View Full Version : Aurora Ultimate v. X-Cell Fury
Royster
10-23-2007, 01:19 AM
Being away from helis for a few years and now getting back into it. Has anyone got some words of wisdom to the following Questions. I have always wanted an X-Cell machine, however after seeing the new Aurora Ultimate i have changed my mind. It truly is a beautiful piece of engineering.
1. Is it sacrilege to use Aurora as a beginners machine / Trainer
2. Reasons for choosing Avant over MA
3. Spares availability into the future is a big concern. Running High $ machines you need to be confident that it will not end up on the shelf . However with the Ultimate it seems a shame not to keep it in the main living area next to the Plasma !! :thumbup:
Being away from helis for a few years and now getting back into it. Has anyone got some words of wisdom to the following Questions. I have always wanted an X-Cell machine, however after seeing the new Aurora Ultimate i have changed my mind. It truly is a beautiful piece of engineering.
1. Is it sacrilege to use Aurora as a beginners machine / Trainer
2. Reasons for choosing Avant over MA
3. Spares availability into the future is a big concern. Running High $ machines you need to be confident that it will not end up on the shelf . However with the Ultimate it seems a shame not to keep it in the main living area next to the Plasma !! :thumbup:
Well lets see the Fury is real and can actually get one. The Aurora is still a figment of Augusto's imagination.
No seriously if you want something now you will have to go with the MA.
Be sure to check out the Synergy N9
WillJames
10-23-2007, 08:59 AM
THe Aurora is real to. Check out the Avant R/C Forum and see the video showing all the parts and the kit boxes and stuff. Pretty cool video.
DebianDog
10-23-2007, 09:53 AM
Having seen the Aurora factory video, when the kit comes out there will be LOTS of parts. However, you can't go wrong with MA either.
But if you are just getting back into the hobby I would suggest a 50 sized Align, Raptor, Evo, Compass, etc.. Lots of parts and cheaper to crash. Then when you want a 90 for the 2nd "real" helicopter you can make a more informed decision.
My 2C
DavidH
10-23-2007, 10:20 AM
Some good reading here.
http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/f105p1/
Most of the topics have been closed, thou you can still read them,
David
Yea, I saw the video... but it raises more questions than it answers. Personally I dont know why Augusto is being so elusive.... why doesnt he just come clean and state what the delays are. It sure seems that he wants Avant to be a top-notch heli with great customer service, but it doesnt seem to be proving that.
ClayK
10-23-2007, 09:09 PM
Yea, I saw the video... but it raises more questions than it answers. Personally I dont know why Augusto is being so elusive.... why doesnt he just come clean and state what the delays are. It sure seems that he wants Avant to be a top-notch heli with great customer service, but it doesnt seem to be proving that.
He might be considered "elusive" because he's focusing on getting a product to market. I played the waiting game for a Razor Nitro, but moved on to a TRex 600N and I couldn't be more happy with the performance and price. I'm looking forward to the Aurora release, but then again, I'm not "chomping at the bit" because it hasn't come to market just yet. Sure, I'd like it at market now, but I'd also like Futaba FASST for my 14 here too. I'd rather it get released right rather than too soon and have it either buggy or not properly supported (plethora of parts).
90 sized machines aren't cheap to repair. If the parts cost are what Auggie said, I think that will make a big impression. It is what it is, it will come when it comes. :) :thumbup:
WillJames
10-23-2007, 09:31 PM
I agree with you 100% Clay. I will wait until the Aurora is released, I will definitely have at least one Aurora-E. 90 Size machines just fly better, I miss my Ion-X. :(
Anyway, it is what it is... the hobby is progressing and I will pick what I want and if it takes waiting so be it. I have a ittle experience on the dev side of things and it can get costly. I'll wait... and try to be patient.....
As for the 14... I fly DX7 ow and I am happy. Probably X9303 or 12X soon....
Hey I have no issue with waiting for a good product. I do however, have a problem with manufacturers that go to press way before they are ready. As I see it, Augusto posted here the following (on July 19) "At this point we have no more changes pending and all the parts are now in release status" Well to me that sure seemed like the product was due within weeks.
Now its always possible that further problems developed... and thats fine with me. However after posting that the relaease is imminent they at least need to communicate to everyone what the hold up is. Look at Apple. they originally promised Leopard last May/June. And Steve stood up and said "hey guys, we are going to miss that release date because we had to refocus resources to the iPhone" And everyone was mostly ok with that.... Steve had a reason.
If Avant was a public company with investors there is no way that the "street" would keep stringing a company along with postponed release date after postponed release date.
So am I ok with the delays, but I am not ok with the lack on infomation, if Augusto is really trying to build a company based on customer service, then there is no harm in communicating.... its better to control the flow of information rather then let the masses "imply" information.
WillJames
10-24-2007, 05:00 AM
Hey I have no issue with waiting for a good product. I do however, have a problem with manufacturers that go to press way before they are ready. As I see it, Augusto posted here the following (on July 19) "At this point we have no more changes pending and all the parts are now in release status" Well to me that sure seemed like the product was due within weeks.
