Need GV1 governor help badly

[Mike SVOR]

I'm stumped at this point.
I watched both finless gv1 videos and set it up the same way on my futaba pcm7 radio.
I have the gv1 sr1 setup to be off in normal mode, 1300 rpm in sr2 and 1500 rpm in sr3.
throttle curve:
N= 11, 18, 20, 30, 40
IU1=80, 65, 50, 65, 80
IU2=100, 75, 50, 75, 100

When I get the blades spinning up to speed in normal mode and flip to idleup1, very little change (sometimes). When I click to idleup2, it seems to go to the rpm it was set at.
Sometimes, when I go from normal to IU1, the throttle goes ballistic and revs the blades WAY up until I have to switch back to normal mode.
It's sporadic. I don't know what to do now.
It's obviously not working properly the way I set it up, and I need help

this sucks. I'm bummed.

please help.
Mike

[Finless]

Well first why is your normal curve so low... The 40 seems way too low.

On the bench when you flip the switch do you see the display go from SR1 to SR2 and then to SR3 for each switch position?

Finally go to the menu item that shows the gov status of OFF or ON and make sure it is in an ON condition in your SR2 and SR3 modes. If it is not then sound slike the gov is NOT coming on and instead you are seeing your throttle curves NOT the gov doing something with RPM.

Finally usually when a gov is acting wierd it usually is some problem with the sensor reading the magnets. Make sure it is adjusted right and this means that when the motor is running the fan or something is not changing in a way that the sensor is having an issue reading the magnet....

Bob

[DavidH]

Did you set the limits on the GV1? Idle, high, stop.

From looking at your normal throttle curve precentages. The geometry of the throttle linkage must really be screwed up.If the low point is 11% for idle and the high point is 40%.
The throttle linkage has to be set up correctly even when using a GV1.
http://www.ronlund.com/throttle.htm

Also 1300-1500 rpm on a 50 size is going to be too slow in my opinion. 1500 might be OK for a verly slow hover rpm. I would not suggest trying any aerobatics at 1500.

David

[Mike SVOR]

I use normal mode to land and perform long hovers. It flys quite nicely. (well used to at least)

yes, i set the idle, high, stop. many times. I set the idle on normal, high on idleup2 full stick, and stop I pull the throttle cut switch.

It says to create a linear throttle curve, but then it says to make it fly correctly with the governor off. In normal mode, that would mean at half stick, 0 degree pitch, it would have 50%+ throttle, which is ripping.

These instructions suck.

Do I have to have normal throttle curve set at 0 to 100? I have my throttle curve set to 11% just to idle. Is this correct?

i'm so fusterated right now.

[DavidH]

Why do you have 40% as the throttle at full stick in Normal?
Why do you have 11% as the throttle setting at full low stick in Normal?

The GV1 reads throttle precentages from the transmitter. You need to at least set the throttle in Normal mode so it is 0 at low stick and 100% at full high stick. The 3 points in between can be set to flow smoothly and get the rpm you want in Normal mode. Even with 0 degs pitch at mid stick, I have set up 5 point throttle curves, 0, 20, 40, 60, 100,
Your Normal throttle settings, I believe you have the geometry of the linkage off track.

My definition of Linear, is just that it flows smoothly and doesn't have any drastic peaks or valleys. Your Idle 2 curve is linear, it flows smoothly from one side to the other.

Your sig says you have a Raptor Titan 50.
Gear ratio on that is 8.45 to 1. So at 1300 rpm your only turning the motor 11K rpm. If is an OS 50 Hyper, I seriously doubt the motor likes to run at that rpm. Even 1500 rpm is only 12.6K on the motor. Most of those motors I have helped setup like to turn at least 15k, That would be in the 1700 rpm range and up on the rotor head.

As the instructions state with the GV1. Need to get the throttle setup working correctly with the GV1 off before turning it on.
David

[wren1702]

David is correct, get the initial setup of the servo and linkages right and the GV-1 will work much better. Keep working with your linkages and arms till you get them correct, then move on!

[Mike SVOR]

The geometry of my linkages?
At 0% throttle curve, the engine is off.
At 100% throttle curve, the engine is wide open.
My linkages work perfect. Unless I don't understand what you are refering to.

My throttle curve requires 10-11% on low stick to make the engine idle. Should I set this in the sub trim first and then set the engine up to idle on 0% normal throttle curve at low stick?

