Quik World Gassers any good?

[Sonny]

I've been considering a used Quik World gasser. One of Erwins. I'm whating for the owner to return from Colarado to discuss it in more depth. I'm not even sure what model it is by name. But the price is $1300. And it looks very well built. Sorry I can't coment on more details. But would like to know more in general about your opinions of their stuff or bussiness dealings. Thank you.

[Sonny]

No one knows hu?

[victornhi]

Check the QWW forum on RR. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

[Sonny]

Finless mentioned that the customer support sucks. I know first hand that Irwin can be a real #%s. I'm not far from Coppersburg where his store is. I think I'll be passing on this. Thanks.

[tr0cks]

i bought a rtf gasser from irwin traded within 1 month i got a lemon an irwin made no good on any issues, just attitude.

[JEEPWORLD2002]

check out the new review on rr. I would think you may want to get a known good flying heli and i dont think qww can live up to that, but read for your self.

[shuttlepilot]

Quick gassers fly fine if they are built properly. I have over 70 hours on a OD 26 without one mechanical failure. Unfortunately your posters on here have an issue with Irwin, not the heli. Trocks so called "lemon" had flown several hours before he recieved it without issue. No one listens to the posts from the above guys on RR anymore concerning Quicks....so they go and post here.

[DavidH]

Well over the last several months I have been to several of the largest heli events in the USA. I can say I have not seen a Quick/QWW heli at any of them. Just held an event that had 175 registered pilots. I walked the flightline and pit area several times over the three days. I never saw any Quick/QWW helis that were being flown. If someone even had one there it was not sitting out in the open. Don't know what the problem is with them, but they are not very popular from what I have seen. Even at IRCHA Jamboree every year, the only Quick/QWW helis I have seen is the ones that HHI has in there booth.

David

[JEEPWORLD2002]

but then again shuttle pile doesnt ever have problem in the open, but he does talk to irwin every day so will he ever have a problem ? probally not so cant count on his advice but from what i ve seen they cant keep good people there which shows the biggest problem there not honest ?? so give them a shot they are giving kit out and if u like them buy it if not send them back its called the pepsi challange its all over rr ? I wont be tring any thing else i ll take my chances on a other guy like rjx and mikado. my luck has seemed to change when I left qww and went to align & mikado so I will stick with them. Got $ down for the trex700, my 600n is flyin great 50+ flight not even a screw loose. rex 500 is on it 20th fligh, not a glitch. and hopefully I will stop being lazy and setup and fly the logo this weekend.

[Sonny]

Well I ended up buying the Gasher Pro used for $1000 back towards the beginning of december. The owner came down from $1300. It has a 611 gyro on it, 4 9252s (one for the throttle), QWWs labeled 700mm SABs, Zenoas 265, Zimmerman pipe. So I figured it might be worth it regardless of whatever might show up. The owner and some of those who know him said the motor hasn't even been broken in yet. I went thru everything and reset the setup. It has the upgrade tail box with belt drive. The standard box someone said had some issues. I haven't seen one up close in detail. The head is limited to +-10 degree do to linkage binding. That's were I set it. There's a reduction lever between the flybar and mixing lever linkage. Everything seems very robust on this machine. 3mm CF frame sides. Bearing holders and drive gears are all quite nice and seem up to the job. I've just put a Fromeco Sahara regulator, AR7000, 2600ma Fromeco LiIon in. Yesterday I fired it up for the first time. Some carborator issues. I took the carb apart, it looks very new. I resealed the head intake gaskets and tightened things down better there. I'll be putting one of those aluminum units in place of the plastic collar. After simplifying the fuel hoses to reduce retrictions I fired it up again this evening. It ran much better. There's something to be said about those aluminum intake header collars. It was dark outside so I didn't get to fly more than a hover. Tomarrow I'll be tweeking it up more thurouly. If anything I can tell at the moment, the head seems to have more moving parts then I would like. Untill I get it in the air more.:dontknow I'm figuring that If I run into any issues that I don't like like maybe the head setup, I might just throw a MA head or something on it. Everything else seems really solid. The guy that sold it to me did the build. I'll be stretching it to 800-820mm at some point. Irwin has the conversion stuff to do that handy. I didn't buy this heli from QWW so I don't really know how smooth or not the initial sail was. But it's built like a brick $#ithouse. So with this heli anyway I can say that maybe the head performance remains to be seen. But everything else is beautifull. It seems heavy. Rotor world says 13lbs. I haven't weighed it. Not trying to endorse or back anybody or company. Just my experience sofar. Irwin is odd but he's been nice to me sofar...sofar...I'll keep the experience posting as it goes.

