Venom Micro 3D brushless

[scaredsilly]

I was wondering if anyone has one of these little heli's and if they've done a brushless conversion? I like the heli, but it's just weak with the brushed setup. Curious what has worked for folks and what parts they used. Thanks.

[raginredneck93]

There's one on Ebay with a 12mm Fegaio in it, 5400kv I think. I probably shouldn't have said that since I'm watching it, LOL, but you might email the guy and ask him how it worked. Since he's selling it I'm guessing the results were less than stellar, but who knows.

Just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "weak"? Do you mean it barely flies, or do you mean it doesn't have quite enough power to do a triple piro chaos flipping auto thingamajig? ;) I'm wondering because I'm thinking about getting one so I can practice during the winter in my living room/shop. Don't want my thumbs to get rusty over the cold months lest I stuff my T-Rex or Knight 50 as soon as the snow melts. If it's got enough power for forward flight and mild aerobatics like loops, rolls, and inverted hovering I'll be tickled pink with the thing stock, as I haven't quite mastered the triple piro chaos flipping auto thingamajig just yet. I've searched a bit and you're the first evidence I've found that anyone actually owns one of these little mosquito simulators. I'm guessing that they're not amazingly popular, and usually there's a reason for that so I figured I'd ask someone that owns one

[scaredsilly]

When I say weak, i mean that it barely flies anymore. Literally about 3 seconds in the air before it comes back to earth, and very hard to control.
Having said that, it wasn't like that when i first got it. I loved it at first. I got almost 8 minutes of hover time on the tp480 lipos i'm using. I thought maybe the motor was dying, but I replaced it a day or so ago, and it's still the same. I think my batts are toast. They don't have balance plugs on them and i don't think the charger I was using was very good. I may go with an EVO lite 350 this time, just to see if that fixes the problem.

[raginredneck93]

Ah OK, so it flew great 'till it wore out, LOL. If it flew good new, then there's something that's definitely getting tired, or possible a combo of things. I would imagine that if you replaced the motor already, then the battery must be at fault as long as it isn't a worn out bearing that's dragging and robbing power or something. Glad to hear the little buggers fly though, hopefully I can pick one up before the snow flies. The Mrs. will just love me practicing in the living room . . . . . I'm sure of it. ;)

[buildem336]

I used a cc 10 with the 4000kv medusa 12mm brushless, Mini Zoom woodies, and gws tail motor those are the only mods needed to make these helis do pretty much anything you want.

Here are some vids of my Helis ( I have both the walkera 52 and venom micro, same heli)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txd4uvn_eEw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0CVrvILw7M

[raginredneck93]

I had heard that the Venom products were just relabeled and repriced Walkera stuff, but what I did not know was which particular Walkera was the same as the 3D Micro. I watched your vids, and it definitely doesn't look like this little bird is hurting for power after the brushless mod.

So is the 52 exactly the same heli other than appearance, or is there a reason why the Venom costs about $100 more? According to the 3D micro manual it has a gyro that can be switched between heading hold and rate mode, I'm wondering if that's true actually, but I haven't seen anything to that effect on the Walkera. The Venom manual also spells out several programming options that can be accomplished with DIP switches on the tx, is this the same for the Walkera? If there really is a difference I'd be more inclined to go with the Venom, but if they are indeed the same, I'm not wasting the extra $100. If you have both, then I figure you should know.

[skunkworx]

Holy cow! I got one of those about six months back, flew it about 7-8 times and haven't touched it since! Is that the new #52? I have the 'older' one and couldn't figure out what setup to use so it just fell to the wayside once I got my Trex going.

What gyro & blades are you using? I want to try putting my DX7 stuff on there so I'll at least have a decent starting base and go from there. Did you change out the servos as well? I just about gave up on the whole project, but now I might try it again if I can peice some stuff together for it!

[buildem336]

The venom micro and the walkera 52 are the exact same heli same transmitters everything just one has a green canopy and they do indeed have a heading hold gyro that works suprisingly very good I can do pretty fast reverse flight before the tail kicks out. The only mods my heli has are 3 things the brushless main motor setup, minizoom wooden blades and a gws tail motor. Everything else from the frame electronics, servos, transmitter is all stock. I have well over 300 flights on both the 52 and the venom micro with no problems same stock servos going strong, same head everything. I did use the walkera 64c canopy because its a little bigger and easier to see but other that that all it takes is lots of practice of the 5 helis I own including my t-rex 600 the walkera 52/venom micro is my favorite because it can do pretty much anything the big ones can but its so small I can fly it anywhere. My heli is not the new 52#1 but the regular 52 the new walkera 52#1 is not the same as the normal 52 and venom micro.

[skunkworx]

Nice. Thanks for the update. I know it's possible to work with the stock stuff, but I wanted to switch up to use my DX7 with it so I know exactly what is going on. To me, the dials were just too finicky and the stock blades seemed too fragile and definately had way too much flex. I had someone else recommend a Mini King brushed motor to upgrade from the cheapie stock motor, but wasn't sure how much more you'd get out of it -VS- B/L setup and if it was possible to run separates or not.

