Raptor 90 SE vs. Raptor 90 3D

[vandelescrow]

I'm looking for my next heli and cant decide between the SE or 3D version and would like some honest opinions.

The write up on the 3D in RCHeli magazine said, “The head offers several different ratios to allow the pilot to set up the machine the way he or she likes to fly”. Does the SE have these same options?

Also, an old Rotorworld magazine said the SE is a bit slow on the cyclic (i.e. 3 rolls in 7 seconds). Has anyone put the new dampeners the 3D offers, in the SE and has this improved the cyclic response?

One part I’m torn on is the main grips. The SE offers metal, which will be more rigid, but they only accept 12mm blade root. The 3D is plastic so less rigid but with the Rotor Grip Spacer this would allow different size blade roots. Can someone please clarify this for me? Is the plastic grip more of a downside due to it being less rigid vs. metal that only allows one size blade root?

I’m planning to put the YS90 in it. The 3D has metal sideframes; the SE has carbon fiber with metal sideframe stiffeners. Which would be stronger as far as less vibration introduced by the motor and hold up better in the event Tara Firma is in a bad mood?

Thanks for any assistance for helping me decide between these two birds.

[capebob]

Not to mention the cost difference, the big advantage of the 90 3D is it's lighter than the SE. The SE is the heaviest of the modern 3D helicopters and it shows in its performance. I own both an SE and a Stratus and the Stratus out performs the SE by a good margin. I also have a 90 standard that 3Ds better than my SE. Having judged 3D performance I have to add a disclaimer. I'm no Henry Caldwell.

The SE does not provide for fly bar ratio options, but I don't think there is any reason that the 3D parts couldn't be fitted to the SE. Also, there are aftermarket options that improve the SEs performance As far as the difference between the metal and plastic grips, all I can say is my Stratus has plastic grips as do many of the top 3D machines. You can fit metal grips to the 3D if you want.

The stock SE is slow in pitch and roll, but that can be fixed with different paddles, dampeners, and fly bar ratios. The extra weight cannot be fixed so it will never be able to have the "pop" that a lighter machine will have.

As far as the frames go, I don't think it makes much difference what they are made out of. For 90 size machines the Raptors crash better than most. Don't ask me how I know that.

I've had more vibration problems with carbon fiber frames than metal or plastic ones, but that may just be me.

Of course you should get what you want, but I think you will find that the 3D will 3D better than the SE mainly because of the weight difference.

Bob

[alexander]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4hLnL9G2tB0

Set-up, skill and flying style. Either machine has the potential.SE flybar has holes for two ratios, you just have to use a bit of creativity. Those Curtis paddles and blades along with some fast, powerful ACE digitals seem to do the trick.Usually many brands need faster paddles and minor tweaks for good aggressive flyers. Pop is often a function of collective range which can be altered with inexpensive plastic mixers like the 3-D uses (or red-neck your own in 30 minutes at home)

[Kinger]

I'm not so sure the SE is the absolute heaviest machine out there. Maybe if you build it with all the stuff in the kit (carbon base plate for example), but most people don't. I'd also say that the Synergy seems MIGHTY close in the weight department. The Synergy may have more "pop", but that's probably more due to head design than anything else.

[Funky]

We were comparing weights of a Raptor 90 and a Synergy at the field last weekend. I am not sure about exact setups, but by picking up both machines (fueled and ready to fly) the Synergy was heavier. The raptor had a few weight saving mods (no bottom plate or horizontal fin), but nothing crazy and it was running the metal grips. Unfortunately we didn't have a scale to see how much of a difference there was :dontknow

[vandelescrow]

Thanks for the replies so far and keep them coming.

I’m not completely set on the Raptor 90 but there are two reasons I prefer it.

1st, I know it will fit in my car. At a recent fly in a person who has a Raptor 90 let me see if it would fit in the trunk, it does only with the canopy removed and the trunk lid hinges would not hit the fly bar. I’ve tried a different 90 and it would not fit, I think it was a Fraya but I don’t remember if I removed the canopy.

2nd, I currently have 2 Raptor 50s and the 90s are so close mechanically I figured it would be easier to stick with Raptor.

[Kinger]

A lot of people knock the Raptor 90, but the facts are, parts are readily available, they are less expensive than most other manufacturers, the machine doesn't suffer from part failures (if built correctly and believe me there are plenty of tips on the internet), it is SUPER easy to work on and it still can 3D with the best of them as Colin Bell and Jared Granzow show.