[DavidH]

Is this the rotor head you have on it?

http://www.ewtech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=hhi&Product_Code=HHIEX1000

If that is the head. that is a copy of a rotor head that Ted Schoonard of Miniature Aircraft designed back in the early 90's. I used the MA rotor head ( 0840) for several years. If that is the head your using above in the link. You should be able to get more than 10 to 10 on the pitch. But also that head was designed for contest flying. So if HHI copied it verbatim, it should have about 3 degs on coning angle in the blades .

David

[JEEPWORLD2002]

"my experience sofar. Irwin is odd but he's been nice to me sofar...sofar...I'll keep the experience posting as it goes"

Good luck with that, For ur sake I hope it continues but chances are it wont. The head if it is silver is their newer head. If i know the heli right it has heavy duty linkage on the head ? silver ball joint ? Any how the heads are very simular the one linked and the silver body, they are both a dual spindle head :confused: They are ok for hovering thats about all they tend to have a lot of flap and tend to pitch up in ff and are to slopy to do any kinda acro. Last and final warning when qww has there cheap knock off parts made the tooling is dull and threads are real sloppy Best to use green locktite with these hellis. and clean and locktite every thing. Just take a cap screw and feel the slop in the threads.

edit added link to newest review, pg5 says it all in the conclusion >
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t414350p1/

[Sonny]

Is this the rotor head you have on it?

http://www.ewtech.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=hhi&Product_Code=HHIEX1000

If that is the head. that is a copy of a rotor head that Ted Schoonard of Miniature Aircraft designed back in the early 90's. I used the MA rotor head ( 0840) for several years. If that is the head your using above in the link. You should be able to get more than 10 to 10 on the pitch. But also that head was designed for contest flying. So if HHI copied it verbatim, it should have about 3 degs on coning angle in the blades .

David

Hi David. No it's not that one. I don't have a digital camera handy. But the main head block looks somewhat egg shaped with flat sides. It has seperate spindles for feathering. It has all the rest of the linkages that is shown in your link, including that reduction lever between the flybar and mixing arm. The engine is still not running right enough to want to do more then hover with it. So I'm not able to coment on it's flight charichaturistics beyond hovering. Learning how to tune this motor is going to take alittle more work than I realized. The main shaft is 10mm so if I have to put a different head on it then so be it. Hovering is reasonably stable. Not as solid as my Trex 600. Tho I can fly decently inv and backwards with the 600 I haven't got this thing beyond normal flight mode and hovering. So head rpms are not dialed in yet. The tail kicks just alittle too often from the motor not being right to want to get close enough to use the Hanger 9 micro didgital tach that I have. So my main focus has been on getting the motor right. I don't know anyone around here that has experience with Zenoas except Erwin. I might just have to resort to him. I've watched the videos from the man with the stator gators a number of times. That helped alot. I have experience with English motorcycle carbs (Amal). This heli has got the walbro carb. I've got it close. But it's not right yet. The throttle curves are resonably correct. Of course the Zenoas performance has little to do with QWW. I have a farilly comprehensive Shurline lathe and milling machine setup if I end up having to fabricate anything. Except for bearing holding blocks I will probably look for other companies (MA, TT, etc.) for anything that's close and can be adapted. Unless of course I'm impressed with this once I get the motor right. And manage to hold a good relationship with Erwin.I don't care too much for the slider yoke setup on the tail. Seems alittle sloppy. If worst comes to worst, This will be a good way to come up with something interesting and Frankenheli. The frames and basic structure are rock solid. But in all fairness first things first before I fall for any prejudgemental mind states.

