SpartanRC DS760 Gyro Review and Setup Vids

[Gscott]

Mark,

On the 9303 rate mode is any setting of 0-50, with 0% being 100% rate mode gain, and 51-100 is heading hold with 100% being 100% gain. With the 611 on my Knight a gyro setting of about 70% equates to 36% gain on the 611 LCD screen if that matters. In the 9303 gyro menu I can set the gain % independent for each flight mode. How I had it configured was rate mode for Normal and HH for idle 1 and 2. I have also tried using an different switch to toggle the gyro mode (not using the 9303 Auto mode) and the result was the same.

I'm not sure I would jump the gun and ground any helis not having problems. If I had another 760 that did not exhibit these issues I wouldn't hesitate to fly it.

[jester4]

Yeah, I guess grounding a heli for an isolated case seems a bit harsh, there have been no reported incidents that I am aware of until now, but to have a couple of people in the same thread report the identical problem is where nervousness sets in, and not have an explanation in 3 weeks is somewhat unusual as far as Angelos concerned. I do however believe 100% that if there is a problem, Spartan will come through.

[mporlier]

Mark and everyone,

Regarding grounding the heli, I am one of the guys involved with the reset issue and I still have hope it can be resolved. I have not grounded my heli yet. Unfortunately, I have had 2 minor broken parts due to the gyro issue. Today I will still go out and try other settings.

My position regarding the Spartan Ds760? It is a dam good gyro. Although I am asking Spartan for some explanation regarding the reset, my problems started when I changed my Transmitter/receiver. So I am not out of the loop in this thing. I may have done something wrong and I need to clarify this.

Mark, I use to fly my heli using a Futaba 6EX 2.4 and it went perfectly. My gain was at 25% HH. I never use rate. In my X9303 I now will use 62%.

Marc

[Angelos]

Gscott,

1. If it does not go in program mode you are either not toggling the switch fast enough. Or not toggling it at the write time (withing the initialisation period). Or the receiver is not linking fast enough. Follow our binding guidelines in the troubleshooting section of the user guide. Then when you turn on the heli continuously toggle between Rate and AVCS modes until it enters setup mode.

2. The gyro memory is validated with a process called checksum. If data are "forgotten" for any reason the validation will fail and the gyro will refuse to start operating until setup mode is done again and completed. However it is possible that they may have accidentally be adjusted my unwillingly entering the setup mode.

3. The initial firmware of the ds760 was designed not to start in Rate mode. This is the opposite of what you are describing. The only other reason that stops the gyro from initialising is rudder stick not being centered. The majority of the technical support question we get involve the awkward features of the special gyro functions of the radio which cause confusion and often you don't get what you expect on the output. I will suggest that you monitor what the radio sends to the gyro on the servo monitor menu. With the gain set on AVCS mode and rudder centered the ds760 will always start. Also note that if you have used quite a bit of rudder trim or sub-trim can also contribute to the gyro not seeing the rudder centered.

4. The ds760 is a happy to work with low gain as long as it is the optimal gain as we describe it in the user guide. If you believe you have gone too low you may need to bring the ball link on the servo arm further in.

5. I stand by my initial comment. Software is executed sequentially. Once it passes the initialization period it can not get back to enter setup mode. The only possibility I see for this happening 10-15min after power on is that the gyro had completed initialisation during this time for one of the reason stated above at point 3.

The points that you raised don't appear to be related to hardware issues; however we will be happy to test the gyro for your reassurance. Also given that several hundreds of ds760s are clocking 1000s of hours of operation each week we would have known by now if such behavior is common and software related. I think if you make a clean start in setting up the gyro it is very likely that you iron out all of the above on your own... or maybe with a little bit of advice from us.

The only thing here that still requires my attention is the gyro unwillingly entering setup mode. This seem related to AR7000 however I can not replicate it with any of the three AR7000's that I have and thus unable to provide a quick solution. If I remember right the Spektrum receiver firmware was also updated at some point so I also wonder if this could be specific to a certain receiver version.

"James aka leeph" perhaps you give me hand here since you are "almost" at my neighborhood. Does it happens regularly on your setup? If so, we may be able to see something on the scope and figure it out.

-Angelos

[Angelos]

My position regarding the Spartan Ds760? It is a dam good gyro. Although I am asking Spartan for some explanation regarding the reset, my problems started when I changed my Transmitter/receiver. So I am not out of the loop in this thing. I may have done something wrong and I need to clarify this.