[vandelescrow]

Oh I know the Raptor is a good bird, infact the link alexander posted showed him doing 3d with it and after his video, there was a link of (I know I will spell it wrong) Allen Zabo flying a Raptor 90.

[Funky]

They are no slouch when it comes to extreme performance. They are also much easier to work on than some of the other high dollar 90s and parts prices are more on par with 50 helis than other 90s. After seeing pilots like Jared and Kinger beat on them, I am sold. My next 90 will definately be a Raptor 90SE.

[Dino Spadaccini]

Ok i have both the se and the 3d and i can say that i love my 3d over my se my the heli just locks in better feels mpre alive when i fly it, the ratio in the head have alot to do with that plus the new sea saw with is a 1/2 long over the se and has 28* of tilt in it over the 15* in the se, the plastic grip are fine i run radix 710 in them with the spacer that in the kit the grips are 16mm plastic the metel ones on the se are 12mm, the push pull on the collect give a great feel much more alive is all i can say, the push pull for the elev the same and now the metal bell cank on the elve tray has a split in it so it clamps and pins to the tray no more play there the new clutch there works great for 689.00 street it off every thing you need in the box. Get the 3d you will not be sorry Dino


here is colin flying my 3d 90 are ircha this year

http://www.runryder.com/rrtv.htm?v=/helicopter/rrTV-Photo/funflies/IRCHA2007/rrIRCHA07-Fri-14.wmv

my gear is
611
1313 servos
1015 on collect
14mz g3 rx
ys sr
mp5
rev max
6.0 nicads
cool power
radix 710 stick bangers that where colin i dont fly them
105 radix tails

[Ronbo]

Has anyone posted the part #s on the 3D that can enhance the R90s? IE, flybar, push pull, etc?

[vandelescrow]

You can download the manuals of both in pdf format from http://www.heliproz.com/manuals.asp

In researching the two helis (3D & SE) I've found this a big help in comparing them.

From what I gather, In a previous post by me I mentioned the 3D can have different settings in the head set up. From the manual it looks like the only thing that is different in the two, or what achieves this is the seesaw (BV0865).

Also the 3D has a different style damping system that (per RCheli magazine) is supposed to be much more rigid and can be used on any Raptor 90. It consists of an inner damper(BK0874) and outer damper (BK0875).

Other than the weight of the two, I don’t see anything else in the Raptor 3D that would give it more cyclic response than the SE.

Edit:
I found two more parts that are in the head of the 3D that make it faster cyclic, they are Flybar Control Frame (BK06333) and Mixing Lever (BK0324)

[vandelescrow]

Ok, I've decided on the 3D. The manual says "Note: Recommended rotor speed is 1450-1550 rpm for hover and 1800-1900 rpm for idle up aerobatics". I will be putting the YS91SR Long Stroke version with the Hatori SB-19FH exhaust. Because I have no info on this engine yet (optimum rpm range) what gear ratio will work best with this set up?

The kit comes with a 91 tooth main and 11 tooth pinion giving it a gear ratio of 8.27:1.

Also, I currently have Raptor 50s with OS hyper engines, with the gear ratio (8.5:1) in it the optimum head speed for that engine is 2000 rpm. From what I've seen from various sources on the internet, 90 size machines have a much lower head speed. Is the manual info of 1800-1900 rpm correct?

Thanks

Edit:
one more question, in a seperate post (pitch curves) I posted how i modified the frame on my Raptor 50 to get a larger pitch range out of it. I was originaly able to get -12 - +12 and now I'm getting -12 - +14. In the manual for the 90 3D it shows the pitch range as -11 - +13. should a simular mod be done to this machine? It looks like if you modify the Pitch Guide Collars it would do the same thing as my other post, or is this a no no? I dont know 90s so I need your advice on this one.

Thanks again

[ferincr]

Edit:
one more question, in a seperate post (pitch curves) I posted how i modified the frame on my Raptor 50 to get a larger pitch range out of it. I was originaly able to get -12 - +12 and now I'm getting -12 - +14. In the manual for the 90 3D it shows the pitch range as -11 - +13. should a simular mod be done to this machine? It looks like if you modify the Pitch Guide Collars it would do the same thing as my other post, or is this a no no? I dont know 90s so I need your advice on this one. Thanks again
I'm not 100% sure but I think in my R60 and R90SE the collective tray has full travel, so even if I modify the pitch guide collars on the frames the collective tray would hit the servo frame on the lowest position. (I guess:confused:)
Anyway I got +11-11 on the R60 with an OS70SZH and it really bogs down at full collective. Haven't flown the 90 much to see what can I get...