Now its always possible that further problems developed... and thats fine with me. However after posting that the relaease is imminent they at least need to communicate to everyone what the hold up is. Look at Apple. they originally promised Leopard last May/June. And Steve stood up and said "hey guys, we are going to miss that release date because we had to refocus resources to the iPhone" And everyone was mostly ok with that.... Steve had a reason.
If Avant was a public company with investors there is no way that the "street" would keep stringing a company along with postponed release date after postponed release date.
So am I ok with the delays, but I am not ok with the lack on infomation, if Augusto is really trying to build a company based on customer service, then there is no harm in communicating.... its better to control the flow of information rather then let the masses "imply" information.
We are talking R/C helis here not a public company. hahahaha Augusto has a sense of humor, he is probably enjoying watching the people. Go to the Avant r/C site and check the video of the parts and boxes. Yes everyone those are real heli parts. ;)
You guys bust me up man. It will be ready when it is. How many HELI companies DO hit their target date, I can't remember any......... Definitely NOT MA either, look at the X2. Very interesting.....
If you don't want an Aurora then don't buy one, the people waiting like me want it to be right when it comes out. I am not buying stock, I am buying a heli.
Will,
I think you are missing my point. Manufacturers that miss release date is common... actually I have no issue with Avant missing and keep postponing the release date. However, what I do question is the lack of information provided as to the reason for the delays. I would think that good customer service would indicate communication to the customers...
All in all, my point is that if a company wants to be know for good customer service then what wrong with communicating delays to the consumer... why is the infomation about these delays so lacking???
Hey I for one will buy an Avant whenever it comes out. I just wish we knew what the hold up was, as I think this would eliminate the rumors. As I hate hearing things like the reason the Avant hasnt been released is because it doesnt work on 72mhz when that is completely WRONG.
Royster
10-24-2007, 01:05 PM
Build It and they will come .... They have .!! ... Avant 1 Humans 0 nuff said.
ClayK
10-24-2007, 01:36 PM
Another thing to note:
Augusto didn't want anything to come to press. CAD drawings were "leaked" and the buzz was on. Unfortunately, that buzz and rumor mongerers have spun this up to critical mass. Ask Augusto one day about it, this didn't go down the way he wanted. So really, the issue on the release date is not something that was intended or planned. :dontknow
So any "delays" to consumer are really non-existent since there shouldn't have been a "release date" as we perceive it.
WillJames
10-24-2007, 06:21 PM
Will,
I think you are missing my point. Manufacturers that miss release date is common... actually I have no issue with Avant missing and keep postponing the release date. However, what I do question is the lack of information provided as to the reason for the delays. I would think that good customer service would indicate communication to the customers...
All in all, my point is that if a company wants to be know for good customer service then what wrong with communicating delays to the consumer... why is the infomation about these delays so lacking???
Hey I for one will buy an Avant whenever it comes out. I just wish we knew what the hold up was, as I think this would eliminate the rumors. As I hate hearing things like the reason the Avant hasnt been released is because it doesnt work on 72mhz when that is completely WRONG.
It is easy to come into helis nad try to apply your idea of what customer service is or is not to helis. Customer service is shipping the parts BEFORE you ship the helis. Is Avant R/C Doing that? From what I have heard from a retailer that will carry the Aurora, the parts will come before the heli. I think this is a good enough example to emphasize my point.
It takes time to see and be able to understand to some degree how this business works. It is not simple.
invertmast
10-24-2007, 09:46 PM
It is easy to come into helis nad try to apply your idea of what customer service is or is not to helis. Customer service is shipping the parts BEFORE you ship the helis. Is Avant R/C Doing that? From what I have heard from a retailer that will carry the Aurora, the parts will come before the heli. I think this is a good enough example to emphasize my point.
It takes time to see and be able to understand to some degree how this business works. It is not simple.
Which brings up a good point. Would everyone rather of had a 600N 2 months before parts were available and then when someone busts the heli up they have a pile of parts b/c they can't get them b/c they are back up in manufacturing process'. I know i wouldn't.
I've done business w/ Avant and CarbonXtreme. everyone says they have terrible customer service, but i have to disagree.. i placed an order on a sunday night at 2am and put in the incorrect expiration date for my CC. they emailed me the next day at 9am there time telling me what i needed to do to remedy the situation. I put it in during lunch and recieved my programmabe head and some extra "crash spares" on thursday. I was impressed with it. But i will admit i was leary at first b/c there was no phone number available but i have had nothing but good luck.
And just look at it this way.
Since augusto is wanting to ship PARTS and spares to the dealers BEFORE the heli is shipped to the dealers, then obviously from the video of all the Spare PARTS that this thing is getting much closer.
So when u hear that dealers are getting parts for the aurora, the heli itself can't be to far behind.
meanwhile i bought a FX second hand to hold me over till the aurora is available and this is the BEST heli i have ever flown (minus some stupid hirobo tail rotor issues) so i can't wait for the aurora to get released as i'll be in line for two!
ClayK
10-25-2007, 10:51 AM
Slipping "deadlines" whether they are perceived or self-imposed is the nature of this business. Typically, no explanation is given. I can't think of any manufacturer lately that justified their reason for any delays. Let's look them over shall we?
