XLV Prices

[aballen]

Can any of you XLV owners tell me what the entry point is for an XLV?

I'm talking good servos, a 611 or better gyro, etc.

[heliman53]

Gasser or Turbine? CB

[aballen]

I think I'll start with a gasser, I knew I shoulda mentioned that.

Turbines are pricey not matter what you go with right, though pricey is a relative term.

[heliman53]

The gasser kit goe's for about $2600.00, Main blades are additional around $300.00 I think.Vario has a new engine available 29cc. Craig B

[aballen]

Thanks heliman, thats about what I figured... so figure
2600 for the kit
300 for the motor
300 for blades
300 for gyro
400 for servos
60 for reciever
~4k ish

are the motors from vario ok? I've heard they really run rough and some people buy tuned motors to reduce vibration, is that necessary?

[heliman53]

I have a stock 230 in my Acrobatic and it runs smoother than any gasser I have ever owned, I have not tried the 260 or the new 29 so I can not speak for them. Craig B

[DKTek]

23 cc will run smoother due to the smaller piston being easier to balance the crank to. They all share the same basic dims on the crank making it more difficult to balance the crank against the larger pistons. I run a 27cc from DMM Racing and it has good power with the stock XLV pipe. Yes it's not smoother than a good 23cc but I'll take the extra oomph any day.

The JetCat conversion really rocks though. Since I had the three blade setup on main and T/R, I have an extra chassis with gasser, rotor head and tail, which I'm building back up for a second XLV.

Yeah, I'm ate up with the XLV...

[aballen]

yeah the jetcat looks nice, but the turbine alone adds 2-3k to the heli... and this would be my first heli this large, so wi want to keep it simple as possible....

[DKTek]

The JetCat conversion is simpler but is a bit more expensive than you think. With the HobbyParts frame and the SPH5, you'll find it adds about $5,000 US. It's simpler because there is one less servo, the cat doesn't need it, and the cat has a built in governor. Less set up. Not to mention the lack of tuning a 2 stroke, priming it, pull starting it, etc. With the Cat, it starts from the radio and many view them as being MORE reliable than the gasser...at a hefty price. But the power and sound is awesome.

Good luck with your XLV and ask many Q's while building it. Look for a few missing parts that the seller should supply. I don't think Vario puts too many XLV kits together due to the price.

[DKTek]

I'm talking good servos, a 611 or better gyro, etc.

ARI, use the recommended 9206 servos and a 401 gyro.

Digital servos tend to cause failures in one another with this type swash set up. They hold too accurately and fight each other until one dies. The 9206 has plenty of power and speed while having enough slop to allow for the subtle differences in set up. Remember that the XLV is NOT aerobatic! It's a lazy fluffy fun machine as another owner put it. You can get the manual(pdf) from Varios website. Don't use the digital servo with the 401 either. It doesn't have the power to fly the tail reliably. They have been known to stall out with the mass of the XLV's tail rotor. Use the 9206 in analog mode with the 401. High end gyros aren't necessary. Most who fly the XLV have the funds to get the ultra high end digital servos and gyros but they don't for these reasons. Put that extra money into a cool paint job or a video down link. As with any heli, SAFETY first. Especially with the Xtra Large Vario.

[rampage-1]

I used the Futaba S-9206's on my first XLV gasser. The next XLV that I am building, I will be using Futaba S-9351 on the head and for the gyro 401 will be Futaba S-9451.


SPECS: S-9351 Speed: .16 sec/60° @ 4.8V; .13 sec/60° @ 6.0V
Torque: 153 oz-in @ 4.8V; 192 oz-in @ 6V
Weight: 2.1oz (61g)
Length: 1.57" (40mm)
Width: .8" (20mm)
Height: 1.44" (36.6mm)



Detailed Specifications Futaba S-9451

Control System: +Pulse Width Control 1520usec Neutral
Required Pulse: 3-5 Volt Peak to Peak Square Wave
Operating Voltage: 4.8-6.0 Volts
Operating Temperature Range: -20 to +60 Degree C
Operating Speed (4.8V): 0.13sec/60 degrees at no load
Operating Speed (6.0V): 0.10sec/60 degrees at no load
Stall Torque (4.8V): 97 oz/in. (7kg.cm)
Stall Torque (6.0V): 121 oz/in. (8.7kg.cm)

[rampage-1]

S9206 High-Torque............................................ .................Standard for XLV
SPECS: Speed: .19 sec/60° @ 4.8V
Torque: 132 oz-in @ 4.8V (9.5 kg-cm @ 4.8V)