Marc,
I assume you mean the issue you reported with the gyro unwillingly entering setup mode. You used the term "reset" which to some people may seem something different and frankly a very scary thought for someone flying helis. Please clarify; is the setup mode the only issue we are still discussing?

-Angelos

[mporlier]

Marc,
I assume you mean the issue you reported with the gyro unwillingly entering setup mode. You used the term "reset" which to some people may seem something different and frankly a very scary thought for someone flying helis. Please clarify; is the setup mode the only issue we are still discussing?

-Angelos

Hi Angelos,

I apologize for the poor choice of words, maybe my English is not so good after all. Yes I do mean that the gyro enter into setup mode. But what I can not say is this: Does the gyro, when entering setup mode, looses its previous settings or resets itself? I did not test that.

So I am asking the question. If it enters unwillingly in setup mode, do I have to do the complete procedure or just turn it off and try again?

[mporlier]

Angelos,

I have a R921 RX I am not using. If you pay for shipping I would send you my AR7000 for tests. Because believe me, I am now the Pro of entering setup mode! ;)

Marc

[highland flyer]

Gscott, leeph is giving you the quickest option of checking out the gyro to eliminate a Radio setup issue. Reading through your post its does possibly appear to be a set up problem. I think the main thing is to eliminate the gyro menu meantime and ensure that no trims/subtrims/revo mixing etc is active on the servo travel screen.

see below

Instead of using the gyro menu, set the channel you've got the gyro gain cable plugged into to be controlled by one of your auxilliary switches, and use endpoint adjustment to set your gain values for rate and heading hold.

As Angelos points out the 760 has logged thousands of hours now and has proven to be exceptionally reliable and robust. Up till now any problems I have come across have been either setup or machine related

best of luck Brian

[Gscott]

Gscott, leeph is giving you the quickest option of checking out the gyro to eliminate a Radio setup issue. Reading through your post its does possibly appear to be a set up problem. I think the main thing is to eliminate the gyro menu meantime and ensure that no trims/subtrims/revo mixing etc is active on the servo travel screen.

see below

Instead of using the gyro menu, set the channel you've got the gyro gain cable plugged into to be controlled by one of your auxilliary switches, and use endpoint adjustment to set your gain values for rate and heading hold.

As Angelos points out the 760 has logged thousands of hours now and has proven to be exceptionally reliable and robust. Up till now any problems I have come across have been either setup or machine related

best of luck Brian

Sorry for the confusion but I already tried that using the either rudder D/R switch or the Aux2 switch. I did alot of testing this weekend and I don't remember exactly what switch was used. I had the same issue. In this case the gyro menu was set to INH. In any event the gyro menu in the 9303 isn't exactly rocket science and is pretty hard to screw up. I've built dozens of helis using Futaba and JR gyros using this exact same menu and never had problems. The only time I have not used the built in gyro menu was on a Trex 450 w/ a 6 channel receiver that used the gear channel for gain.

[Angelos]

Does the gyro, when entering setup mode, looses its previous settings or resets itself?

The settings are only updated when the setup mode is completed. Thus only when the LED is turned on solid at the very end. If you switch off earlier it will still remember the old settings.

-Angelos

[mporlier]

The settings are only updated when the setup mode is completed. Thus only when the LED is turned on solid at the very end. If you switch off earlier it will still remember the old settings.

-Angelos

Thant is good news.

[mporlier]

I tested some hover. Before my first take off everything looked all right. As someone else mentioned, my gyro lost the direction setting. It was not compensating properly. This is not the first time. I needed to set it up again. Bad, real bad!!

After this it flew properly. I only hovered, I was to scared.

[Gscott]

Yep. Similar results here. I did some more bench testing and here is what I found.

1.) The gyro would not enter setup no matter how fast/how many times I flipped the toggle. This is repeatable using the flight mode switch/gyro menu and using the Aux2 switch and end points (gyro menu set to INH). What was really interesting was after the gyro initialized if I give it full left rudder, return the stick to center, and then toggle the switch it enters setup mode. This is also repeatable with and without using the gyro menu.

2.) The gyro still will not intialize properly in HH mode. I turned on the heli and let the gyro initialize in HH mode. The blue light comes on and you think it has initialized properly but as soon as I give it full left stick the light goes out. Also at full left stick in this situation the limit is not even close to what was set in setup mode. Interestingly if I change the gain of one of the flight modes to be rate mode and toggle the switch it enters setup again.