I still want to try anything I can, money is still a bit of a pinch, so the T-Rex gets more funding. Do you have to run 4100Kv + or will a smaller motor work? Hopefully by next payday I can get all the stuff to run it up again. I like the idea of having a project on the back burner!

Thanks again!

[buildem336]

I have tried many different motors before I settled with the meduse I tried the gunther, ammo, feigao,and the medusa was the best the most power and most efficiency. The medusa is available in 4000 and I believe 5300kv but the 4000 is what you want. The feigao 4100kv is the next best one but for my type of flying it would not cut it. It is possible to run seperates you are just going to have to get two esc one for the main motor and one for the tail motor, rx, gyro I thought about doing it too because I have a spectrum dx7 I use on my 600 and cp but It would just end up making the heli heavier plus it flys perfect with the stock electronics so it was not worth it to me to spend extra money just to end up with a heavier heli.

[skunkworx]

So for that 4Kv Medusa, you run a 10A or 12A ESC? I just knocked the dust off the 'ol bird this weekend to see if I could do anything with it. I'll try your recommendation though. I'll also get an AR6100 to stuff under the hood to see how it works. There is a micro gyro available, but have yet to hear how good it is versus the stock one.
Where can you order blades from? I'm still rockin' the stock foamie blades, so not much hard flying is possible. Did you get a different battery too? I'm sure I could get at least a 450mA+ size pack int there, but wasn't sure how well it could carry the weight. Thanks for the help! Hopefully I'll get it all going really really soon!

[raginredneck93]

The venom micro and the walkera 52 are the exact same heli same transmitters everything just one has a green canopy and they do indeed have a heading hold gyro that works suprisingly very good I can do pretty fast reverse flight before the tail kicks out. The only mods my heli has are 3 things the brushless main motor setup, minizoom wooden blades and a gws tail motor. Everything else from the frame electronics, servos, transmitter is all stock. I have well over 300 flights on both the 52 and the venom micro with no problems same stock servos going strong, same head everything. I did use the walkera 64c canopy because its a little bigger and easier to see but other that that all it takes is lots of practice of the 5 helis I own including my t-rex 600 the walkera 52/venom micro is my favorite because it can do pretty much anything the big ones can but its so small I can fly it anywhere. My heli is not the new 52#1 but the regular 52 the new walkera 52#1 is not the same as the normal 52 and venom micro.
So what's the difference between the old 52 and the new one? Do you think the new one has the same potential as far as gyro ect. is concerned? As near as I can tell from the crappy pics I've been able to find is the fact that the new 52 comes as a fixed pitch, with an extra servo to convert it to CP. That and it's yellow instead of clear. I've been watching several on ebay and the old and new versions seem to sell for about the same price. The new version claims to be all sorts of improved, but if that's not the case I'll buy one of the older versions before they're all gone.

[buildem336]

This is the esc that I use on my venom micro and walkera 52.

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/phoenix-10.html

Out of all the lipos I have tried the fullymax extreme 450mah lipo has been the best one. You can get it from sureflight in san diego.

http://www.sureflite.com/sureflite/products.php?mc=Batteries%20/%20Chargers&sc=%20Extreme%20Power%20Lipo&dtl=FB450XP-3S-WB&offset=0&pid=FB450XP-3S-WB

I get my wooden blades from helidirect I use the black blade spacers off the stock foam blades and CA them to the woodies I balance them and they fit perfect.

http://www.helidirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=167&products_id=3548

raginredneck93 I would just get the regular 52 the parts are more readily available and if you LHS carries the venom micro then you will have local parts support if not I get my parts from helidirect. If you get the 52#1 then not just anyone will have the parts.

[skunkworx]

Awesome! Thanks for the tip. The best parts supply I've found for the 52#1 is MidwestRC (I think they are closed for maintenance for a while) You can get a set of main blades for $3.75. Other parts are dirt cheap too with very reasonable shipping. They carry other Walkera parts as well.

http://www.midwest-rc.com/servlet/StoreFront

Sureflight carries the AR6100 for pretty cheap and the guys down there are really cool.

[raginredneck93]

OK, you've got me convinced. I'm going for the older version I think. Which tail motor did you say you use? I know you said a GWS, but what is it? I suppose it's probably glaringly obvious, but since I don't have the heli yet I don't have anything to compare it to. From what I understand, the stock motors in these don't last all that long, and I intend on going brushless as soon as my stock one bites the dust. With my luck, I'll end up setting a longevity record for Walkera 52 main motors, LOL.

[skunkworx]

The main motor can be replaced with this one (or equivalent);
https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=3737

As far as the tail motor, I couldn't really find anything. It's about 1/2 the size of the main, so B/L might be a bit rough to fit the bill. The brushed T/M's are cheap anyways and you can almost always tell when they are going to die on you before it fails 100%.