[Sonny]

"my experience sofar. Irwin is odd but he's been nice to me sofar...sofar...I'll keep the experience posting as it goes"

Good luck with that, For ur sake I hope it continues but chances are it wont. The head if it is silver is their newer head. If i know the heli right it has heavy duty linkage on the head ? silver ball joint ? Any how the heads are very simular the one linked and the silver body, they are both a dual spindle head :confused: They are ok for hovering thats about all they tend to have a lot of flap and tend to pitch up in ff and are to slopy to do any kinda acro. Last and final warning when qww has there cheap knock off parts made the tooling is dull and threads are real sloppy Best to use green locktite with these hellis. and clean and locktite every thing. Just take a cap screw and feel the slop in the threads.

edit added link to newest review, pg5 says it all in the conclusion >
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t414350p1/

Thanks there Jeepworld. I'm all ears and eyes on this when it comes to any insight. I've had to use a different screw and extra washers for the reduction lever between the flybar and mixing arms. Irwin said to just locktight it because the radial bearing in the lever would pinch when the screw was tightened. :thumbdown: Some washers and a longer screw fixed that. I asked him what was up with that and he said that's the way these things were done. I said why not set it up with a slightly larger ID on that bearing and use a shoulder bolt or washers so it can be tightened properly. He just shrugged. The only other assembly that I hope holds up is the one way bearing. Looks robust but time will tell. Most of what remains to be seen is weather or not the head works well or not, like you said. That'll be easy to change. Might have to drill a different Jesus bolt hole in the shaft for whatever I change it to. Or cut down the length of the main shaft etc. Maybe even go flybarless with some other head setup.

[DavidH]

I've had to use a different screw and extra washers for the reduction lever between the flybar and mixing arms. Irwin said to just locktight it because the radial bearing in the lever would pinch when the screw was tightened. Some washers and a longer screw fixed that.

A spacer between the bearings and then a small washer on bolt on each side. Then you can tighten the bolt as tight as you want and not pinch the bearings. That is how it is done on most helis.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. Look at the bell mixer and the bolt going thru it. You will notice there is a spacer between the two bearings and then a small washer against the head of the bolt. Then a small washer between the mounting surface and the bearing.
http://www.ronlund.com/images/plans/xlse/head.jpg

David

[Sonny]

A spacer between the bearings and then a small washer on bolt on each side. Then you can tighten the bolt as tight as you want and not pinch the bearings. That is how it is done on most helis.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. Look at the bell mixer and the bolt going thru it. You will notice there is a spacer between the two bearings and then a small washer against the head of the bolt. Then a small washer between the mounting surface and the bearing.
http://www.ronlund.com/images/plans/xlse/head.jpg

David

Ya that's basicaly what I did. Had to run around abit to find the right size washers to use as a spacer between the radial bearings and outside. Just to catch the inner races etc. Got it dialed in alot better today. Still getting alittle kicking. But the kicking is hardly audible in the motor. 4oz of Lawn Boy in a gallon of 87 regular. $3.20 instead of what Collman charges. I decided that I'll keep it in the garage if it stinks too much. Just trying to hear the rpm threshold for the high rev needle. Any one know what the typical rpm is on this motor at the point the high needle starts doing it's thing? Or a general percentage of throttle? Iv'e got about 25% throttle at hover point. Still don't want to do more then hover untill it's right. I appreciate the input.

[Sonny]

Well anyway. He! He! O ya!...2 hardware based insidences today. Just hovering several teeth on the main gear blew out. I had the mesh set fine. Nothing but the most minute touch of play to the pinion. I've set my 600 and sevceral other helis up. I know how to set main gear mesh. The motor is running decently and only had some adjustments to do with the high rpm needle. Nothing much in the way of eratic power there. So I took it to the park (not intending to do anything more then a coupla climouts :smokin:) and fired her up. Feels like the high needle starts to kick in around 25% throttle but probably not completely. Even did an easy slow spool up (the other 4 or 5 hovers as well). About to start lifting and then a bunch of racket and then just motor reving up while the rotor droped rpm. I shut her down :roll:. I noticed on the bench durring setup before that the phasing pins seemed alittle short, but at +- 10 degrees there was still alittle catching the washout base. About 2-3mm. Not much. I did ask Erwin about this back in december when I set the head up. He said you don't need any more. I said we'll see. My 600 is +- about 12 1/2. Well I say this because the heli was responding head wise fine and I didn't have it off the ground let alone crashing. But the washout was turned off the pins as if the pins flexed to the side. There was only 2-3mm catching before and this head had mixing levers binding at +- 10, so I set collective and cyclic pitches just under binding. A very noticable chunking sound when the gear teeth went. But the washout base had to have twisted at the same time from the gear issue :dontknow. The head spins fine with no apparent give in the main bearings. I've heard of the main gear thing happening to others, but it looked robust enough to give it a go. One guy said that he put a MA gear in and seems to be holding up fine. I don't know just how much acetain varies in quality, or if the bigger helis are using something else. Maybe the teeth are larger in other gassers. Haven't seen any others up close. I'll see what Erwin saise about all this and decide weather or not to go elseware for the drive train and head system. I know the teeth were all there before.

