ESC and Batts.

[Wrench69]

Can some one please point me to a link discussing ESCs in depth and why lets say are CC ESC better then Hyperion or others.

Also batteries I still don't understand very well why some people like to stack packs rather then having larger batteries. What are the cons and pros of such setups..

Finnaly charging, I really don't get it. What is a good charger, how do you maintain your bats and such.

Thank you in advance and I am sorry if I missed something in the forums I did a quick search but nothing turned up.

[istandalone]

yea, i too wish there was a li-po 101 for idiots like me. i'm amazed that i haven't puffed any of my thunder power 1320's or electrifly 2100's yet.

[fiveoboy01]

Well I'm not an ESC expert, but the reason I use the CC products is their castle link. I don't have to do the "stick dance" to program them.

As for running two batteries in parallel, the reason that is done is because the person may not have a charger capable of handling a 6 or 8 cell lipo. Also, the smaller packs can be had a little cheaper.

As far as chargers, I use a Triton Jr. It works well for me and is pretty easy to use, I use it with the Equinox balancer. There are a lot of good choices out there though. I'm debating buying another charger, and I think it's going to be the Thuder power one or the FMA Cellpro. Just need to research them. It depends on how much you want to spend on the charger.

Care of lipos, I never let them run too low. I can get 7.5 minutes hovering with my Trex, but I set the timer to 6 minutes. The more capacity you leave in the pack when stopping to recharge, the better it is for the battery.

I always let my lipos cool down fully before recharging. I'll usually let them sit a good hour or two.

For storage, if they aren't going to be used for more than a few days or a week, I charge them to 50% capacity and store them in the fridge.

[Wrench69]

Well I'm not an ESC expert, but the reason I use the CC products is their castle link. I don't have to do the "stick dance" to program them.

As for running two batteries in parallel, the reason that is done is because the person may not have a charger capable of handling a 6 or 8 cell lipo. Also, the smaller packs can be had a little cheaper.

As far as chargers, I use a Triton Jr. It works well for me and is pretty easy to use, I use it with the Equinox balancer. There are a lot of good choices out there though. I'm debating buying another charger, and I think it's going to be the Thuder power one or the FMA Cellpro. Just need to research them. It depends on how much you want to spend on the charger.

Care of lipos, I never let them run too low. I can get 7.5 minutes hovering with my Trex, but I set the timer to 6 minutes. The more capacity you leave in the pack when stopping to recharge, the better it is for the battery.

I always let my lipos cool down fully before recharging. I'll usually let them sit a good hour or two.

For storage, if they aren't going to be used for more than a few days or a week, I charge them to 50% capacity and store them in the fridge.

Cool thanks for the tips.

What do you think of the Bantam BC6 AC/DC charger/blancer? Looks like a pretty good deal I am gone run mostly 3s bats any way. I can also get it for 140 dollars.

I think this is a good topic that has been missed by the tutorials but these parts are such integral pieces of the whole heli experience. Maybe finless can shed some light. I love his vids :D

LoL I should have looked more carefully.. I found it in the stickies.. I am a blind noob at 1 AM

Now I am trying to figure out the difference between BEC and OPTO and which are better.

[Pinecone]

Various ESCs have various good and bad points. The Castle Link is a VERY nice thing. But Hyperion also has a computer link for programming and also you can program from a Hyperion Emeter.

Castle was one of the first moderate cost, high quality ESCs out there, so they got a BIG following. There are more decent choices out there, but Castle still makes a very god product and has excellent support.

And one of the best things about Hacker, is that you can upgrade the firmware (or downgrade if a previous version worked better) yourself. With the Castle Link you hook it up and pick which firmware version you would like to run.

I run mainly Castle, but also have Hacker, Hyperion, Gaui, Align, Eflite, etc. It depends on what will do the job and I can afford at the time. Or in some cases, comes with the combo. :)

Some ESCs work better with some motors. I have one Hacker X20 because I bought a Hacker A20 motor for a Stevens Aeromadel Stella. People had found that, at the time, the Hacker motor wasn't happy with the Castle Phoenix 25. Of course, firmware updates may have changed that.


As for multiple packs, it also allows more flexivbility. I can fly my Hurricane 550 or my Quick of Japan EP8 with 2 of my Trex packs wired in series. Or with tow of my 3S 3200 packs I use with a EDF plank. If I had 6S packs, I can only use them on the heli. And in the case of the Hurricane 550, it was designed for 2 x 3S packs, so the battery mounting is set up for that. And I have the 3S packs, so that reduces the money outlay.

