500 DX or 500 3D for Newbie

[SteveSFO]

With the suggestion of my heli instructor, Eric Pacheco of http://www.airworksrc.com/, (http://www.airworksrc.com/) I've decided to get a Logo 500 for my first 'real' helicopter experience after the Blade CX2 (and fixed wing RC).

Initially I thought the 500 DX would be the way to go, however, with future 3D aspirations, I wonder if its cheaper to just go ahead and get the 500 3D right away. Then again, if it sustains damage from my learning, maybe its better to just go simple with less bling.

My second contemplation is the setup for a beginner. I'll use top end radio gear with my JR X9303 Tx no matter which heli I get, however I'm wondering about hardware options for a newbie set-up.

So what am I looking for? Pinion options, Rotor head speed choices, best Motor/ESC/BEC/Battery combo (perhaps Z-Power Z30-1100 with a 75 Amp Align ESC and 6S2P LiPo) and blade size suggestions, assuming hover and sport aerobatics. (I think wooden blades are better for my learning purposes but don't even know if wood is an option with the Logos).

I'd be curious to hear suggestions.

Thanks for all comments.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

I would get the 5003D over the 500DX..... you get much more bang for buck. Also you can tame it down with flybar weights and radio settings. Also consider replacement parts. Not much out there right now.

If your going to do a lot of crashing you may be better off getting something common like a T-rex 450 or Mini-Titan. These are both very nice helis and will take you a long way during your learning curve. Parts are everywhere for them and they fly great too. I'd recommend you do one of those helis for a little while then move up to that Logo 5003D later when parts are easily avaiable and you feel ready for the next step.

Just my .02

[SteveSFO]

Thanks for your comments. My opinion about parts availability is the same. I believe that doing a lot of crashing can become pretty costly with the Logos - even if the parts were readily available. I know in the San Francisco Bay Area, I see T-Rex everywhere I go.

The advice I was given is that the Logo is more of a serious helicopter which commands a more serious attitude towards learning while at the same time providing superior stability and aerodynamics. Everything is a trade off I suppose....

In the end I'm a sucker for German technology being from that part of the world myself. And the cost is not super critical at the moment. Downtime while waiting for parts would be the overriding factor. Then again, I plan to invest in professional flight instruction - and am spending time on the sim - maybe this will spare me some of the customary newbie damage.
Steve

[Blackrat]

Personally i agree with lithium , i never learnt to fly fixed wing for fear of crashing the darn thing, 15 years later i built a foamie and crashed quite a few times but at a very low cost , but now i can fly


With the heli, there is no i will crash less if i have this or that, you will crash sooner or later, to me personally it is the cost of the repairs to get the helicopter flying again thats the problem. I recently had a mid air with my mini titan, it cost about £35 to get it going again, if it were any larger than a 450 size it would have gone into the hundreds.

what i feel is that the crash cost is going to slow you down in your learning curve, to have the courage to turn the heli into nose in and hover imo would take a bit more than it does on a 450 size heli.

If the cost isnt a great factor, get both :D the cost of a 450 size heli isnt 'that' much.

good luck either way

[veegor]

As mentioned by lithium .Mastermind behind the STIFFIES BLADE NAME : ) I too agree that it might be wise to get a 450 series too practice on along the way....

You 'll still be learning to fly helis. A crash is going to occur regardless ...its just not knowing when and which heli will be involved.

I too have faced the delima of which heli I should purchase next ? Between the long awaitting Align 500 size heli or Rct -500 (uni-500 size heli) And of COURSE the LOGO 500 3D.

I'm steering more toward the Logo 500 3d mainly ..because the engineering is diffrent , its lighter, It allows plenty of space to put in varying types of electronics componets.

You have the ability to setup many diffrent combination of your sport flying (which I enjoy) And you wont be limited to expansion.

Later on full scale fiberglass bodys, night rigging gear ,and a flybarless head system.
will all fit comfortablly protected in this very unique engineered frame. ..And yeah Eric Pacheco is really a cool guy .
I

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

I totally understand the logo500 3-d is in a league all too itself! my only concern is the availablity replacement parts. if money is not a concern to you and getting parts is not a concern to you then you will be getting the best heli in its class, No doubt! it will be a heli that you will enjoy flying and something that you can grow with! Lets just hope parts be readly availble soon because there is nothing worse than looking at your heli crashed setting on your work bench for three weeks while you wait on parts



the other side of the coin is Mikado is getting more and more of these helis in the publics hands. this means replacement parts will be easy to get soon

just my two cents!

[BruceW]

I agree with the other guys here on this thread about getting a 450 for learning. With some expo and decent head speed, it can be stable enough for learning and if you progress quickly then jump to the Logo 5003D. You'll probably always want a 450 around once you get better so you can try new moves with it without the fear of replacement cost.

There was a phrase floating around this site some time ago saying "Fly it like you stole it!" When I go back and fly my BladeCP, I fly it like on the sim because I don't care if it crashes but I sure care about crashing my blinged up T450SE.

