Belt vs Torque Tube for AP

[vrwired]

OK,
From user experiences, can anyone tell me why one would be better than the other for AP use...
I think you have seen my posts regarding which gasser to get for AP.

Well.. I have it narrowed down to the Bergen Intrepid EB, JR GSR 260, and the Predator Condor..

The GSR has a belt, the predator has a torque tube.. I am not yet sure what the Bergan has...

Why would I want one or the other?

I have a bad taste in my mouth regarding the torque tube mechanics because I had a bad time with an old MS Composit Hornet micro heli... nuthin but a pain in the arse... but maybe things are different with these bigger birds... I know the predator does have a metal geared tail with their torque tube.. seems a little more industrial.

Something about a belt drive just seems so much easier and bullet proof... tell me why I may be wrong!

Any input guys? (and gals) heh..
Thanks

[MarkWebber]

Bergen's got a TT, also. I prefer it, myself. Set it and forget it, basically. I haven't had to do anything with my TT tail drive. Plenty of belt maintainence, however.:roll:

[bullaculla]

Yep, I agree with Mark.
I had a belt break in flight with the 450 night flyer. Not fun. :bomb:
Also, there is a static discharge issue from the belt rubbing the inside of the boom that can cause interference. I dont have any experience with that tho. :dontknow
I run a belt on my play 600, but the TT on my 600 helicam. Its more efficient, less drag, and less maintenance. but it does sound a little noisier.
:)

[cbergen]

The Intrepid Gas EB is TT, and includes this gearbox.

http://69.65.123.251/~bergenrc/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51

[vrwired]

Good Info...
I am agreeing now that the TT is the way to go for AP... the main reason is BELT FAILURE!

I have a "play" Trex 600E with a belt.. and now may actually upgrade to the torque tube...
Crashing my play 600 because of a belt failure is one thing, but augering in a $5000+ AP setup because of a belt failure would be a shame especially when it could be avoided with a TT....

I am sold on the TT.... So, I think that just ruled out buying a JR GSR with belt drive! hmmm... Belts do snap.. it is a fact... and I don't want one snapping on me...

Wow... glad I looked into this...

Thanks guys..

[ErichF]

If you say so.

I have been flying belt tailed X-Specs in 3D and FAI competition and never had a belt fail or even wear out. Belts break because they aren't adjusted properly, or are damaged in crash.

While you're on the paranoia kick, gears strip out on tube drives, too ya know. Again, usually because they aren't adjusted right.

Pick the aircraft that suits your needs, and don't worry about what makes the tail spin.

[Wbird]

I have to agree with Erich on this one. I prefer belts after watching a friend with a Raptor 60 when the tail rotor hit a bit of tall grass. Nearly had a major incident as the tail kicked out sideways instantly before the skids touched. I didn't realize that the gears were that fragile before seeing that. Then again maybe they weren't adjusted right.

IMHO I still prefer belts. I have had many incidents with taking off and landing in grass and never an incident with both of my 600's. Personally I would rather have a belt slip and still have control on the way down than to have a gear failure and have nothing.

Another note. For AP there is enough issues with vibration and a belt is not going to transfer or create any vibration compared to another couple of sets of gears banging each other.

[Tabbytabb]

Belts win hands down IMO when it comes to reliability. I have had raptor 50 belts that I couldnt break no matter how hard I tried :)


Tabb

[vrwired]

ErichF - paranoia kick? I wouldnt call worrying about 5000 dollars worth of flying AP equipment a paranoia kick! If that makes me paranoid than so be it.. Seems like your taking the whole thing personally... maybe its just me.. also you say "Belts break because they aren't adjusted properly" that is still a problem to me.. it is still a point of failure, I may indeed incorrectly adjust my belt for some strange reason... Then my belt could fail.

Also, why in most heli setups do they call the install of a TT an UPGRADE?

I do appreciate the posts regarding the Belt VS TT...
I do realize gears can fail.. one thing though the gears on the predator are metal and would be harder to strip)... I think they are plastic on the Intrepid... the GSR has a belt...

If TT is so bad, than why would popular AP ships use the TT? like the Intrepid? I would think Chris Bergen would have done his homework and chosen the best tail technology.