[fiveoboy01]

The BC6 looks like a pretty nice charger. I've never used one though, you might want to try posting on (gasp) RCGroups asking about it. I'm sure someone there has used one.

[RC Accessory]

Just do a search on BC-6, BC6 or e-station and you will find plenty of happy e-Station users. Also, Bantam is out of South Korea too.

[Wrench69]

Just do a search on BC-6, BC6 or e-station and you will find plenty of happy e-Station users. Also, Bantam is out of South Korea too.

Yeah I noticed that :)

Also Logictech is also a Korean company but their Gyros are stupid expensive here. Its cheaper to import one.

[kgfly]

My opinons...

For 3s/4s up to about 3300mAH:

* FMAdirect CellPro4s (50W/4A) - Best bargain LiXx-only charger
* eStation BC6 (50W/5A) - Most convenient and best ac/dc integrated multichemistry balance charger

For larger capacity packs:

Budget up to 6s: FMAdirect BalancePro (240W/10A) + WattsUp meter (charger has PC interface but no display hence the WattsUp meter to give visibility into recharge mAh without needing a PC).

Up to 8s: eStation BC8 (150W/7A) - Convenient integrated multichemistry balance charger.

10s/12s: eStation 902 (200W/10A), Hyperion 1210i (180W/10A), TP1010 (220W/10A) - All these require 1 or 2 external balancers plus various interconnect cables.

New chargers expected before the end of this year and worth looking for:
FMAdirect NextGen = BalancePro with enhancements including an integrated LCD (at last)
Hyperion 0610iNET = 1210i + LBA10 integrated into a single box = 2s-6s at ~150W
Hyperion DUO = two 0610i integrated into a single box = 2 x 2s-6s at ~180W

Here is a summary I put together a while ago that you might find useful:

Which charger ?
A high quality charger is vital to safety as well as ensuring the best performance and maximum lifetime from your batteries so this is not an area to pinch pennies. There are some excellent choices around. A lot depends on your budget but more on the combination of your current needs and your expectations for the future. If larger models are in your future you might want a higher power charger now than would otherwise be needed if small park flyers are all you will ever fly.

Recommendations
Budget 2S-4S LiXx only: FMA CellPro4S (dc only, 50W/4A)
Budget 2S-6S LiXx only:FMA BalancePro (dc only, 240W/10A)
Budget 2S-6S multi-chemistry full featured low power: eStation BC6 (ac/dc, 50W/5A)
Most convenient multi-chemistry full featured mid-range (2S-8S): eStation BC8 (dc only, 150W/7A)
Best value multi-chemistry full featured high-power/future proofing (2S-12S): Hyperion 1210i-A + 2xLBA10 (dc only, 180W/10A)

Notes
1) Most chargers require an external DC power supply so budget ~$50 for a 150W one to run one or two low-power chargers or ~$100 for a 250W one to run high-power chargers at full load.

2) For now the only LiFe cells available are the A123/M1 cells from DeWalt 36V power-tool battery packs bought on eBay for ~$100 and which contain 10 cells rated as: 3.3V 2300mAh 16C/33C. They weigh 70g each, can be 100% discharged without harm, present near zero fire risk even if abused and can be charged at up to 10A=4.3C.

FMA CellPro4S (~$75)
- Requires DC power
- LiXx charger: LiXx
- 2S to 4S LiXx
- Integrated balance charger
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 50W/4A output (3s @ 4A, 4s @ 3A)
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S <= 4000mAh, 4S <= 3000mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S <= 1.3C, 4S <= 1.3C
- Optional balance port adapters for Apogee, CommonSenseRC, ElectriFly, Polyquest, Tanic, ThunderPower, Universal

The best budget charger around for small 2S-4S packs. It won't charge your Tx or Rx NiCd packs but at $75 is great value for an intelligent and safe LiXx charger. Cheap enough you can get two and charge two packs at once to halve your waiting time. If you don't need NiCd/NiMH support and are sure larger models with larger batteries are not in your future or just want a cheap option to add along side a larger/fancier charger do some parallel charging then this can be an excellent low-cost solution.