Aurora (obviously since we have this thread)
MA Razor (electric, it took a while for this one to come to market)
MA Raxor (nitro, finally on market)
Synergy n9 (I thought this was an imaginary helicopter for a long time as well)
Futaba FASST modules (Aug, no.... Sept, no.... End of Oct?, no.... Maybe the end of Dec)
Spektrum modules (took these awhile after they were announced)
XPS modules/receivers (don't even get me started on this one, they eventually did come to market, but way after the time they said they would)
XPS telemetry (still not out)
I could go on, there are countless examples either in models, motors, electronics or anything else you can think of in this hobby. Truth is, manufacturers don't tell the consumer anything because they don't have to. Consumers will buy it when it comes out regardless. Avant really isn't the "only" one that is in this position and they certainly won't be the last.
john m
10-29-2007, 04:26 AM
Another thing to note:
Augusto didn't want anything to come to press. CAD drawings were "leaked" and the buzz was on. Unfortunately, that buzz and rumour mongerers have spun this up to critical mass.
So any "delays" to consumer are really non-existent since there shouldn't have been a "release date" as we perceive it.
ClayK If it was all "leaked" iIdon't believe we would have the Hype and hysteria that we see now.
However
May 8th Avant RC previews the Aurora on multiple forums. "Coming soon" at 3D masters 2006 I was told "in a few weeks" (by the reseller who invested into Avant RC) and put down a deposit a few weeks later. Well we can all read the history..... 1 and 1/3 years later.
the difference from the delayed items listed above is... money.... this was not really invested, exchanged, or held for such an extended period of time for the items above. We could all moan about the items above and when items where ready we could then just go buy one.
I have since moved on to several other manufacturers, one of which was delivered on time, exactly one month after going to press and launch at 3D masters, yet service like this is never mentioned or deemed biased if ever reported. The kit actually arrived at my house the day they said business was starting. I have since then donated this machine to the AHA to try raise funds for the UK F3C team. I got tired of all the politics and have decided to move on to other interests.
I believe there are two sides to be told here...(my opinion)
*Some who have invested through deposits and stocking up on parts but tired of waiting, vent their frustration on-line (some uncalled for) and then get abuse by some people like below.
*Others that haven't invested to date, yet really like the machine, and are tired of the people above bashing it and are perfectly happy waiting for it.
If this was all "leaked" then we would be in a totally different situation today. Augusto wouldent have to post updates or even provide a date. he could then honeslty use the line "kit will be released when ready and only ready." Resellers would have to wait and therefore not take deposits (The start of most of this mess). and Avant RC would not need to speculate or bash other manufacturers either.
We all know this heli will be superb ofor 3D once released!
WillJames
10-29-2007, 05:31 AM
How do you know Augusto is happy about retailers taking deposits?
Augusto owns Avant R/C not the retail stores who took deposits. How this very elementary fact is being blurred I don't understand.
I am very happy to wait for the Aurora-E or whatever it will be called. Once you fly a 90 E machine, it is hard to be 100% happy with the 50 size E helis.....
Also, I heard through the grape vine that Aurora parts had a first shipment on Friday and more today. Unverified, but if true, not much longer to wait. :)
invertmast
10-29-2007, 10:30 AM
How do you know Augusto is happy about retailers taking deposits?
Augusto owns Avant R/C not the retail stores who took deposits. How this very elementary fact is being blurred I don't understand.
I am very happy to wait for the Aurora-E or whatever it will be called. Once you fly a 90 E machine, it is hard to be 100% happy with the 50 size E helis.....
Also, I heard through the grape vine that Aurora parts had a first shipment on Friday and more today. Unverified, but if true, not much longer to wait. :)
If thats true, i guess i need to start saving my pennies for my 2 aurora's :)
john m
10-29-2007, 11:25 AM
How do you know Augusto is happy about retailers taking deposits?
Valid point.
However we also forget that some of these resellers also had a heavy part of the financial backing to the development and manufacturing of this heli. They should have been told at that time to hold back on deposits due to xyz.
After speaking to Augusto and resellers at 3D masters 2006 I was under the impression it was a few weeks/month or two away. I believe the resellers may have thought the same, as the last update I had from them 9 months ago was "they where getting a bit frustrated, and where hopefully going to find out that week". (Around Jan 2007) at the end of the day its all $$$$$£££££ related.
Anyway, It all looks like it is about to happen, Great news for people that are still waiting.
john m
11-22-2007, 04:50 PM
Folks my apologies as I know this is under an incorrect thread.
Just so you all realise I was not trying to "stir" with the above posts. Please see photo (borrowed from another forum that I am proudly no longer associated with)
Please read small print at bottom of photo. "Anticipated in August". This Aurora Photo is from 2006,
Apologies for some of my posts as I know I can sound rather direct at times. All my "opinions" are based on what little facts I know. And I would rather have more facts then opinions.
On a side note, good news that the parts are now out. Lets see how the parts prices compare in £ format here in the UK?
As mentioned before going to be superb 3D heli!