All in all, I agree.. the TT is touchy if you tap the tail..hard landing or what not.. but.. I would especially think the metal gears on the Predator are pretty tough..

The belts change tension with use.. and need to be adjusted more than I would think the TT.. leaving POSSIBLY more room for error and a mishap to creep into my tail sytem and show up...

I myself have never had a belt break on my TREX450 or TREX600... just missing teeth...

It is a tough decision really.... are there upgrade metal gears for the Intrepid?


hmmmmmmmm

[ErichF]

I'm not taking anything personally, but you apparently did :P

My $5000 Caliber 90 contest bird uses a belt drive, and I'm not worried about it one bit.
The $100,000 R-Max uses a belt drive.

I never said either was better than the other. My point was that you can "what if" the torque tube drive just as much as belt drive. Frankly, for low stress flying like AP, you are much more likely to have a servo or other electrical failure than a tail failure of either type of drive system.

TT drive systems are marketed as an Upgrade only because of marketing. Some people like the lower drag of a TT for aerbatic autos. Personally, I don't see the excess drag of a belt, mostly because I don't have the belt tightened down so hard as to cause drag.

[cbergen]

There are no metal tail gear upgrades for the Intrepid EB, If you strip the gears out of THAT tail, you probably have other issues besides!!

I think the point here is that all options have pro's and con's, TT have less drag, but in some cases the gears are fragile, Belts stretch over time requiring proper tension adjustmnets, but are more forgiving in the "drag the tail in the dirt" department.


Either option will work and have proven track records. I would NOT totally discount any heli on this particular point.

There are more important considerations to be had. Such as, will your supplier end up in jail!! :):)

[okiefarmr]

I recently converted my Vario Trainer to a belt drive from AirStar International. The boom has been increased to a 25.4 mm diameter boom. I'm thinking this will assist in eliminating the static charge created by 21 and 22mm stock booms.

I had the direct drive tail on there first until my gears stripped out. They were plastic and got all chewed up. For the price I would of paid to replace everything original I was able to swap to the belt drive and larger boom for less money.

For all you Vario owners check out www.airstarintl.com

[vrwired]

Well.. you immediately felt the need to defend "the belt" and in the same breath called me paranoid. So, yes that is personal.

By saying "If you say so" you are starting your post full of attitude instead of just disussing it like the rest of us.

I am glad to see thay you are not worried about your $5000 bird, but I think you would find that most people do and should have a healty amount of fear over letting that much money drop out of the sky...

You must have nerves of steel!... wow...impessed I am..

[ErichF]

I really don't understand your attitude, man. I was acknowledging your opinion, and adding mine.

Give it a rest, for Pete's sakes. Surely you got other things to worry about. You are too wrapped around the axle about this.

For the THIRD time for the reading impaired, I didn't defend nor endorse any system. I merely pointed out that either system can fail, and the below diatribe sure sounds like something from Chicken Little, if you ask me.

I give up, man. :arggg:

And you're right, I don't worry about my birds falling out of the sky. I respect the fact that anything could happen, but worrying about it will only make one go crazy, or not fly at all. I keep my equipment adjusted and in good repair. Beyond that, worrying doesn't do a darn thing to keep these things airborne.

Like I said before, get the aircraft that suits your needs, and don't worry about what makes the tail turn.

PS, just noticed you're from Boulder...contrary to local belief there, not everyone is out to get you and bring you down.

Good Info...
I am agreeing now that the TT is the way to go for AP... the main reason is BELT FAILURE!

I have a "play" Trex 600E with a belt.. and now may actually upgrade to the torque tube...
Crashing my play 600 because of a belt failure is one thing, but augering in a $5000+ AP setup because of a belt failure would be a shame especially when it could be avoided with a TT....

I am sold on the TT.... So, I think that just ruled out buying a JR GSR with belt drive! hmmm... Belts do snap.. it is a fact... and I don't want one snapping on me...

Wow... glad I looked into this...

Thanks guys..

[vrwired]

funny you say I have an attitude and I am reading impaired and a chciken, you seem to have a lot to say about me all the time thinking I shouldn't take things personally.. and now you are startin in on Boulder too?

Whatever...

your boring me.

I just want to know about the differences with the torque tube and belt from people with experiences...

and so what.. I worry about my heli... get over it...