Hyperion EOS5i AC/DC + LBA10 6S balancer (~$115 + $45 = $160)
- Integrated ac/dc power supply
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiPo/?LiFe?
- 2S to 5S LiPo
- Needs external balancer
- Normal LiPo cycles
- ~50W/5A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S <= 4500mAh, 4S <= 3400mAh, 5S <= 2700mAh

Convenient integrated AC/DC power supply and a proven multi-chemistry charger. Needs an external balancer. Only goes to 5S. Rumours that there is a new firmware version that adds LiFe (A123) support.

eStation BC6 (~$170)
- Integrated ac/dc power supply
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiIon/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 6S LiXx
- Integrated 2S-6S balancer
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 50W/5A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S <= 4500mAh, 4S <= 3400mAh, 5S <= 2700mAh, 6S < 2300mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S <= 2.2C, 4S <= 1.6C
- Optional temperature probe and PC interface
- Optional balance port adapters for Align, DualSky, Graupner, FlightPower, Kokam, Polyquest, ThunderPower, MPX

A great integrated package providing a one-box solution (ac/dc power supply, multi-chemistry charger and balancer). The 50W/5A output means it's not well suited to high capacity 6S packs used in say a TRex600, but it will do a great job on most packs you would typically see in anything smaller. Although it initially looks expensive, since it is all 3-in-1 you don't have to buy a DC power supply or separate balancer so in fact it is very competitively priced.

I would definitely choose the BC6 over the EOS5i for its all-in-one convenience, 6S capability, LiFe support and better features (like the Fast and Storage charge modes).

FMAdirect BalancePro + WattsUp meter ($105+55=$160)
- Requires DC power
- No display (hence the addition of a WattsUp meter to monitor volts/amps/mAh into the battery)
- LiXx only (LiIon/LiPo/LiFe/LiMn)
- 2S to 6S LiPo/LiFe
- Integrated balancer
- Cell recovery, Normal/Fast and A123 cycles
- 240W/10A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 2s-6s <= 10000mAh
- A123 charge rate: 2s-6s <= 4.5C
- Optional PC inteface cable.
- Optional balance port adapters

Fantastic value for a smart, simple to use, fully automatic but safe integrated high power Lixx balance charger. With a PC attached you can monitor all the pack/charge parameters but since it has no display, without a PC you are operating blind. I am not happy with that so I would combine the charger with an inline WattsUp meter to at least be able to know the pack charge state and total mAh recharge. Even with the price of the meter (which you can use for inflight power-system analysis too) this is excellent value and well worth considering. Heck at this price you can get two and have two packs on the go at a time. NOTE that there are rumours of an updated version with integrated display due out some time in 2007.

eStation BC8 ($270)
Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiIon/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 8S LiXx
- Integrated 2S-8S balancer
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 150W/7A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S/4S/5S <= 7000mAh, 6s <= 6500mAh, 8S < 4900mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 3C, 8S <= 2.4C
- Optional temperature probe and PC inteface cable.
- Optional balance port adapters for Align, DualSky, Graupner, FlightPower, Kokam, Polyquest, ThunderPower, MPX
Same features and benefits as the BC6 except DC-only input, 2S to 8S capability and the much higher output power makes this a real option for larger packs or fast charging A123 packs at up to 7A. The integrated balancer is unique in a charger of this capacity and is a big plus in my opinion.

Hyperion 1210i-A + 2xLBA10 6S balancer (~$200 with 1xLBA10, ~$240 with 2xLBA10)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiPo/LiFe
- 2S to 12S LiPo/LiFe
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 6S, 2 for 7S-12S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 180W/10A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 2x/3S/4S <= 10000mAh, 5s <- 9500mAh, 6S <= 7900mAh, 8S <= 6000mAh, 10S <= 4800mAh, 12S <= 4000mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S <= 4.3C, 6S <= 4.0C, 8S <= 3.0C
- Optional temperature probe and PC inteface cable.
- Be sure to get the data cable and network cable for the balancers
- Optional temperature probe
- Optional balance port adapters

A high-power charger that goes right up to 12S for a bargain price. Excellent features (similar to the eStation range) including LiFe support (must be the latest firmware, the -A model). While not as convenient as the BC8 (since you need up to two external balancers), this is great value for money given its 12s capability and high output power. The LBA10 balancer is limited to about 180mA discharge which can make balancing a slow process.

