SpartanRC DS760 Gyro Review and Setup Vids

[psindrup]

Hi Bob.

If you are laughing at me, I was definitely not trying to "get as much as possible" - but the correct amount of gyro gain. My tail wags just a little, so I believe it is time to turn down the gain, from the initial recommended setting of 74% on the DX7.


Best regards

Peter

[Angelos]

Bob,
the text on the user guide actually continues and covers exactly what you just mentioned>

It is not uncommon to find that the optimal gain value for a helicopter may be a small number such as 35-45%. The small value does not mean that the gyro will be limited in performance. Any gain value performs well as long as it is the optimal gain value. However, a gain below 35% indicates that the mechanical gain of the tail is too high and it is therefore recommended moving the servo arm ball link further in. Similarly if 100% is reached and no tail wagging is seen the ball link needs to be moved further out and repeat the gain adjustment procedure.

Also on a related topic - the mounting of the ball link on the servo arm - which affects the mechanical gain>

We recommend that the ball-link is mounted 13-17mm from the servo shaft unless a different distance is deemed essential for a particular helicopter. Ultimately, the most important factor is the servo travel which ideally should be around 45° on either side of the mid-point (+/-15%). For most servos this will result to gyro endpoints in the range 85-115%. This combination gives a good balance between tail pitch correction speed and available torque. If the servo travel or endpoints are significantly different than this recommendation you may wish to change the ball-link position to restore this balance.

-Angelos

[Finless]

Hi Bob.

If you are laughing at me, I was definitely not trying to "get as much as possible" - but the correct amount of gyro gain. My tail wags just a little, so I believe it is time to turn down the gain, from the initial recommended setting of 74% on the DX7.


Best regards

Peter

Peter the DS gyro works a bit differently than others I have used. Too high a gain shows it in down wind flight before it shows it in just hover conditions. If your getting wag in hover then yea it's too high but also watch how the tail works when it is into the wind as you can get a wag if gain is still too high.

BTW no I was not laughing at you! I was laughing when Angelos posted that topic and the laugh was agreeing with him!

So you know on my Nitro600 with 9256 servo I am running 24% gain! YES that low! but the tail is a rock! Don't over work your tail servo by thinking a higher gain is needed!

Bob

[psindrup]

Hi Bob

Thanks for clearing that out.

I was hovering in pretty windy conditions (for me at least) and I definitely saw some wagging.

Now I have to go back to school to check how the gain is calculated with regard to the "50% mid point" reference on the DX7 :rolling

Peter

[Finless]

Now I have to go back to school to check how the gain is calculated with regard to the "50% mid point" reference on the DX7

Thats easy Peter... JR (DX) works like this
X = gain
(50-X) x 1.44 = true gain

so lets say you have 70 in your gyro menu on the DX.
70-50 = 20
20 x 1.44 = 28.8 or 29% gain in the rounding.

Futaba radios dont do this and if your usng GEAR end points on the DX instead of the gyro menu, it is more 1 to 1 (but not quite). OK?

Make sense?

Bob

[highland flyer]

Hi Peter for A500 DS760 DX7 heres some good numbers to start from. DX7 Align 500 with Futaba 9257 my gain in Tx is 38% Servo horn length is about 10mm.

Start with you rudder endpoints set around 90% for a managable piro speed and increase decrease to suit.

cheers Brian

[psindrup]

Thats easy Peter... JR (DX) works like this
X = gain
(50-X) x 1.44 = true gain

so lets say you have 70 in your gyro menu on the DX.
70-50 = 20
20 x 1.44 = 28.8 or 29% gain in the rounding.

Make sense?

Bob

That makes a lot of sense! :wink:

Having my DX7 set to HH = 74% makes my true gyro sense:

74-50=24x1,44 = 35% true gain

Compared to your setting of 24% on your T-rex 600, it seems quite a bit to high. :smokin:

New setting: (25/1,44)+50=67% :thumbup:

Peter

[Sam2b]

RC Helicopters 101 should be given in high school so we don't bust our brains with all the super education we need just to BEGIN to understand this stuff. Oiy!

[psindrup]

RC Helicopters 101 should be given in high school so we don't bust our brains with all the super education we need just to BEGIN to understand this stuff. Oiy!

Or put another way. If we had listened in high school, we wouldn't have such a hard time understanding this stuff now. :YeaBaby:

Peter

[leeph]

The manual states 'To fly in rate mode set the linkage lengths for approximately 8 degrees tail pitch in the direction that compensates the main rotor torque'.

Does that mean that this adjustment is not required for AVCS flying? TREX 500 manual states setting the tail pitch at 0 degrees when tail servo horn is at 90 degrees, so you get full travel of the pitch slider left and right. If I set the pitch on the blades to 8 degrees while the servo is at 90 degrees, won't there be less throw on that side? Could someone explain why you can't just leave the blades at 0 degrees pitch while the servo horn is at 90 degrees.

