Out Of Sight

[diveman123]

Hi people. I just want to thank everyone who has helped me with my hobby. Finless, the man. Jermo same for you. Ok, question. Can I buy one of these wireless cameras and mount it to a Trex 450 or better yet a Trex 600 and really fly OUT OF SIGHT using a monitor. Will there be too much lag in the reception? I am currently using a trex 450, but I'm considering a 600 for the task. Best system if possible and the cost? Thanks.

[diveman123]

I forgot to mention I am using a dx7.

[diveman123]

I've looked at "Range Video". Will it work?

[jaywhy]

I've wondered the same - however, I've tried flying the sim in cockpit view and have to say I don't believe it's possible. It's just too hard to fly without being able to see the main rotor disk and the tail orientation.

To do it, IMO, you'd need a heli setup with a couple more gyros to keep stable. (Fixed pitch possibly might work?)

[Razor_Racer]

I would think that not knowing where you are (from the heli perspective) would be a problem, too. Could be preoccupied in keeping the heli in the air, but then forget where you have to land! But there are some nice GPS systems out there, but that and a flight stabilizers with gyros = $$$$ :(

[MarkWebber]

The range video unit I've got isn't good for enough range. I can still see my heli when the link starts to fail.

[diveman123]

I fly Real Flight in cockpit view all the time with no problem. I just wondering if there is lag in the video and with a more powerful receiver from "Range Video" if it was possible. The video on their website looks like he is doing it. I dunno.

[warrengrob]

Yeah I've spent some time thinking about harassing my neighborhood too. Even if you do get a setup that works well enough for you to do that. I think the hardest thing would not be knowing what's around you. I mean all you can see is in front of you. If you're flying way up there, you will not be able to tell if your drifting backwards, and you may end up in a tree or something. If you had a camera that you could rotate in all directions, being controlled by a virtual reality helmet, I think it would be easier, and unbelievably cool!!!!:nanabobo

[Razor_Racer]

People have done that before with servos and video goggles. Had a small micro camera hooked up to a little pan and tilt system on a plane. Downlinked to video goggles. The cool thing was, there was some kind of sensor on the video goggles, so if you turned your head left, the camera panned on the plane, and same thing with tilt! Too bad I cant find the video anymore...

[diveman123]

Check out there website and watch the video on their home page. I think they are doing it. Just punch in Range Video in google. I'm going to see if I can call the company up and get some answers. I'll post when I find out.

[crewchief]

You can't fly a heli using a monitor, goggles, etc., alone because you don't have the peripheral vision necessary to correctly judge your attitude, altitude, distance from objects, etc. People have been trying for years with things like the DraganFlyer, but there's no record of success. Essentially the aircraft has to be able to fly itself autonomously, and your role is to send course corrections based on what you're seeing through the downlink video. Also highly illegal.

[bullaculla]

Essentially the aircraft has to be able to fly itself autonomously, and your role is to send course corrections based on what you're seeing through the downlink video. Also highly illegal.

Exactly. Its also against AMA rules, and for good reason. If you fly out of sight, how will you know how far away your heli is? How will you know when you are near the limit of your video link? What if a full size heli or plane is approaching you from the rear? And what will you do when you lose the video link? run towards where you think it is untill it comes back on? :YeaBaby:
Having said that, Using a camera looking forward, mounted on the tail boom might help with positoning and flying the heli. But only while using the single side type goggles combined with looking at your heli with the naked eye.

[ErichF]

Mark, which unit are you flying? We have a couple 1W 2.4 systems from Range Video that push out to a couple miles. They are the cased versions, so have some shielding. Maybe that helps. Also, we use an 8dB patch antenna with only a 6 inch coax to the receiver.


BTW, flying a heli in FPV isn't incredibly hard, as long as you keep your situational awareness. I had the chance to fly an autopilot equipped T-Rex via FPV video recently, and it was quite intuitive, even in manual modes. This ist the little guy I flew: http://www.adaptiveflight.com/

Then again, I'm quite experienced in flying FPV, so my opinion may be biased. If you can do the cockpit view in the sim, you should be able to do it IRL.

I agree with most here, though, that you should only do it close to you, and have a safety pilot on a buddy box. You also have to have a bullet proof, 1W video link and someone to aim the receiver antenna at the heli during the whole flight.

The range video unit I've got isn't good for enough range. I can still see my heli when the link starts to fail.

[diveman123]

I've been looking a videos of flight and think that if the camera was angled straight forward (like in the sim) and not down at a 45 degree angle it should work. I called the guy from range video and he told me they were doing it with airplanes. Cost about 300-400 bucks. I would have to have the helicopter in view for landings though. They also sell a telemetry (spell?) device that will send gps-speed/altitude/ and flight time / volts remaining. Costs extra, another 300. I dunno

[diveman123]

I forgot to add the guy told me to check out this website. It seems alot of people are doing it. I think.

[bullaculla]

I think on camera on the tail boom looking down and forward would be a good spot if you could only use one camera. That way, you could still see the ground and the head.

[DKTek]

Guys, this is really easier than you'd expect. I fly around the house and from room to room with the XRB and a cam mounted on the front. I have zero reference to the heli, ie- no part in the picture. Only clues I have are the video itself. I'm told that when I want to hover, I maintain my position within a foot and a half of where I want to be. Passing through a doorway is a little tense at times but always doable.