Tough choice between the BC8 and the 1210i-A. I think both are excellent chargers with great features and flexibility and good UIs (at least as far as I can assess from their user guides). I really like the convenience of the BC8's integrated balancer (less boxes, cables and mess) but the 1210i is a excellent value if you need either the extra power or to go over 8s.

eStation 902 + 2x PB6 6S balancers ($270+ 2x$60 = $390)
- Requires DC power
- Multi-chemistry charger: NiCd/NiMH/Pb/LiIon/LiPo/LiFe
- Dual output (2nd output is NiCd/NiMH only, eg charge your Tx as well as your lipos)
- 2S to 12S LiXx
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 6S, 2 for 7S-12S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 200W/9.9A output
- 1C LiPo charge: 3S/4S/5S <= 9900mAh, 6S <= 9200mAh, 8S <= 6900mAh, 10S <= 5500mAh, 12S <= 4600mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 4.3C, 8S <= 3.3C, 10S <= 2.6C, 12S <= 2.2C
- Be sure to get the data cable and network cable for the balancers
- Included: temperature probe and PC inteface cable
- Optional balance port adapters for Align, DualSky, Graupner, FlightPower, Kokam, Polyquest, ThunderPower, MPX

A high-power charger that goes right up to 12S. Excellent features (mostly the same as BC8). While not as convenient as the BC8 (since you need up to two external balancers), this is an excellent 12s charger with high power output. The PB6 balancer has a 500mA discharge rate, one of the highest around, and a good aluminium case to dissipate the heat. This increases flexibility and speeds the balancing process.

ThunderPower 1010 + 210V balancer (~$200 + $100 = $300)
Requires DC power
- LiXx charger: LiIon/LiPo/LiFe (new firmware adds NiCd/NiMH/Pb)
- 2S to 10S LiXx
- Needs external balancer (1 for up to 10S)
- Normal, Fast and Storage LiPo cycles
- 220W/10A output
- 1C lipo charge: 3S/4S/5S <= 10000mAh, 6S <= 9500mAh, 8S <= 7500mAh, 10S <= 5800mAh
- A123 charge rate: 3S/4S/5S/6S <= 4.3C, 8S <= 3.6C, 10S <= 2.9C
- Be sure to get the data cable and network cable for the balancers
- Optional temperature probe and PC inteface cable.

A high-power charger that goes up to 10S. Currently LiXx only but the latest firmware adds NiCd/NiMH/Pb. Unique in this group in allowing end-user firmware upgrades with the purchase of the optional interface cable. This charger is hugely popular in the US with those flying 500 class and bigger helis. If 10s is all you need then the convenience of only a single balancer (compared to the e902 and 1210i) is nice to have. TP use an odd split lead arrangement for balancing packs above 4A which is a bit of a pain IMO.


--------------------
I hope that is some help.

[Wrench69]

Thank you so much.

I am geting an Ep8 I think I am gone stick to two 3s C, cause the bc6 can't charge a 4000 mah bats that are 3s. Plus if I loose one battery I still have another one so I loose half the money.

Good lord these chargers are pricy.

Huge difference in the price of a 500 size heli and the 450.

Good lord these chargers are pricy.

Huge difference in the price of a 500 size heli and the 450. Now I know the difference. Oh well at least it will be more stable machine

[fiveoboy01]

Kgfly, that was likely the only long post I've ever read. Great info, as I'm thinking of adding another charger.

[kgfly]

am geting an Ep8 I think I am gone stick to two 3s C, cause the bc6 can't charge a 4000 mah bats that are 3s. Plus if I loose one battery I still have another one so I loose half the money.

If I understand, you plan to run two 3s 4000mAh batteries as either 3s2p 8000 or 6s1p 4000. Using split packs does have the advantage you mention, plus potentially more flexibility in mounting on the heli for best balance.

In either case, the BC6 will be able to charge them either one at a time at 1C or together in parallel or series at approx 0.5C.

If you don't need support for NiCd/NiMH/Pb then one option is to get two CellPro4s and a DC power supply. It will cost just a little more than a BC6 but give you 1C charging of two 3s 4000 packs at a time.

BTW those are big batteries for an EP8. I used to fly mine on 3s2p 4400 (that is, 2 x 3s 2200). You might want to check that 2 x 3s 4000 will fit and balance properly. Also in Australia the EP8 parts are expensive compared to an HDX500 and almost certainly compared to the soon to be released TRex500. You might want to consider those 500-class alternatives. Otherwise a GAUI Hurricane 550 is cheaper to put in the air and keep there than an EP8 and even more stable and easier to fly, worth considering too.