I'm currently in the market for either a Trex600 (10S), Logo5003D, or Trex500 (if it comes out this year). After watching the videos from IRCHA, I'm mostly leaning towards the 5003D but will anxiously be watching for Lithum's threads on his experience with the Logo600. ;)

Checkout this thread and video from RCGroups of a 5003D. Turn the sound up and you can feel the blade power and according to the pilot, its not even optimal yet. If I was just starting out, that blade power would be a little intimidating.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=747996#post8243305

[Ticidytoc]

Ok, having gone this route myself here is my .02.

You will spend a lot of money either way you go, 450 or with the Mikado. I myself would recommend the larger heli for many reasons. One is stability, they are not as twitchy as the 450 class. This can be taken 2 ways, one it will give you more confidence and allow you to relax when flying the larger heli. You can focus more on flying rather than worry about loosing it. The 450 are a bit more "twichy" and take a little more work. This can be taken in a good way, it forces you to work at it. Most people I have run across and talk to end up liking the fact the heli is more stable.

Packs will be more money for the larger heli, parts prices, for the average crash I was spending about the same amount of money for a 450 crash as I was for my 600E crashes. The largest factor was blades, but you can buy inexpensive 500/600 sized blades as well. Logo parts are a little more money, so your crash index will be slightly higher.

If you plan on using a buddy box, then get the larger heli. You will be glad you did once you fly it. After flying a 450 then going to the 500/550 size, everything will feel like its in slow motion. You confidence will go up and you will progress much faster because of this.

450's are neat little helis, personally I do not see them as a training aid for beginner pilot.Many start out with these helis because they feel less intimidated by the size. Don't let this be a factor in your decision making.

If you live in SF then you are close to FX aeromodel, parts should not be a problem for you , IMHO go with the 500.

[stevehonn]

Spares availability for the Logo 500 DX/3D is now getting pretty good in the UK at least, this I know because I keep breaking it :(

The repair costs of the same crash on a DX or 3D would be the same as the 'upgraded' parts in the 500 3D are very unlikely to be damaged in a crash as it's mainly bearings replacing plain bushes and parts like the alloy swash are pretty robust.

[SteveSFO]

Thanks Ticidytoc, kinda what I was waiting to hear.

I will start out on the buddy box with a very competent instructor. Between that and logging lots of sim time, I have a sense the 500 is the right choice. Of course thats not to say I won't get a 450 size at some point - especially because it's metal case fits in airliner overhead bins (as in take-along-fun). But also, as was mentioned by someone earlier, once I get into 3D, perhaps the 450 size is good to have around for doing initial maneuver practice prior to implementation on the larger models. (?)

As I stated earlier in the thread, my prospective instructor recommended the larger helis to start precisely for the same reasons you do. I suppose it really boils down to a mindset, parts availability and to some extent the wallet. I recall moving up in full scale flying - turbine engines were always perceived as exceptional and only for very experienced pilots. Then when I got there, they were far easier to operate than any piston I had ever flown. They were, however, much more expensive to build and maintain.

[BruceW]

Based on your avatar it looks like you already knew what you were getting before starting this thread.:YeaBaby:

Anyway, I disagree with others saying that the 450 is too twitchy to learn on and that parts cost is similar. Many people dial in in enough expo and add flybar weights to make it smooth so that is not a good enough reason to discount it. I came from a BladeCP so I know what twitchy means.

If you think you'll be spending enough time on a buddy box without wanting to fly on your own to get over the initial hump, then yes, a 5003D should be fine. I'm sure that will accelerate your learning curve.

Good luck with the 5003D, it is one sweet machine. Please show pictures when you get it and report back on your progress.

[LITHIUMSTATIC]

Please show pictures when you get it and report back on your progress.

Yes please keep us up to date. Your going to have a blast!

[Ticidytoc]

Do a crash list for a 450 and a 600E, boom, belt, flybar, paddles, skids, etc... Except for blades, tell me how much more the 600 was to fix. I'm sure you will be surprised at the difference in repair cost. You can find 600mm CF blades that cost $5-10 more than the 450 CF blades.

The 450 size is a good bird, but the 500-600 will feel more locked in/solid which in turn will make the pilot more relaxed and he will gain more confidence.

I learn new manuvers on the sim, then take them out to the field on the 600, finally I use the 450 to refine them.

Everyone has their tastes, this is my flavor.

Enjoy !

[BruceW]

To tell you the truth, I am surprised about how close in price some of the more common parts for a Trex600e compare to a 450 but... some others that can get smashed still have a wide separation. Look at the canopy ($65-T600, $26-T450), side frame ($60-T600, $16-T450(2pack)), and the big one is the battery at around $300 if you taco it into the ground. I'm not saying these parts get smashed in every crash but they can be included as crashed items at some point. Even though you discounted blades in the comparison they are something that have a high degree of being busted and that adds a significant addition to the cost if this is happening once a week.

I haven't taken the time to look at equivalent Logo5003D crash parts (which is what this original conversation started as comparing) but my first looks at the 500/6003D with upgraded parts and v-bar mods gave me a shock when looking at prices. I started a table of crash parts vs prices for the T450 and T600e and hope to post it when I can add prices for the Logo5003D.

[veegor]

My goal was to upgrade from my present size heli HDX 450 ......Which has been a very nice bird to learn from . I Plan on doing this next month. This will be my second heli so I figured for what its worth . I would feel more happier spending the money on the mikado parts. At this time rather than buying more CNC parts that add empty your wallet so to often. My .02