ION initial flight test and 401

[buster1]

Hi Guys, was wondering if one of you ION experts can help me with a question -

I went out today to flight test my new ION - got heli. in a hover and tail started glitching in pretty large motions:

Landed and lowered the gain to low setting and it did it again.

I am using the 401 gyro with 9254 - I have heard somewhat from a couple of people that the 401 may not be the best due to its shielding and that the 502 or 601 may be the way to go with this heli.

FYI, gain was set lower after the glitching occured and the I am using good gyro tape and gyro was on firm.

Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated before I go buy the new gyro.

Thank you,
Jeff H.

[Laurens]

Do you have a PCM Rx?

[Russ McC]

Hi Jeff,

If you do get a new gyro get the 601! I am a Futaba rep but will tell you I am not found of the 401, with that said I can’t imagine it not working on the Ion, I can’t say I’ve seen a 401 on an Ion but I have seen them on all manner of smaller E-helis with no problems. It would seem that if there is no defect in the gyro/servo or binding that you must have overlooked something on the setup. One other note, I had problems in the past using 3M foam tape with a 601 sensor, the tail would twitch but not as you described. I don’t believe it had any thing to do with it being to firm or soft but I think it was an RF thing and the different tape compound was aiding in the RF interference transmition to the sensor but cant say for sure.

[Hotshot Charlie]

Please take this for what it's worth.....

I have read somewhere that they were using a piece of metal under the 401's to isolate it from electrical noise. They were doing something like, two sided tape then metal plate then your foam tape then 401 on top of that. It seems they were doing this on a large size electric heli, but can't remember which.

Again, this is not first hand knowledge, only a "weak" recount of something I read and can't remember where I read it.

[Russ McC]

The metal plate is standard on the 601 just as you described and it does help. I have never used the 401 so I don’t know about it. You could give it a try.

[Hotshot Charlie]

Hey Russ,

I have never used anything but a 401... :wink: But I never have used one on a large electric. I did use a 401 on my Shogun, but that was short lived because I got tired of fooling around with tail gears.

Anyway, Jimmy Wooten used a 401 on his electric predator.... I think??? It might have been a 601, at any rate, he has a lot of electric experience, he might can shed some light on this.

[buster1]

Thanks guys, appreciate your insight,

Russ, the tail twitch is quick and an inch or two in one direction. There is no glitching in the cyclic or throttle response, so I assume its the gyro, being the 9254 is pretty new.

Regarding tape, I am using a white foam tape from a JR gyro - maybe this is the problem, per your experience.

The connections in receiver and rudder to gyro seems good - I may either try different tape with the metal plate or just bite the bullet for the sake of the nice ION and get a 601.

Thanks guys - appreciate your insight and time to respond,
Jeff

for the short while I flew it - about 60 seconds in the air experiencing the problem - it was my first flight with ION or electric helicopter - pretty cool stuff to see that spool up and lift off. What a difference from glow. Can't wait to fix problem and start 3d-ing a bit.

[Russ McC]

Ok Jeff,

This is very similar to what I experienced, I did not have any Futaba tape so I used some very thick spongy foam tape I had and it worked. Maybe cut out a thin metal plate about 1-1/4” square and tape it to the chopper with your JR or 3M tape then use CSM gyro tape or something like that to secure the gyro to the plate. You would not use such soft tape on a glow model but on the Ion it is fine.

[buster1]

Thanks Russ, I will give that a try - so, what you are saying is that the tape I am using is not insulating the gyro and its getting hit in some way with Juice,

I will take your advice because its seems similar to your situation and see if that resolves the problem, if not I will get a new unit.

Thanks Russ - appreciate your time and advice.
Jeff

[Russ McC]

so, what you are saying is that the tape I am using is not insulating the gyro and its getting hit in some way with Juice,

Maybe not juice but RF yes. Can't confirm this, good luck.

[buster1]

Russ, I will let you know how it goes when I put the metal plate under the gyro, but also ordered the 601 because I do fly mostly 3D and should just get it.

Have you tried the new Pro-Lites? If so, what do you think??

[Russ McC]

I just got them and have five cycles on them, there very good.

[buster1]

How many minutes are you flying with the new pro-lites,
where is the best place to buy them??

Thanks,
Jeff

[Russ McC]

I am flying ten minuets and using 5600 to 6500 mah depending on how I fly and witch machine I am flying, one Hacker and one Actro 32-3. I got mine direct from Min Air but I don’t know what the street price is or the best place to get them is, sorry.

[buster1]

Russ, I had another question regarding my gyro problem - I am running a whip antenna (Deans), which is positioned very close to the gyro on the heli.

Could this be a problem - I don't know if you guys are running these type of antenna's or not.

What do you think?
Jeff

[Russ McC]

Hi Jeff,

I have never used anything but the stock antenna that comes with the receiver, it’s free and works. I don’t know how a Deans could affect any thing but you never know.

[OMCtechUSN]

I run a 401 on my x400 and i've been having a problem with the tail, where the servo will slowly move all the way to one side when i plug the battery in, with the transmitter gyro switch set to heading hold mode. The gyro seems to be acting like it initialized when the heli was moving, when it is actually sitting there still. The gyro worked fine after taking the heli apart, and also worked fine in another heli. Anyone know what could cause this wierd problem? Thanks.

[misskimo]

thats normal for the gyro to drift to one side , its waiting for any movement to happen , wont hurt a thing , to me that letting me know that Im in hH mode

[ChrisS]

In my testing of the Ion's, I have had 2 401's that would not work as supplied. The metal plate that comes with the 601 will usually solve the problem. Also, if you work in the electronics industry, specifically something to do with radio work that involves any kind of shielding concerns, you have probably heard of a material called "Mu metal". I acquired some of this stuff a while back for an errant 401 I had and it seemed to do the job as well.

I personally like the 401 for this heli as it is small, light weight, and easy to install...i.e. there is no amp box to mount. And it works great to boot.

While I have not specifically messed around with short whip antenni on the Ion, I had it proven to me years ago that a full length of wire run out the bottom, across the skids and up a boom support was by far a superior method. Short whips can get into the RF "shadow" created on the far side of a graphite frame set and problems can arise.

FWIW

Chris

[Ed]

I had a similar tail jerk develope in one of my Ions, and I run 401s in all three Ions that I have. I replaced everything electronic and didn't get rid of the jerk until I replaced the 77-0 with another 77-0. Was flying great for a while with the first 77-0 and after about the third flight the jerk started. Soon it was jerking everytime I took it up. Again, took replacing the controller to get rid of it. Sent it back to Hacker and haven't heard yet.....been busy with Hurricane Dennis here in Pensacola. Hope this might help.
Ed

[lowandslow]

I'm running the 401, stock location on the ION, Futaba double sided tape with a whip right next to it. No problems at all.