[Wrench69]

If I understand, you plan to run two 3s 4000mAh batteries as either 3s2p 8000 or 6s1p 4000. Using split packs does have the advantage you mention, plus potentially more flexibility in mounting on the heli for best balance.

In either case, the BC6 will be able to charge them either one at a time at 1C or together in parallel or series at approx 0.5C.

If you don't need support for NiCd/NiMH/Pb then one option is to get two CellPro4s and a DC power supply. It will cost just a little more than a BC6 but give you 1C charging of two 3s 4000 packs at a time.

BTW those are big batteries for an EP8. I used to fly mine on 3s2p 4400 (that is, 2 x 3s 2200). You might want to check that 2 x 3s 4000 will fit and balance properly. Also in Australia the EP8 parts are expensive compared to an HDX500 and almost certainly compared to the soon to be released TRex500. You might want to consider those 500-class alternatives. Otherwise a GAUI Hurricane 550 is cheaper to put in the air and keep there than an EP8 and even more stable and easier to fly, worth considering too.

I ment I was going to run a 4c1p 4300 mah.

I am in Asia Parts for the Ep8 are not a problem, fairly cheap as well. Other helis are.. If I wanted cheap I should have done an ESKY. I still might later on

[kgfly]

I ment I was going to run a 4c1p 4300 mah
OK, so for 4s1p 4300mAh your best options are probably either a BC8 or a BalancePro or if you are not in a hurry, the Hyp 0610i which will probably fall bewteen those others in price. I have seen some positive comments about the TahmazoT30 from folks in Asia so perhaps that will be affordable (I found it for SGD$300): http://shop.singahobby.com/?q=node/12651

[Wrench69]

OK, so for 4s1p 4300mAh your best options are probably either a BC8 or a BalancePro or if you are not in a hurry, the Hyp 0610i which will probably fall bewteen those others in price. I have seen some positive comments about the TahmazoT30 from folks in Asia so perhaps that will be affordable (I found it for SGD$300): http://shop.singahobby.com/?q=node/12651

Yeah the Bc6 can't be beat in price imho. I only plan to fly mostly on the weekends. I think this is the bigest bird I want to get.

Now my question is if I plan to use split packs what motor do I need for up to 6s?

I currently have a Hyperion 3025 as a plan. The specs show 2s - 5s lipos.

There is so much I don't understand about this hobby yet.

[Pinecone]

I was going to say the same ting, that those packs are LARGE for an EP8. I normally fly mine on 5S 2100 packs. ONE pack. I have a 5S 3700 Flight Power that is huge and make the ship a bit nose heavy, with the standard servo mount.

If you want to run two packs, I would run 2 x 3S 2100 packs in a 6A1P configuration. The only reason I did not do this with my setup was that the combo ESC on did up to 5S, as did my BEC. And I came across a great deal on some 5S packs.

If I were doing it over again, or if these packs give up, I will convert to 2 x 3S 2100 - 2500 packs in series.

My charging setup is:

1 - Original Triton - All types of batteries up to 4S lipo, the plan being to sell this one when I got the next one, but I haven't gotten around to it. :)
1 - Triton2 with Equinox balancer - All types up to 5S lipo
1 - Thunder Power 1010C with 210V balancer - up to 10S, high power. I charge my 2 x 3S packs for my Hurricane on this in series.

If FMA actually ever releases 6 cell version of the CellPro (with display) I will buy one or two of them.

[Wrench69]

Yeah I think running multiple packs is the best for me. 3SX2100Mah. Only 55 dollars a piece compared to 120 dollars for a 4s4350.

I just don't anything about motors. I am planing on the Hyperion 3025 Can it handle two packs?

The ESC I am going with is going to be a CC60 with an external bec.

[Pinecone]

Yes.

[Randallhurd]

I have a BC 6 and l;ove it.
I set it on AUTO. It automatically detects any battery for the right cell/amp/ and configuation, no programming required.
I also bought both, the Thunder Power Balancer plug and the Align Balancer plug.
Those were 6 bucks each...
Another cool thing about the BC6 is that, it has a Car Battery connector. So you can basically plug in at home or on the Go..
I love it.