[Sonny]

Well folks. I've gotten the parts to put it back together. Apparently a screw was coming loose in one of clutch shoes causing the clutch drum to hange up and eventually took some teeth out of the main gear. Not in an emediately obvious way. It migrated out as it hovered. When I got this heli I went thru everything except (Yes that's right folks. My mistake) the motor and clutch. I did take the crab off and resealed the intake collar better. But liquid fuel systems are new to me and I just didn't think to take the clutch apart..,Oh Well! Erwin was nice. As long as his interest in customer support doesn't wayne with me, I won't be bad mouthing him or his products. I didn't buy this from him, but he sold it to somebody before and made money on it. Now I have it. So I hope he continues to be helpfull. The pitch range issue in the head is somewhat unresolved. David?...Erwin reads these post and brought up a clame that the head design in the link you posted was designed by him before MA was in business. He said 25 years ago. I've got too many things to do to be investigating any of it. Just relaying his comment that he himself brought up. He seems to spend alot of talk on his experience and expertice in a defensive way. I don't really know how much of that's from bad press or self righteous based justifications in his past dealings with others. I'll be only telling it like i see it directly based on experience. Instead of going with the flow of others oppinions. I will keep my eyes and ears open. Thanks all. Let ya know how it goes when I get enought time to do the rebuild.

[DavidH]

David?...Erwin reads these post and brought up a clame that the head design in the link you posted was designed by him before MA was in business. He said 25 years ago.

HHIHeli.com is a division of Hobbies and Helis, Inc.
HHI has been in business since 1984, and specializes in the production of radio control

MAUSA has been in business since the late 70's The X-Cell 60 was on the market in 1984
Before they released the XL 60 , MA distributed Schuter helicopters here in the USA for several years. MA was selling the 0840 head about 4 years before HHI. I was flying the MA rotor head on an XL Pro a couple of years before HHI even was selling a copy of it.

That is pretty much the way I remember it. Of course Ted Schoonard might remember it the same way. Since he is the original designer of the 0840 rotor head.

David

[Sonny]

I hear ya..He, He..It's too bad Erwin doesn't chime in here. It would be interesting to see how the debate would evolve. My main consern here is to see this heli flying and safe (as safe as a helicopter can be). And flying like it should. The head on my machine is what they call the pro version. That link refers to there sport version I believe. I'll be giving it a chance before desiding to change it (the head). Thanks again.:)

[Sonny]

Well I've got the heli apart and noticed a few things that are going to have to be customized. The main gear that I bought from Erwin was the $12 standard replacement. He had a custom machine cut one for in the $30 some odd dollar range. I figured the standard ought to work and wasn't quite willing to shell out over 30 bucks for a main gear. :roll: It wouldn't fit over the one way hub at all. So I chucked it up on the lathe to find out it was 30 some thousandths out of round (the center hole). So I turned it true (on the lathe)with some shaving and got a nice snug fit. He also sold me a carborator collar intake coupling that looks just like the Z-RC unit with teflon gaskets (Who had that design first? And who owns the patent?). There's a thrust bearing at the lower end of the main shaft that seems like a good idea. However the race ring that sits against the radial bearing sits against the radials inner race as well as the outer race. This means that the thrust bearings upper race will drag against the rotating inner race of the lower main bearing (the radial). So I put that on the lathe and turned a coupla thousandths off the upper outer surface of the thrust race so the inner race of the radial main bearing spins free. The clutch issue that seems to have caused the main gear teeth issue was a screw set in some kind of epoxy against the inside of the clutch shoes. Now I don't know if this is standard procedure for adding weight to the shoe to get it to expand at lower rpms or what. But one of the screws (that don't seem to be holding anything) was hitting the inside vent of the clutch bell. Wether or not this is a company thing or the guy that owned it before I bought it used :dontknow. So I'm going to get a replacement altogether. Also the clutch bell is only held in position with the hex starter reciever. The starter shaft that holds the clutch bell will slide down till the bell sits on top of the clutch shoes if that hex socket comes loose. I've drilled and taped two more grub screw holes to secure the socket better. There needs to be a thin washer to separate the tail drive gear from the main gear as well. No mention of it in the manual. The manual mentions to check the clutch runnout but doesn't say anything about how or what to do about adjusting it :dontknow. Maybe there's some ignorance on my part being new to fuel based clutches. I locktighted the front tail drive pully grub screw, but it has some play in it now. So I gotta pull that out and see if there's a flat spot, or make a small one (the shaft isn't that big) to get more authority on that grub screw. Probably have to red lock the whole pully and screw onto the shaft. I better take a closer look at the tail shaft just incase. Untill I get a new clutch it will sit at this stage. Ya know these parts look and seem to be made great. I just see alot of design details that need to be simplified and addressed. This heli could be a great heli otherwise. These details either are overlooked or simply shrugged at and blown off :dontknow. I mean if you gotta fuss around to the point of needing shop machine equipment...WTF! I'll have it straightened out if it means that the design gets an overhaul to the point of non recognition He He...Latter folks

