2nd Crash

[diyman]

Hi all,
Well when i crashed the first time i said to myself well if i crash again i will be a bit cheesed off.
To be quite honest I'm not that cheesed off just a bit confused.
If i knew why i crashed it wouldn't be so bad but I'm confused.

The helicopter was hovering about twelve feet up with training legs on.This was because the breeze took it up and i was just trying to steady it,when it just dropped its nose and turned over on its rotars and crashed.

I know it wasn't my input as i was steady on the sticks.
Im suspecting the engine stopped.I have read about flame outs or something like that.What causes an engine to cut out.But would that cause it to nose dive.
Looking at the damage i did find the horn that controls the pitch was broken or could that have happened on impact.

I had set my pitch to 0,+5,+10 to practice hovering.
Before i had set it at -3,+5,+10 and i didn't seem to have a problem.
Was i to high up at virtually 0 pitch,my stick was about half when it nose dived.
It did seem harder to control than last time i took it out,I'm suspecting it was the pitch settings.
Your views please.

[bighands3d]

was it windy.. the winds play havoc on a 30 machine and with the heavy training gear doesnt' helpl..

[WayneBrown]

After yesterdays 40 MPH winds, and Mikey flying his 2nd full tank on hovering, we set it up -9, 0 +9 and today in 10-15 MPH winds, he did a lot better.
Collective management in the wind is recognising the extra lift generated by the wind passing over the rotor disk, and not panicking and punching it when the gust dies.
Picture the wind over the rotor disk adding 25% more lift to a fixed pitch machine.
Without the benefit of collective, you'd have to slow the rotors to arrest the climb, however when the gust dies, you will not have enough lift to recover to a hover quickly, resulting in the machine crashing.
Our machines have collective pitch, which allows the engine RPM and Rotor disk RPM to remain more constant. Knowing 'how' lift is generated by changing the pitch and maintaining your headspeed should help you overcome the pitchiness You have experienced in wind gusts. Even while the heli is balloning up, it's flying. Reduce pitch enough to start a slow descent, maintain engine RPM by listening to the exhaust sound and fly it out.
I'm reliving what you are going through... with Mike, and trying to keep him from panicking and either chopping the stick, or allowing him to let the machine get too high is not easy to explain, but he description of how lift is generated really seemed to click for him. Now he can hover in wind, at different aspects of himself and heli to the wind.
Hope it helps..

[ThBrtmn]

For it to make a drastic nose dive like that and auger in... It may have been that servo you were talking about. Were you giving it forward input when it went in...did you try to correct it with awkward response from the Heli? If so...might have been the horn.

[diyman]

Hi,it did seem just to be out of control.
I have hovered in the wind o.k. and managed it,even though I'm new at it.
I'm still finding it lifting slightly but have managed to bring it down slowly.
I'm thinking it is the horn because if it was the engine cutting out the crash, I'm thinking, would have landed landing gear down due to auto rotation.
It just nose dived and turned over.I did try and correct it but no response.
It just didn't seem to respond to my input.
I have had another idea,could it have been radio interference.

Or it could have been me.

Pity no one has invented black boxes for models.
Still it keeps the model shops in business :lol: :roll:

[RSL_Mongoose]

Pity no one has invented black boxes for models.



http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Plane/plane.html

[rob_jones]

I've had my share of "mystery crashes". It sounds like it was a mechanical issue of some kind. Either a bad servo, a servo arm popped off, or a link popped off. Small and light helicopters like a Shuttle can get pitched around quite a bit when trying to hover in the wind. They will usually bounce up and down, but it's unlikely to nose over.

[ThBrtmn]

Yes...if your motor was to die...you would have heard it quit and get silent....The only thing that would have changed was your altitude if you kept the collective stick at the same position when it quit and it would have started to fall once the headspeed bled off. If you were 12 feet up. The most it would have done was bounced and tipped over. Are you flying FM or PCM. It sounds like ti could also have been a radio hit. I saw a guy flying that was down to metal to metal on the clutch and he didnt heed the warnings from myself and other to set it down pack it up and replace the liner before he flew again. He was hovering and it locked out, nosed down, flew forward for about 50 feet before it augered in. Not saying its the same as you but it could happen from a number of things.