What's even more frustrating is after messing with this for at least 2 hours tonight going through all my testing it seemed to start working normally. Then after the next power cycle it went back to not working properly.

I have tried rebinding with full left rudder, 1/2 left rudder, full right, and 1/2 right and nothing makes a difference. I've also tried rebinding in HH and rate with the same results. If I bypass the Arizona reg and go straight to a 4.8v pack the results are the same.

[mporlier]

Gscott, what tx/rx are you using?

[leeph]

In my limited experience/knowledge, I wonder if your TX is not centering properly. From what I understand, the gyro will not initialise until there is a center signal coming in on the rudder channel from the receiver. If you have no subtrim/trim setup on the rudder channel, then I wonder if it is not MECHANICALLY centering. Moving the stick to the left and back to center might just send a center signal long enough for the gyro to initialise and then obviously enter setup mode (or not, depending on whether you've toggled between rate and AVCS).

Does your TX have a screen where it shows you the channel outputs? I would look at the rudder channel and see whether mechanical center equals electronic center.

Also, when in HH mode, the blue light does go out when you give rudder input. It should come back on when you center the stick.

Have you got another RX/TX you can try?

[Angelos]

Gscott,
your problems are almost certainly related to radio programming. Perhaps you do the right thing but something else is still there that results to the gyro not seeing what you intend. Obviously as you move the stick or toggle the switch something is changing so have a look at the servo monitor menu to find out what happens. One possibility is that you have tail rotor mixing turned on in HH mode which appears to the gyro as the rudder not being centered. Also, your point (2) ".. but as soon as I give it full left stick the light goes out" makes me thing that you may have plugged the gyro gain input into the receiver rudder output. Thus changing to Rate mode (light out) when you give it left rudder.

-Angelos

[Gscott]

When I use the Aux2 switch and end points I can see the switch in the servo monitor and it moves from one end to the other when I move the switch. There is also no mixing or subtrim. I've never used either on any heli I've built. I also don't think the gain is plugged into the wrong input. Like I said if I turn the heli on in rate mode I can switch between rate and HH and I think it operates normally. I did alot of testing last night so I'm not 100% sure it still doesn't have the same HH issue but it does switch between rate and HH and the blue light indicates which mode. Another thing I noticed is if I abort the setup mode it does not keep the previous settings. My end points are way off after I abort the setup and then power cycle the heli.

For the record I'm using a JR 9303 w/ Spektrum module and an AR7000 RX. The AR7000 was purchase new about a month ago and it has the new software that binds/initializes very fast. I have another AR7000 but that would mean dismantling my only flyable heli. Sorry but I only have 2 helis :D

[ghtracey]

Would it not be easier for the two of you to actually talk to each other? Maybe a tech support line, or for that matter MSN voice chat. Just a suggestion.

[MarkWebber]

I've got a different TX/RX that I'd like to try on it.;) I am very interested to see if I can duplicate this issue.

[mporlier]

I have replaced my AR7000 by my R921. We will see how it goes. For now, on the bench, no unwanted reset! Cross my fingers.

[giskard]

Ok you all convinced me, I'll be flying it again this Saturday. I've had no indication of any problem anyway. I like the feel of the tail a lot and I'll having our local heli expert have a play with it too.

[raptorheli2]

new spartan firmware available.

Device: Spartan ds760
Firmware version: 1.07
Notes: Event logging. Wait on low gain. User data will be erased.

when you use this update you will need to download the new software editor for the gyro.

before you do this please note all the user data will be lost so either save it or redo the setup after the flash.

new software-
http://www.spartan-rc.com/products/d..._editor_r2.zip

to get the firmware just start up the current firmware editor and search for it as normal and it will pull it from the web.

cheers

[BruceW]

I just updated last night and found out about the 1.07 version and need to upgrade my configuration editor. Before doing it, I saved the current state, flashed the new firmware, and loaded the old settings. Worked perfectly.

Is there a new version of the configuration editor coming out where we can read the event log or is that for internal purposes only?

One thing that would be nice is to add a WM_DEVICECHANGE message hook to the software so you can detect when the USB adapter is plugged in and avoid the need for clicking 3 'OK' buttons during the detect phase. Just a suggestion, of course, and otherwise a great utility.

Thanks,
Bruce

[leeph]

Cheers - could you explain 'wait on low gain' and how to use event logging a bit please?

Thanks

[leeph]

Bruce -

http://www.spartan-rc.com/products/ds760/ds760_configuration_editor_r2.zip