[DavidH]

The trim next to the throttle stick should used to have control of your engine from off to a proper idle. You should not have to have 11% at low stick to make the engine idle. On the throttle servo, the distance the linkage attaches on the servo arm/wheel, has to be the same distance out from center that is attaches on the throttle barrel arm. If it is for example 16 mm out from center on the servo arm/wheel. It has to be 16mm out from center on the throttle arm. The linkage between the servo and the throttle arm, needs to be the same lenght as the distance between the servo shaft and the center of the throttle barrel shaft or attachment point.

This is the correct way to set up the linkage. It takes some trial and error to get it correct. Throttle linkage setup is one of the two most important things on a heli to get to fly correctly.

http://www.ronlund.com/throttle.htm

The ATV on the throttle channel needs to be 100% on both sides ( high and low).


David

[Mike SVOR]

This is my throttle in the middle:
http://s95974389.onlinehome.us/Pictures/RC%20Pictures/throttle%20002.jpg

This is it fully closed:
http://s95974389.onlinehome.us/Pictures/RC%20Pictures/throttle%20003.jpg

This is it wide open:
http://s95974389.onlinehome.us/Pictures/RC%20Pictures/throttle%20004.jpg

[Mike SVOR]

The trim next to the throttle stick should used to have control of your engine from off to a proper idle. You should not have to have 11% at low stick to make the engine idle.

So you're saying that I should set my sub trim to make the engine idle (this would keep the trim adjustments on the radio centered on the screen), then set my throttle curve on normal up as:

0, 20, 40, 65, 100

and set Idle up 1 and idle up 2 to:

100, 75, 50, 75, 100

???

Or should idleup 1 be different that idleup 2?

[DavidH]

From looking at the pictures. You do not have the linkage setup correctly. When the throttle stick is in the middle and at 50% setting on the throttle curve. The linkage rod should be 90 deg to the servo arm/wheel and 90 deg. to the throttle barrel arm. Also it appears the linkage is further out on the throttle arm from center than it is on the servo end.

Take the rod off the servo horn and off the throttle arm. Now hold the ball link hole directly over the screw that holds the servo horn on the servo. Now the other ball link hole on the other should be directly over the bolt head that holds the throttle arm on the carb. Once this length is correct. Then you can get the set up where it forms a parrelogram. The distance of the balls on the servo arm and the throttle arm have to be the exact same out from center.

You should use the trim lever to adjust the idle of the engine. The sub trim is in a menu in the transmitter menu. I would not adjust the subtrim. If you read the link I supplied about throttle setup. You may see what I am trying to say. Rick's { Ron) did a great job of writing and making drawings how to set up throttle linkage properly.
The way your throttle is set up from looking at the pictures. I would think the arc on each side of center is different. That would allow it to travel faster one direction than the other.

David

[Mike SVOR]

It's an optical illusion. when both arms are pointing straight down, they are perfectly semetrical.

oh wait! I see what you're saying, I think.

at 50%, make the servo arm point to 7 o'clock and the throttle arm on the engine also point to 7 o'clock?

Like this? http://s95974389.onlinehome.us/Pictures/RC%20Pictures/throttle%20006.jpg

[Mike SVOR]

Ok, I set up the linkage per the last picture I posted and per the specs on that link you posted.
It says to get the end point adjustment as close to 100% on both sides as possible.
My last attempt at this is 90%up stick and 84% down stick. This puts a full 90 degrees of carb barrel rotation.
Is this acceptable enough to continue?

[Mike SVOR]

Why do you have 11% as the throttle setting at full low stick in Normal?


Ok, now I'm totally confused.
I had 11% on the normal throttle curve so it would idle.

I'll type this directly out of the futaba radio book:

Setting up the normal flight conditions...
TH-CV/NOR: inputs the normal throttle curve, which is usually not a linear response to Throttle stick motion. Adjusting point 3 of the curve adjusts the engine's RPM at the Throttle Stick midpoint. The other 4 points are then adjusted to create the desired idle and maximum engine speed, and a smooth transition in-between.


I set up the TH-CRV(N) P1 setting to 11% so it would idle.
If I set this to 0%, there is no way that the trim can be adjusted that far to increase throttle enough to make it run.

totally confused,
Mike

[DavidH]

Go in one hole on the servo arm and one hole on the throttle arm. Then you should be able to have 100% ATV each direction. Maybe even a little more. When the barrel is fully closed, throttle stick all the way to bottom, 0% at point 1. Throttle trim all the way to bottom. Then when you push the throttle trim all the way up. The engine should idle, it will probably idle a little higher than needed. If it will not do that, then something is wrong.
The engines and throttle linkages I have set up will allow the throttle trim to control the idle and cut off the engine if needed.