[Duracizer]

http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Plane/plane.html

That's frieking cool!

[diyman]

RSL_Mongoose.
I was just on my way to the copyright place when you show me that. :)

ThBrtmn,
I'm sure my liner is o.k. on the clutch i had looked at it two days before when i replaced my engine mount.

http://www.helifreak.com/album_showpage.php?pic_id=3378

As for the radio it is a JR Propo X-378 on PPM.(PCM)
I checked the operation of the servo's tonight and it seemed all is well.
When i rebuild i shall go thru it and check everything.
Looking back on the day i didn't feel comfortable about the heli,something wasn't right.I put it down to me changing the pitch settings.
I'm going back to -3,+5,+10.
But i still suspect radio interference or the horn on the servo.

It should be ready to fly by the weekend so ill give it another go.
Thanks for all your input i wish you lot were there when i practice.
Perhaps the best thing to do is join a club instead of trying to do it myself.

[rob_jones]

Definitely join a club. There is no way just talking to people on the Internet can replace actually being around people who can help you in person.

You also need at least 2 or 3 degrees of negative pitch. Once you start flying around, it will be VERY difficult to land without any negative pitch. 0 degrees for the max negative is a good idea only when you are taking your first tentative hops. This helps to prevent slamming the helicopter into the ground. But once you get up in the air, it can make landing a real challenge!

[nguyen23464]

batterys?

[diyman]

Hi,nguyen23464,
I'm very wary of batteries so it wasn't that,but thanks for the thought.

Its been a long time since i started this post.
It does make me smile when i say i had 0,+5 +9 on my pitch.
I wonder why i found it hard to bring the heli down :oops:
Also i only found out about idle up one and two about two month's after i started trying to hover. :shock:
Any newbie reading this please join a club and talk to people it helps A LOT.
I can fly around a bit now doing rolls and loops.
Ive also crashed some more, due to me mostly.(over confident)
Looking back i still cant see why it did nose dive.I suspect a link coming off.
Still loving the hobby and looking at buying another heli,probably a Raptor 50 or 60 with a 70 engine.
Winters just around the corner,so the fingerless gloves are being sorted out.

[nguyen23464]

Hi,nguyen23464,
I'm very wary of batteries so it wasn't that,but thanks for the thought.

Its been a long time since i started this post.
It does make me smile when i say i had 0,+5 +9 on my pitch.
I wonder why i found it hard to bring the heli down :oops:
Also i only found out about idle up one and two about two month's after i started trying to hover. :shock:
Any newbie reading this please join a club and talk to people it helps A LOT.
I can fly around a bit now doing rolls and loops.
Ive also crashed some more, due to me mostly.(over confident)
Looking back i still cant see why it did nose dive.I suspect a link coming off.
Still loving the hobby and looking at buying another heli,probably a Raptor 50 or 60 with a 70 engine.
Winters just around the corner,so the fingerless gloves are being sorted out.




Im also a newbie myself. Started 2 months ago. Had way too many close calls lost count. Trying to bring myself to take off the traning gears tommorow morning. Very nervous about it. I do not know how the heli is gonna feel or anything. I mean the heli when it starts up on the rotopod spins around a bit till it picks up rpm. Hopefully it wont just tip over tommorw without the gears lol.

I trying to work on where you are now. Also wanting a raptor 50 in the future. How was your progess every since the crash? I have just crashed 2 sundays ago and got it going again just recently. Had a close call yesterday with the gears on:

Wind took it up high. Miscalculated speed and it flew behind me. 1 training gear broke hit a light pole behind me and heli kept going forward lol. Brought heli back and landed it safely. No damge. Phew!! close one.