Just got a CC10 ESC for $30 off 'ol flea-bay. Dymond modelsports has a 12mm motor that would work (assuming that it will fit). I might try it out seeing I can always put it in something else if it turns out to be a flop. Chances are slim though because I'll still be going from the really poor efficiency of the brushed motor.

http://www.rc-dymond.com/index.php?productID=1415

[buildem336]

the 12mm brushless motor from dymond I tried it and its the worst of all It got hot really fast, and I almost want to say had less power than the stock motor. I threw mine away because it was worthless. Now the feigao motor is the next best choice next to the medusa. I flew the feigao for about 3 months but when I started to fly it harder It could not keep up thats when I ended up with the 12mm medusa. I would just go for the medusa its more money but trust me you will be happier with it.

Now the tail motor I use is this one

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A1190098&pid=S885382

I tried it with the supplied props for direct drive and it worked awesome. The problem is that with the direct drive set up it works to hard and gets really hot. With the DD setup I was getting anywhere from 15 to 20 flights. Now I use only the gws motor with the stock gear and pinion of the stock motor and Its really close to the DD but using the motor only with the stock setup I get anywhere from 100-125 flights.

The key to getting the tail to lock really good is also to run you heli in gov mode thay way the headspeed stays constant only pitch changes.

[skunkworx]

Cool. I figured I'd end up getting the Medusa myself, but couldn't quite scrape it together on this paycheck, so maybe after turkey day I'll get 'er going.

So that tail motor is rated for 7.2V, is that the output from the 3(or 4)-in-1? I have a small speed controller on hand and can run it as separates, but can't be sure it will work because I'll still need a gyro. The motor and maybe a gyro are the only things I need to finish it all up.
Speaking of which, how do you run in governer mode? I've heard of it, but never dealt with it.


BTW, do you use the stock pinions also? If so, Have you tried using anything else? Ever calculated or know what your headspeeds are? Thanks again for the help!

[buildem336]

I dont know how many volts the stock 4n1 is putting out all I know is that I get 100-125 hard flights on my tail motor. On the speed control under throttle settings I put it in heli high speed gov. Then under gov gain I set it to 100% so the gov keeps the headspeed as constant as can be. I tried flying in just heli throttle fixed endpoints but I get a little extra headspeed running in gov mode plus the heli definitly feels stronger. The pinion I am using is a 10 tooth I got from homefly. The medusa has a 1.5mm shaft. The headspeed I get with the 10 tooth is 4350rpm. When I fist started to learn with the heli I use to run a 7 tooth just to do FF and hovering it gave me about 2500rpm headspeed and about 15min flight time off of a 450mah lipo. In the set up I run now I can get about 5-6min of hard flying. Let me know when your helis ready maybe we can fly together.

[skunkworx]

Sounds good to me. Maybe I could meet up with you sooner than that and you can show me in person how your setup goes. I will be bringing both my Trex and my 52, so we might need a bigger field to fly in than you are used to.

I might get the motor on order this weekend and then see if I can piece it together by next weekend. The last time I flew it, the head bearings flew out of it because of a stripped screw, so I'll probably try to upgrade all the screws to avoid that mess again.

[buildem336]

The field that I fly in is huge I fly my T-rex 600 there with no problem. About 6 guys get together and fly here in vista every saturday and sunday morning at 8:30 am.

Check out post 23 my brother posted a pic of the field and directions to get there.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=678172&page=2

[skunkworx]

Bit of a drive for me seeing I live in El Cajon, but I'd like to come up and hang out for a while. You guys flying this Saturday? I'd have to get up there early because I have some football to watch with my father-in-law, but can stay until around 11 or 12. Assuming I don't crash, I have about 6 packs I can fly out, so I can get a full day out of it if needed.
I left my 52 in AZ while visiting my parent's by accident and won't be able to pick it up until next week, so if you want to bring yours it'd be cool. I've never seen a 600 fly (or one in person for that matter) so I'd be really interested in seeing that as well.

As far as directions, It's just past the courts/police buildings, etc... right? (Just up over the hill on the other side if memory serves me right) I can be up there by 7-9am so let me know when to show up.

[buildem336]

The field is right behind EL Pollo Loco and next to the court house. We will fly this saturday from 8:30 am till about 12:30 it depends how many people make it out I will bring my 52 and my 600 to fly so I will have about 8 packs between the two to fly. See you there.

[raginredneck93]

Thanks for the info buildem336, sounds like you've got the setup nailed on the 52. I just so happen to be dealing with a guy right now on a 3D Micro that already has a Medusa and a 10 amp Castle, so if I end up buying that one half the work's already done.

[skunkworx]

Hey Ragin', I just got to see Buildem's 52 fly today, HOLY COW!!! This little bird is dynamite! I had no clue how good it could be. I almost think I'll park my Trex and fly the lil 52 instead! :rolling

All-in-all, I learned a lot while hanging out with these guys at the field. I was really impressed with everyone there. I just wish I lived closer!