[magxm15]

Unfortunately Sonny, the problems you are having are typical of QWW machines in general - not just the gassers. You are very fortunate that you have the means to re-machine some of the parts, most people don't. I purchased a new QWW .46 pro carbon kit a few years back. It was a nightmare! It had a ton of missing parts. QWW did make good on the missing parts though, I will give them credit for that. My main gear was out of round also, but not as bad as yours. There were a host of other issues that took me quite a while to get straightened out. When I finally got it flying, I was less than impressed with it's performance. It was very stable, but felt heavy in the air - sluggish compared to the Raptor 30 I had at the time. I sold it on Ebay and took a major loss. I was just glad to see it gone. QWW machines have terrible resale value. They say their new machines are better, but I for one, will never give them another cent. Burn me once , shame on them. Burn me twice, shame on me! I'm sure with your ability and resources, you will do just fine - but the bottom line is you shouldn't have had to go through all of this just to get this heli right. Good luck Sonny

[Sonny]

Unfortunately Sonny, the problems you are having are typical of QWW machines in general - not just the gassers. You are very fortunate that you have the means to re-machine some of the parts, most people don't. I purchased a new QWW .46 pro carbon kit a few years back. It was a nightmare! It had a ton of missing parts. QWW did make good on the missing parts though, I will give them credit for that. My main gear was out of round also, but not as bad as yours. There were a host of other issues that took me quite a while to get straightened out. When I finally got it flying, I was less than impressed with it's performance. It was very stable, but felt heavy in the air - sluggish compared to the Raptor 30 I had at the time. I sold it on Ebay and took a major loss. I was just glad to see it gone. QWW machines have terrible resale value. They say their new machines are better, but I for one, will never give them another cent. Burn me once , shame on them. Burn me twice, shame on me! I'm sure with your ability and resources, you will do just fine - but the bottom line is you shouldn't have had to go through all of this just to get this heli right. Good luck Sonny

Thanks there bro. Ya I've been tempted to just get a Bergen or MA airframe and move all the electrics and motor over. At a $1000 it's still a good deal if I do just that. I desided to give Erwin and his outfit a real ernest go. There's still some really nice aspects to this design. I can still just get another machine if need be. But I think I can fix most of this. Kind of an interesting challenge. Even If I put a new head from some other company on it. with some of these issues mentioned, the locktighted mixer levers and week phasing pins It's no wonder QWW has had flight failier issues at some of the flies in the past.

[Bobbyk]

Any more news on the build?

Robert

[Sonny]

Lately I haven't done much with it. I've had most of the main shaft bearings, spacing between main gear and tail drive gear straightened out. I'm thinking about the Kasama head that was designed for the Raptor 90. There's an issue with the front tail drive pully that has to be straightened out. The gear under the pully is loose. I had it blue locktightened before the first hover. But I haven't taken the time to pull it apart and figure a way to improve anything with that. It's loose again. There's play in the tail pitch yoke that I don't like. The pins that hold the arms that extend to the slider bearing seem small for the kind of rpms it sees. there's too much side to side (latteral) play in those yoke links. I've got to get a better set of clutch shoes. Looks like they melted some lead or something to wait the shoes. I doubt the guy that sold it did that. he didn't have it for very long. I put a 600np rex together recently that's been taking up time. But I'll be getting back to it.