I changed my second XLV to the following setup. I was going to use the BLS251 servo for the tail with a 601 but the servo is only a 52oz. The 401 with the BLS451 @ 118oz seems to hold with out a problem.
I am at 5.6v which gives me .11 sec range. A big difference from the .19sec of the S9206. A difference you can tell




Futaba BLS351 Brushless High-Torque Servo .................. ...qty of 4 for the head
SPECS: Torque: 4.8V: 168 oz-in, 6.0V: 208 oz-in
Speed: 4.8V: 0.16 sec, 6.0V 0.12 sec
Dimensions: 1.6 x 0.8 x 1.5" (40.6 x 20.3 x 38mm)
Weight: 2.2 oz (62g)



Futaba BLS451 Brushless High-Torque/Speed Servo ............used for tail servo
SPECS: Torque: 4.8V: 118 oz-in, 6V: 147 oz-in
Speed: 4.8V: .13 sec, 6V .10 sec
Dimensions: 1.6 x 0.8 x 1.4" (40.6 x 20.3 x 35mm)
Weight: 2.11oz (60g)

FEATURES: The BLS type brushless servos are Equipped with a Brushless motor that lasts longer and operates at a
lower temperature than Brushed motors
30% Faster response times, smoother operation
Samarium Cobalt magnets and dual ball bearings
Same power consumption and centering as Digital servos equipped with
Brushed motors
Standard size
Metal gears

With the four servo head setup, if not setup correctly the digital servos buzz a lot until adjusted to the correct amount. I did notice with the S9206 servos never gave you this warning, so you would never know they are fighting each other. I am using a 14mz which allows you to adjust all 4 servos to make sure no binding takes place.I found it diificult to get it perfect in all ranges. Meaning, they were perfect with no buzzing, full pitch to low pitch , forward, aft, right left in all condictions. Seems like you would make adjustments in all condictions and one be off a little until futher adjusting.

[bcook01]

Rampage

I like to put an ammeter in line with one of the servos (either aileron or elevator) to monitor current and minimize interaction. You tweak for the least current which would be the same as if the servo was not connected (mechanically). Just adjust your endpoints on the transmitterI
Found using digital servos were trickier to setup and increased current consumption. Still use the 9202s which do a good job for this type of setup with less current than the 9206s.
.
fyi

Bob

[rampage-1]

Ths S9202 at 72 oz compared to the S9602 at 132 oz are pretty litght for the XLV IMHO. The BLS 351 brushless seem to be doing a good job.The brushless are per Futaba last 5 times longer. I guess we shall see

Regards
DS

[bcook01]

my error. 9602s are more appropriate.

Bob

[Intrepid175]

We're working with one of these birds. It is so cool in the air, very realistic. I've been reading this with interest, especially when you folks started talking about servos and such. We've had some glitching problems that now appear to have been related to the servo extensions we were using on the cyclic servos. The receiver has been repositioned so as to allow for removing the extentions and we've now got over 2 hours of uneventful flying with it so I think that gremlin is done.

We've got S9351's on the swashplate and have gone over the control thows with each of them disconnected from the swashplate, one at a time. As far as we can tell, there's no significant binding in the control system, servo to servo. We also had a 611 with S9256 servo and was not completely satisfied with the performance. At only 47 oz/in of torque, I have to wonder if the servo was up to it. After reading this conversation, we put a 401 gyro on the bird with a 9206 on the tail and it is significantly better so thanks for that!

One question I've got, especially after reading all of this, is there any reason way a strong digital servo like the 9351 wouldn't be enough to fly this bird with it configured in a 120 CCPM setup? All we're doing is basic hovering and forward flight, nothing that I'd consider totally taxing and it would elliminate any binding issues associated with that 4th servo. Any opinions greatly appreciated!

Thanks & Fly Safe,
Steve R.

[BigRagu]

Ok, I made the plunge and waiting on Buddy Brownie (UPS) Guy . . .So I read the 351 Brushless arguments and I'm on the fence for my servo selection?

HELP . . .Dan likes the 4602's as factory recommended, but those Brushless are really smoooooth!
Friend has the smaller ones on a trex 600 and the head is like glazzzzzzzzzzzz.

BigRagu

[BigRagu]

Hello . . . is anyone flying their XLV with the JR Ultra Torque Servos? They have some fast Cyclic High Torque servos 8717's and they really good.
I gave up on JR servos along time ago but it looks like they did their homework?

WADDAUTHINK?

BigRagu