeed got close to hover speed. Removed the blades, and tore down rotorhead looking for something bent, mainshaft fine, flybar all balanced and looking good. Did a spinup with just flybar on, and everything was smooth. Also threw on my balanced 500 woodies, and it spooled up smooth. (By the way 500 woodies, and short boom = squirelly tail) Threw the carbons on the balancer, and discovered one blade way off, had to add an entire strip of tracking tape to get them back in balance. Now everything is smooth again. The only conclusion that I can come to is that there must have been a piece of something loose inside the rotor blade that finally worked its way to the end of the blade due to centrifugal force, and screwed up the balance. This was a weird one!!

I'll weight my 470 carbons compared to my 475 woodies at work tomorrow and post weights for you.

Ken

[bstock]

Good Stuff Ken - Thanks!

[Mikej]

(By the way 500 woodies, and short boom = squirelly tail)

Ken
Ken,

What do you mean by "squirelly" Please ? - I have just got my 550 flying (I'm a relative beginner - doing lazy 8's and gentle FF) and I had been impressed with how quick the tail is - am I missing smething ??.

Thanks,
Mike

[Hurriken]

Brent,

FYI,

CF 470 MS Composite blades 114.5g/set

475 GauI woodies 161.56g/set

Mike,

I don't notice any negative characteristics with the 500 blades/short boom in FF, only in hover. In a hover my tail seems to bob about up, and down / side to side a bit, I think due to the propwash off from the longer blades. Not that it is out of control, or even hard to control, just different, and I don't see this with the 470 CF or 475 woodies.

Ken