I do have a X11 FPV set from RC- Tech ( http://www.rc-tech.ch/web/ ) and it is a blast as well. Start off with an XRB first. I also have the Blade CX but it doesn't have the power that the XRB has.

Practice pilots view with sim until you can hover stationary. Not just be along for the ride but actually FLY the heli. I advertise my maps as FPV whatever maps on RealFlight multiplayer. Loads of fun. I can hover inverted as well...pilots view.

Practice, practice, practice.....and have fun. BTW, for in house flying, I use a Diversity Receiver and place my antenaes in seperate parts of the house. This gives me less breakup and breathing in the video.

Dan

[diveman123]

Thanks buddy. I went to RC Groups and started asking questions. I got everything from "it's too dangerous with a heli (but ok with a plane; geeze) to " things a alot different looking up there in the sky, you'll get lost. I just want to talk to people that are knowlegable with pilot view flight (pvf) and helicopter applications. Basically I was told this would destory the world. I think the truth being is that most of the people who replied to my posts where airplane pilots. I've never flown rc planes, just helis. They told me it would be too hard. I'm not extream 3D pilot or anything. Just a guy and a vision. HaHa.

[DKTek]

Diveman, it's like owning a gun. Mistreat it and bad things happen, respect it and a real relationship can happen accompanied by a load of fun and excitement.

Indoors, I choose a heli with plenty of power and styrofoam blades to boot. Aside from a direct hit to the eye, it's pretty safe if you realize when to kill the power to them, ie- imminent collisions. Blades are super cheap too. Fly the usual walk paths to avoid landing on lamps and such. NO fireplaces and watch out for cats...they are a lot faster than any 3D pilot.

Outdoors requires a lot more attention to detail, especially safety. Use the buddy box (safety pilot) and practice flying the heli with the camera gear installed but visually as normal. Know that when you pull collective that the heli is in trim. Record the flight and make a mental note of the horizon in hover and various flight modes. Watch for movement references like the grass moving away or whatever direction.

Try using the old training gear for your first flights under the hood. The extra weight will help dampen the controls a little and give you a little more secure feeling when landing. Mine gave me the ability to roll on my landings if wanted. That was really fun for autos under the hood.

I have to mention one observation here. When flying the airplanes, I absolutely love the X11 but I prefer to hover the heli locked forward. Add a flight stabilizer to the mix and that's another security blanket but your better off learning to FPV as basic a set up as possible. The extra cushion is nice but I'm better off knowing I can fly without it. Have fun and good luck.

Dan

[diveman123]

Watch out for cats, that's funny. Mine move about as fast as the fireplace when I flew my blade pro in the house. Pull out the vacume cleaner and they are gone!

[Windbreaker]

I'm planning to use the FPV view via a monitor as an additional reference, the same way a VFR pilot uses an artificial horizon as an additional attitude reference in full-scale planes. To have only an FPV view -- while certainly interesting and useful -- defeats part of the purpose of this for me. I'd like to see it flying, too.

In case there's any question of the attitude of the helicopter, at the very least I can keep it right-side up. And that seems to be a major part of avoiding a crash in any kind of aircraft.

Right now, however, I'm still staying within an inch of the ground. Sticking to the RADD training regimen until I'm familiar and comfortable with the controls.

At least I know the helicopter's working properly.

[bullaculla]

Indoors, I choose a heli with plenty of power and styrofoam blades to boot. Aside from a direct hit to the eye, it's pretty safe if you realize when to kill the power to them, ie- imminent collisions. Blades are super cheap too. Fly the usual walk paths to avoid landing on lamps and such. NO fireplaces and watch out for cats...they are a lot faster than any 3D pilot.

I think this is why he is getting such mixed results. Some people, like me who are used to being around bigger helis immediately visualize doing this on a large heli. And to me, it seems dangerous. If you have ever been around a trex600 plowing into the ground, you would think so too :D
I know you are around big helis DTtek, but would you do this on your Vario?
A trex 450, not too bad of an idea.
I do fly around in FPV in the simulator and even do auto rotations in this view, but i still think its unsafe in the real world in case of either lost video signal or control signal. Sure tearing around your house or yard is fine, but navigating around your neighborhood could be very dangerous and against the rules if not breaking a few laws. Also, keep in mind that the ar6100 is considered a park flyer RX. not too much range on that one anyway.
rangevideo states the 500mw TX is okay for out of sight, but just to be safe, i'd go with 1watt. but I believe you'd need an amateur ham radio licence for that.
Did you guys see the "pandoras box" on rangevideo.com? pretty cool :thumbup:

[DKTek]

I know you are around big helis DTtek, but would you do this on your Vario?

rangevideo states the 500mw TX is okay for out of sight, but just to be safe, i'd go with 1watt. but I believe you'd need an amateur ham radio licence for that.
:

Bullaculla, I'd fly the XLV FPV with a qualified safety pilot using the buddy box. Heck yeah! It's very stable and can carry a high res cam. I'd use the X11 set up with a GPS OSD. I've got the 1 watt transmitter and YES it does require the basic tech licence.

Common sense is required here. You cannot do this in an uncontrolled enviroment, ie- over a neighborhood or anyones private property. Under a movie permit and on a closed set is fine, it's a controlled environment. A flying field IMO is fine but stay within the bounds of that field.

Most who do fly FPV do it in sparsley populated ares, ie- the desert, private acerage, the country side... Away from people.

[bullaculla]

Now that I agree with ;)

[DKTek]

This is simple enough.