I have read the instructions for the Futaba 7C. When it is talking about 3 points adjusting the hover rpm. It is talking about point 2, 3, and 4. Point 5 is for wide open throttle, Point 1 is for idle and should be at 0%, There is not 7 throttle points on the 7C. So I have no idea what they mean by the other 4 points.
In all the graphs in the manual showing the throttle curves, P1 is 0%.

Where is Newberry, Florida? What major city is it close to? Might know someone in the area that could help you hands on.
David

[Mike SVOR]

Go in one hole on the servo arm and one hole on the throttle arm. Then you should be able to have 100% ATV each direction. Maybe even a little more.

Ok, I did this and am now at ~110-110

When the barrel is fully closed, throttle stick all the way to bottom, 0% at point 1. Throttle trim all the way to bottom. Then when you push the throttle trim all the way up. The engine should idle, it will probably idle a little higher than needed.

AHH HAAA!!! So I put the trim all the way down, then set the end points! That makes sense.

Where is Newberry, Florida? What major city is it close to? Might know someone in the area that could help you hands on.
David

I'm directly 15 miles west of Gainesville.

[Mike SVOR]

Ok, I set the end points with the trim all the way down while adjusting the throttle linkage to be 90 degrees from each other. Now my end points are set at 95%up 98%down.
sound good?

Now my question is, do I have to have a normal mode throttle curve that looks like: 0, 25, 50, 75, 100 ???
What is the range that I should set it for?
What about Idle up 1 and 2? are they to be the same settings as 100, 75, 50 75, 100 ???

I reset all the other functions like throttle hold and throttle cut, so they work again after all this change.
I scrolled to the governor check screen and here is how the governor reacts:
Normal mode: 20% stick turns gov on
IU1: on constantly
IU2: on constantly


another question:
I used to have my normal mode set so I could spool up the blades nice and slow and just barely hover, and spool down slowly. Is this governor never going to allow me to set my original normal mode throttle curve of ~50% throttle max?

I'll report back tomorrow of how it runs.


Thanks for all the help so far. I really mean it. I searched many threads about this GV-1 and a lot of them were unanswered. I kinda lost hope there for a sec. But thanks. I hope I'm on the right track now.
and i'm learning stuff too!

[Mike SVOR]

alright, It still doesn't work.

Just went out and spooled it up in normal, then clicked to idle up 1 and the rpms go through the roof.

7 channel Futaba, futaba GY401 gyro, futaba gv-1 governor
endpoints: 95% 98% on radio
Throttle curve:
N: 0, 18, 35, 55, 100
1: 100, 70, 40, 70, 100
2: 100, 70, 40, 70, 100

Channel 7 is plugged into Aux(rpm)
Channel 7 is linked to switch E which is the 3 pos switch.

OFF in rS1
1300 in rS2 tried 1100 rpm, 1200rpm, 1300rpm, 1400rpm.... nothing works
1600 in rS3

Disp Rot
Grt 8.50
SwPt tried it both OFF and ON with no difference in rpm reving
StSw tried it both ON and INH with no difference in rpm reving
SwCd: currently, no collective stick movement in any direction turns it on while in NORMAL. In idle up one and two, it is on constantly.
GvOf: INH
5.2 volts
MxMd: Gov
MG: don't know what this does. Bunch of numbers moving around when I apply collective stick.
ATVB: 100%
MSx: Norm
MTrm: INH
B/FS: ACT
B/FD: 0
Lmt IDLE: set this in normal mode with trim enough to make it idle, stick down, 0% on the throttle curve.
Lmt HIGH: set this in normal mode with stick up, 100% on throttle curve.
and kill was set in normal mode with stick down, 0%, and trim all the way down.
Tst IDLE: works fine
tst high: works fine
test kill: works fine
Sen 97%
0 rpm: it reads it at idle when i'm watching it run. It says 650 to 850 while idling
Max: I only got one reading off of this screen once. other than that, it's always 0

I don't know what to do.

[DavidH]

SwPt tried it both OFF and ON with no difference in rpm reving
StSw tried it both ON and INH with no difference in rpm reving
SwCd: currently, no collective stick movement in any direction turns it on while in NORMAL. In idle up one and two, it is on constantly.


OK I am guessing you have S1 set to 1000 number in the GV1 menu.
That would be how you have it turned off in Normal

Swpt , that only sets the direction the On/OFF switch will operate when using a switch on the TX to turn the GV1 on and off.
StSw. Since you do not have the ON/OFF lead from the GV1 plugged into the RX. You need to activate St.SW, This is what will allow the GV1 to turn off when Throttle hold is engaged.
SWCD. When this screen has ON, the GV1 will be engaged. When it says OFF the GV1 is not operating.

