Is flybarless the future?

[fireup]

I also really like the air popping sound those blades make in a v-bar config.

Yes, that is one thing you can do super easy with a v-bar... make it 'Pop' in a super quick snap row or flip.

[DebianDog]

Like CCPM I doubt you will see a flybar in 10 years except on the cheaper heli "toys".
Electronics cost and technology will make it cost effective to make it at least an option on all kits in the near future.

My 2C

[NTM]

Your not helping my justification.;)



How stable is your flybarless Logo600 when its close to the ground? I've heard others saying that its twitchy but I assume that can be adjusted via software.

It's not really twitchy while it's on the ground, spooled up, it just responds a little strangely is all. I try not to leave it sitting spooled up for extended periods.
When it's merely close to the ground it is rock solid, extremely stable, but super fast and responsive too. It's been spending alot of time really "close" to the ground at high speed,lol !
I'm very confident in it's ability to place the heli within an inch or two of where I want it to be, rather than feet.

Again, easily the best money I've spent, this 6003d and v-bar absolutely blow me away, and I wasn't exactly flying junk before this with my pimped out logo 14. I'd buy another based solely on the flight characteristics, never mind the flight time and power gains.

[ulrich99]

I want to make an addition to Marks list what a Flybar does:

3. It compensates the pitch up effect of the helicopter in fast flight. If it is i.E. in fast forward flight, the advancing paddle creates a slight tilting of the flybar, which is acting as a slight elevator down command. If setup correctly, this eliminates the pitching up effect, that is created by more lift of the advancing blade. This is needed, because the flybar disk is not staying infintily at its attitude but has the tendency to run neutral.

[JBajkor]

I remember flying before tail gyros came on the market and having similar discussions about them. That was a long time ago but, would I fly without a tail gyro now? of course not!
I just got my first V-Bar and there is a problem. When I try it, I may like so much, I will have to buy 3 more for my other helis!
Joe

[Danyboy]

Chiming in with more or less the rest...

I *think* it will become a very common option for hi-end helis.

But then I believe as well that at the entry level, there will still be a flybar, as there are still rate-only-gyros to be had... The big problem will be all the possibilities of parameters which the entry-level-guy simply cannot understand. Look in example at the 401: How many people are out there that do not really understand how to tune it properly?

Most of the change will be due the hype that many people - mostly those with only a little expirience but much bigger mouth, not really understanding the aerodynamics around helis - will start mobbing for it: "If you don't have a v-bar, you're not cool".

Same you can see around here with brushed vs brushless motors in planks: If it's brushed, it can't fly by definition... Rather complaining about high prices than doing the same with brushed motors... (note, with this example, I'm referring to planks, not helis...)

There will be times where beginners insist on having a v-bar, though they are just finishing on learning how to hover properly. Why? Because it flies so much better. Aha, it flies so much better? Yes, you bet...! Compared to what? Urrrr...

Just my honest opinion...

Cheers,

Daniel

[rotorblade]

I just found this post and found it interesting. So I thought I would post my thoughts.

Yes Flybarless is the future!!! Heck the future is NOW!!!!! The VBar is here and now.

The true need for flybars is for Power-steering. Back when servos only had 10 oz of torque if you put that bird in forward flight you would have a very big control problem when it came time to slow down or turn without that flybar. Now some standard sized servos have 100+ oz of torque. Today the only real use of flybars is stability with very little needed for real power-steering.
Heck a friend and I took my JR voyager E and made it flybarless using parts from the original head and 2 long threaded rod for the JR ball links. It flew but it was very squirrely. You had to be right on top of it all the time, very focused constantly.

This reminds me of something I did back around 1997. I sent a very in depth presentation to a Very Prominent RC helicopter manufacturer in America about Brush-less motors lithium batts and Flybarless heads. I was basically asking for his opinion. I was told in no uncertain terms, by the SON of the owner, that Bush-less will NEVER be available to the average person. Lithium batteries will NEVER be available to the everyday flier at a reasonable price to make it VIABLE. Finally I was told that Flybarless heads will NEVER BE USED in a 3D FAI Acrobatic Set up and will never be used in scale aircraft due to the expense. They are too unstable and too delicate. At-least he took time to respond back by writing a letter.

By the year 2001 you could get very good lithium batteries and chargers and by 2003 things had gotten so cheap and plentiful that you were a fool if you didn't go lipo.

I predict by the year 2011 that most of the smaller 400 to 600 sized electric helis from reputable quality manufacturers will have the Flybarless Option on all their product lines. On larger and more powerful helicopters will have the flybar completely removed due to parts necessary to make the flybar work will weigh more than the simple electronic module and extra peizo gyro.

Example look at peizo gyros, brush-less motors, or LiPo batteries. they are all mandatory for good performance and reliability for electric heli's of any-kind. Flybarless will be peizo brushless and lipo of present only in the future.

Simple clean and neat will be the future.

[SpeedVision]

Flybarless all the way!

While V-Bar has established itself as somewhat of the "Kleenex" of flybarless world, the Skookum SK-360 is the least expensive (329.00) intro into the flybarless world and it works very well.

Yes, the SK-360 requires a tail gyro, but that was actully a selling point for me because I have a full assortment of already paid for gyro's that I am perfectly happy with.

NOW, if heli manufacturers and the aftermarket jump on board with flybarless offerings for all kinds of heli sizes, then flybarless will become the standard for mid to high priced heli offerings.

See what all the buzz is about, convert you heli to flybarless TODAY.:banana

[Ludde]

Also got the none expensive Sk360 and it works perfect now, have it in a 600 N Pro Rex, hade some problems in the beggining but new software made that go away, also only 1 box, not 3.. my second is soon mounted.. Support is awesome to.. guys at skookum rocks!