[diyman]

Hi,Good to hear that you are going to take the training gear off.
I feel that the heli handles better without the training gear.It will be different,but in a good way.
What heli do you have because my opinions are just for anyone flying a Shuttle.I have made mistakes in the past reading forums where you think,ill try that,but they were on about a Raptor.
Each type of heli has there own set ups(roughly).
My biggest advice would be to join a club.A good club that are interested in heli's not planes.Try and find another person who fly's heli's.Another top tip,get a flight sim.Again not the same as flying the real thing but gives you an idea plus saves you money by not crashing the real thing.(FMS realflight sim is free,Do a search on Google).
Nothing wrong with taking the training gear off as long as you can hover nose in hover side on in both directions and do a bit of flying around (not to high)Try with the t.g off then you can always put it back on to try different things.
Do you know all about pitch and throttle curves,idle ups,throttle holds,gyro's,setting the engine up.These i only found out about by looking on the web sites.
Looking back i started back to front,i got the heli and tried to fly it without looking at the theory behind how you fly.(thats why you need help by joining a club or someone showing you.)
I'm honest enough to say Ive crashed about 6 times now and its cost me a lot.Some people may think I'm stupid but i know I'm not.Its a hobby and my way of letting off steam.
In time you will hover without thinking and personally its probably the hardest thing to do(not including 3d)The flying bit is easy :roll: :)
You ask how i progressed after the crash(which one, see above :lol: )the first three was not a problem but after that it started getting on my nerves.Just take your time and do not get over confident.

[AlanMcSwain]

Just in general principle, as a beginner you want to eliminate as many "Difficulty Variables" as possible.

My advice is that until you master forward flight (figure eights), restrict your flying to calm mornings with nothing more than a light breeze.

Once you've mastered figure eights, you can attempt them in breezier conditions and you will quickly come to see how the heli reacts in altitude when going from up-wind to down-wind. (It drops.) This training alone will rapidly advance your collective management skills.

Alan

[WillJames]

Alan is right. Very good advice with the potential to save you a lot of $$ and frustration.

[nguyen23464]

Ok, today me and King Kobra went flying with the gears off today. Thanks to some help from him the helicopter came back in one piece =).



Indeed the heli seemed alot more responsive. Omg it was so windy today!! I think in virginia beach here it is about 15 gusting to 20mph. And trying to fly with a raptor 30.

Overall it was a good flight, even though the wind kept taking the 30 up like 100ft. Was too scared to attempt forward flight and nose in thinking that it was a crash waiting to happen. lol Just stuck with the good old tail in approach.

The good news is at least I wont be putting the gears back on and I am more confident in landing the heli without the gears.
Handling the windgust upwards is still tricky for me.

Like I always say: "A good flying day is not what you learn, its if the heli came back in 1 piece." :lol:




Jamie



P.S. Love the new performance upgrade muffler that arrived yesterday nite. Much Much Much Better!!! than my oil leaking, old, stock TT muffler. Makes me feel like my 30 is actually worth something. lol :D

[edm3]

Jamie,

Congratulations on your flight!!! :lol: You are braver than I am taking on those winds. :noteworthy

What Kind of muffler did you get? I also have a Raptor 30v2 with an OS 32 and a stock TT muffler.

Anyhow congrats again,

Ed

[nguyen23464]

Jamie,

Congratulations on your flight!!! :lol: You are braver than I am taking on those winds. :noteworthy

What Kind of muffler did you get? I also have a Raptor 30v2 with an OS 32 and a stock TT muffler.

Anyhow congrats again,

Ed


Oh believe me, I didnt intentially want to take on those winds at the field. Wasnt that windy in front of the house :lol:

Tommorow Im gonna go out again and risk my helicopters life again. Except, this time forward flight if the wind allows.

I got the mavirick muffler, WAY!! bigger than the stock TT muffler. Quieter, DOESNT LEAK!, I got tired of tightning that stripeed out screw on the muffler. :lol: I didnt notice any performance difference because im still a newbie and cant tell.