Cheers

[TheBum]

In AVCS mode, the gyro is going to push the blade pitch to about 8 degrees anyway, so there's no throw advantage either way. The only way you'd gain greater throws is if the blade grips could be adjusted to have 8 degrees of pitch when the pitch slider is at center.

[Angelos]

The manual states 'To fly in rate mode set the linkage lengths for approximately 8 degrees tail pitch in the direction that compensates the main rotor torque'.

Does that mean that this adjustment is not required for AVCS flying? TREX 500 manual states setting the tail pitch at 0 degrees when tail servo horn is at 90 degrees, so you get full travel of the pitch slider left and right. If I set the pitch on the blades to 8 degrees while the servo is at 90 degrees, won't there be less throw on that side? Could someone explain why you can't just leave the blades at 0 degrees pitch while the servo horn is at 90 degrees.

Cheers

You only need the 8deg adjustment if you want to run in rate mode. However, keep in mind that if rate mode is not set the heli may piro uncontrollably if you accidentally switch to it in flight.

Regarding the recommendation in the helicopter manual, there is no need for the left and right throws to be perfectly symmetrical but see if you can keep them within +/-15% as the user guide suggests. As long as full pitch can be reached on both sides the gyro will work fine.

-Angelos

[Sam2b]

What is the best method of measuring the tail blades to 8 degrees? From the 200 size heli's to the 90 size helis. Is there a common way to measure the tail blades?

[BruceW]

What is the best method of measuring the tail blades to 8 degrees? From the 200 size heli's to the 90 size helis. Is there a common way to measure the tail blades?

Here is an outline of a blade at 8 degrees. Scale it, print, and cut it out and hold it next the boom and blade. You'll be amazed how well your eye can pick up the angle.

[Sam2b]

Thanks, Bruce. How did you ensure this image is 8 degrees? (for curiosity's sake)

[BruceW]

I used Paint Shop Pro and typed in 8 degrees rotation on a section containing the shape.:YeaBaby:

[nikpro]

I bought the USB interface cable and can't get it to work in either Vista or XP; I have downloaded and installed the drivers about 10 times but windows keeps telling me it's an unknown device - what am I doing wrong??

[Fergus]

Just got my ds760 today from revolution models. I know it will have been worth the wait : )

Regards

Fergus

[Big Fil]

Wondering if the metal plate is needed/recommended on a Trex600E. I was happy to find that the gyro itself is quite a bit lighter than the 401 it's replacing, but with the addition of the plate it seems heavier. My bird is slightly tail heavy so it would be nice to lose the weight, even if small, but not at the expense of gryo performance. Anyone else running one on a 600E yet and did you use the plate?

Thanks, can't wait to fly this thing.

[franticf]

Just installed my second DS760 in my Trex 600, both were purchased from Mark Webber. Thanks again Mark. my first one I installed was in the Trex 500. I used the Align pitch gage set for 8 Deg. and sliped it over the tail rotor and aligned the edge of the gage paralell to the boom..

[magicmalik19]

has anyone tried to increase the deadband on the gyro? I know with heavy 3d, all the pitch pumping can lead to slight unwanted movements in the rudder so would increasing the dead band help this?

[Sam2b]

has anyone tried to increase the deadband on the gyro? I know with heavy 3d, all the pitch pumping can lead to slight unwanted movements in the rudder so would increasing the dead band help this?
Yes, that is the purpose of increasing the deadband. Try several settings and let us know how it feels. I haven't done it [yet]. I'm waiting for the rain to finally stop so I can actually go outside and dial in my new DS760 on my Trex450. I'm expecting great things.

[magicmalik19]

i didnt try changing the dead band yet. Last night I did PM bert kammerer and ask him how he set his up and if he changed anything. He said he left everything stock but he did mount it with the metal plate. I had already installed my new ds760 without the metal plate so I flew it like that with all stock settings today. I was getting into it. It flew great. the tail felt solid in the about 30 second flight I had until the pinion got loose and I had to auto it in. Hopefully i'll get to fly the heli this weekend.

[mporlier]

Anyone could share the gain value you are using in a X9303 please. I would like to get close before I go out for the first time.

[th3tick]

Anyone could share the gain value you are using in a X9303 please. I would like to get close before I go out for the first time.

The book says to start with a gain of 30, and to translate that to JR-land, you divide by 1.4 (according to Finless) and add 50, resulting in 71. Dividing by 2 makes more logical sense, but doesn't fit with measured results from a DX7. The difference is small - dividing by 2 would result in 65.

On my T-Rex 500, I started with 74 on my X9303 for some reason which I don't recall, and haven't yet had cause to change it. I've only had it up about 10 flights so far, however.

John