I am guessing you have the RPM lead from the GV1 plugged into Channel 7 on the RX. You said you have a 3 position switch controlling CH 7. When you flip this switch, you should see S1, S2, S3 on the GV1 as you flip the 3 position switch. You then can only use the speed that the switch is position. For example if the switch is all the way one direction and that is displaying S1, that is the speed the GV 1 will take the engine. If the middle position is S2, then that is the RPM the GV1 will maintain. If the switch is all the way the opposite direction that will be S3 and the speed displayed is what the GV1 will maintain.

Which switch on the 7C do you have controlling Ch 7. According to the instruction manual Switch B on the front of the transmitter is what controls Channel 7 and it is only a 2 position switch.

The only 3 position switch I see on the radio is the idle up switch on the top left of the 7CH
If your using that switch to change the speeds on the GV1. What kind of programable mix did you set up?

David

[Mike SVOR]

OK I am guessing you have S1 set to 1000 number in the GV1 menu.
That would be how you have it turned off in Normal Yes, it is set to off <1000 rpm. Is this wrong?
If I can't control the rpms, I don't want to give it 20% throttle and all of a sudden it goes to max rpm like it's been doing.
Am I not allowed to turn it off on normal and have a normal throttle curve in place, then when I switch to idle up 1 it goes to say 1500 or 1700?

Swpt , that only sets the direction the On/OFF switch will operate when using a switch on the TX to turn the GV1 on and off.
StSw. Since you do not have the ON/OFF lead from the GV1 plugged into the RX. You need to activate St.SW, This is what will allow the GV1 to turn off when Throttle hold is engaged.
SWCD. When this screen has ON, the GV1 will be engaged. When it says OFF the GV1 is not operating.

This keeps circling around wether or not I can shut the gov off in normal mode by selecting less than 1000 rpms on the menu, then use idle up 1 and 2 to control two different rpms. Idle up 1 I want it to be 1500 rpm, idle up 2 I want it to be say 1800 rpm, and in normal mode I want to be able to control the throttle like I did before the governor install.
Is this possible or do I have to run it as 'always on' when the stick is over 20% for normal and always on when in iu1 and 2???

I am guessing you have the RPM lead from the GV1 plugged into Channel 7 on the RX. You said you have a 3 position switch controlling CH 7. When you flip this switch, you should see S1, S2, S3 on the GV1 as you flip the 3 position switch. You then can only use the speed that the switch is position. For example if the switch is all the way one direction and that is displaying S1, that is the speed the GV 1 will take the engine. If the middle position is S2, then that is the RPM the GV1 will maintain. If the switch is all the way the opposite direction that will be S3 and the speed displayed is what the GV1 will maintain.

Which switch on the 7C do you have controlling Ch 7. According to the instruction manual Switch B on the front of the transmitter is what controls Channel 7 and it is only a 2 position switch.

The only 3 position switch I see on the radio is the idle up switch on the top left of the 7CH
If your using that switch to change the speeds on the GV1. What kind of programable mix did you set up?

David

Yes, I see S1, S2, and S3 when toggling between the 3 position switch (switch E) positions.
Under parameters on the B3 mode/page on my controler, I set channel 7 to switch E and then I saw the gov switching between the 3 different available settings offered.

[DavidH]

Yes you can have any of the speeds set to 1000 and that will not operate the governor.
Yes you can use a normal throttle curve in normal mode and then switch to Idle 1 and have 1500 rpm or what ever you want. If your at 1300 in normal mode and switch to idle 1 and have it set for 1500 rpm. Yes it is going to open the throttle till it gets to 1500. Like right now. Same thing with idle 2.

Now all you have to do is make sure the GV1 cuts off when you switch to Throttle Hold.
Also activate B/FS on the GV1. I am guessing your using a PPM (FM) receiver. So you realize when the GV1 is engaged, there is no way to turn it off if you happen to get a glitch.

David

[Mike SVOR]

Well I've tried everything and it still goes to full throttle (and stays there) as soon as I go from normal to idle up 1. The headspeed is not safe.

Guess it may be broke too.

[DavidH]

What is the RPM reading on the max RPM screen after this happens?

David

[Mike SVOR]

What is the RPM reading on the max RPM screen after this happens?

David


0 (zero)

[DavidH]

No that is the RPM reading. Yes it will be 0 when the motor is off.
You have to push the keys to change screens on the GV1. The next screen is the MAX RPM screen. It will show the max rpm that was achieved during the flight. You have to do this without turning power off to the receiver after the flight.

David