For $27 you get the well built muffler with shim to the engine, and deflecter. Thats hard to beat.

http://www4.mailordercentral.com/heliproz/prodinfo.asp?number=803160



I hope I dont run this raptor into the ground tommorow in foward flight.

Wish me luck,


jamie

[edm3]

Jamie,

How many flights do you have under your belt. So far I have 29 and all of it hovering from different rear aspects. I have been flying in the front yard and will need to go to a feild that is big enough to allow forward flight. I have also been tryng to get a vibration issue figured out.

Have fun tomorrow and good luck.

Ed

[nguyen23464]

Jamie,

How many flights do you have under your belt. So far I have 29 and all of it hovering from different rear aspects. I have been flying in the front yard and will need to go to a feild that is big enough to allow forward flight. I have also been tryng to get a vibration issue figured out.

Have fun tomorrow and good luck.

Ed


I say I have about 20 something too. And try to get on the sim any chance I get. Yeah going into a big field helps alot. Helps ease your mind also. I tried flying in my front yard all the time. Stopped because keep getting scared it might fly into my car or house or something.

At the field you know if you lose control in the air you have opprotunites to bail out without hitting anything. My blades once got damaged because I hit some tree shrubs on my yard once just hovering.

Oh my, I had the vibration issue on my head also, for like a month trying to figure it out too. I thought my helicopter was just unstable and accepted the fact lol :lol: I eventually found out the problem: Loose blades. Thats all it was. Also the training gears put a whole load of vibration also. I thought my blades were out of track first but couldnt eyeball that tracking tape thing worth nothing. :(

Tommorows wind says its about 7mph in the morning. But still scared to go out to do foward flight. I fly pretty good on the sim but my helicopter is finnaly setup right and I dont wanna crash it. Im debating on practicing on the sim more or just fly it. Because when I do fly it Im gonna take that heli and try figure 8's. Which means its a good chance that it might run into the ground.




Jamie

[Hotshot Charlie]

Congrats Jamie, now how good does it feel to fly without the "feet"? :mrgreen:

Take your time, try to progress some each day, but don't push too far over your comfort zone. Yes, you do have to push past the comfort zone some... it's just knowing when to stop and take a break. :shock:

Remember, this is a lifelong hobby, you don't have to try to be a Marcus Kim.... at least for a month or two... heheheee :wink:

Congrats and Good Luck !

[nguyen23464]

Congrats Jamie, now how good does it feel to fly without the "feet"? :mrgreen:

Take your time, try to progress some each day, but don't push too far over your comfort zone. Yes, you do have to push past the comfort zone some... it's just knowing when to stop and take a break. :shock:

Remember, this is a lifelong hobby, you don't have to try to be a Marcus Kim.... at least for a month or two... heheheee :wink:

Congrats and Good Luck !




awww man,
the hobby store guy said I would be like Marcu Kim within 2 months! :lol: I quit!!

Oh yeah,

It feels real good to lose those spider legs. I got so tired of cleaning them and strapping them on every time. Everytime I go flying I would have to make an extra trip back into the house, just, to get the rotopod. Then 5 more minutes to strap them on. When leaving, I always have to say to myself, "Oh dear, did I forget my rotopod clips??"

Ok gonna here goes at 9am tommorow again,
no gear + a few circles of foward flight for the first time. Gonna go get 1 more hour of sim practice in and 1 hour in the morning before flight.


:lol: For the love of God!!! Please save me from ordering parts from heliproz this week. :lol:

wish me luck.


nite guys.

[nguyen23464]

Flew 3 tanks today without gears,

Beautiful day, cool breeze, warm sun, 5mph winds.

lots of forward flight. Super sloppy 8's. But the good news is Im getting more used to the heli's controls. Its amazing how much diffrent the simulator feels from real life. The input from transmitter to the heli is very diffrent.
The simulator I think is only good for teaching you orientation.
1 piece heli. Very happy indeed.