Logo 5003D - which electronics, blades and so on?..

[Mathias]

Look at post eight on this side. Not very uplifting. http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=46471&highlight=BLS451

Should I go for the Align 440mm flybar for more response? I see that zguy is recomending it...

[BruceW]

From what I read, VegasBob doesn't know what he is talking about. His whole argument was to have matching servos for cyclic and throttle - he got wrong information.

I think the BLS251 might be fairly good for the tail. Last night I was reading the RCHelimag review on the Logo 500 3D and noticed they used the Spartan DS760 with a BLS251 and said it had great performance.

[Mathias]

OK.
Can the Jazz 80-6-18 handle bigger batteries than the 55-10-32? Can't find much information on them...

The 80-6-18 is cheaper than the 55-10-32...

[th3tick]

OK.
Can the Jazz 80-6-18 handle bigger batteries than the 55-10-32? Can't find much information on them...

The 80-6-18 is cheaper than the 55-10-32...

The 80-6-18 is max 6S LiPo, whereas the 55-10-32 is max 10S, so if by "bigger" you mean "higher voltage", then the answer is YES. Although it's not intended as meaning that, the middle number matches the max "S" for LiPos.

John

[Mathias]

OK, thank you.

I am still not sure which servos I'll go for. I have the JR8717's and the 8900 on my list now, but the new brushless servos from Futaba didn't make it easier. The JR8717 servos are a bit quicker. Will the new Futaba servos work with a L600? If I once in the future upgrade the 500 to a 600...

[Ticidytoc]

If torque is similar then a .01/sec difference will be hard to feel. A .03 speed increase along with torque is appreciable. .06 increase is noticeable on the bench, imagine the difference in flight.

[Mathias]

So? BLS4451 or JR8717?

[BruceW]

I started with looking at the JR8717, then looked at the 9452, and now leaning towards the BLS451 (thanks zguy). Here are the specs (just looking at 6V).

JR8717 - 196 oz-in & 0.07 sec/60deg
BLS451 - 147 oz-in & 0.10 sec/60deg
S9452 - 120 oz-in & 0.10 sec/deg

Originally I figured the speed and torque of the 8717 was important but read that they can pull 3.5A each. That is enough to blow a BEC (I will not run a separate rx battery) as some reports indicate and is overkill for the Logo 500. They are also heavier than the Futaba servos. There were also reports about quality issues with the gears but I'm sure the dealer will replace them if thats the case.

The claim is that a brushless servo will draw the same power as a digital and run cooler and longer. I figure that the BLS451 has enough torque to go to a 600 in the future if needed and I'll bet it could perform in a crack maneuver (see previous post about Bert Kammerer using them in his T600N). There just don't seem to be too many field reviews of the BLS451 but I think I will go with them and a BLS251 or 8900G on the tail (most likely a BLS251 just to keep it Futaba even though I have a JR radio).

At this stage, I'm not buying a servo because it can 'crack'. I just want something that is fast enough and will not slow down when loaded. I know its still bleeding edge to go with the BLS451 but early reports seem to be good - and they should be a good conversation piece when showing them off to your friends.:YeaBaby:

[Mathias]

OK, the 8717 servos are faster than the BLS451, but if I can't run the 8717 servos on BEC because of high Amp draw I have only the 451's left... The 8717's are pretty much faster... Is it right that you can run the 451's at 7V and get a speed at 0,06sec? But how can you run 7V with a BEC? Is there any BEC's that supports 7V?

What about tail servo? Is the new BLS251 better than 8900G?

What are the best servos for a L600?

[BruceW]

I think a 2S lipo is being plugged directly into the rx for power to get 7+ volts. There might be a regulator that goes in between but I'm not sure.

Do you really need that extra 0.03 sec savings? If you've ever seen Bert Kammerer fly, he has some really fast reflex times and the BLS451 seem to be good enough for him. Previously he flew 9451 I think. Remember that the specified servo time period is to make a complete sweep of 60deg. Savings in time for small movements of 10-20deg will be negligible between the two servos.

I'm starting to think that the 'crack' maneuvers were designed as a marketing tool to sell fast servos.:YeaBaby:

[Mathias]

Yes, I have seen Bert Kammerer Flying. He is freakin awesome!

Well, I think I'll go for the 451's. "I can't be that bad"... :D :smokin:

What about tail servo?

[Eyon]

crack maneuvers just cant be done with slow servos, but the 8717s are just the best servos i have ever used. Crack chaos all the way!

[BruceW]

Ian, are you saying the BLS451 can't perform a 'crack' maneuver with 0.03 sec difference over the full range of 60deg?

When doing a crack, I'll bet the servos are only swinging about 30-40 degrees which would only be about 0.01-0.02 sec difference which should not be an issue. I'm betting that not everybody is aiming to do a crack roll and in a year it'll be old.

[Foamy Love]

I'm betting that not everybody is aiming to do a crack roll and in a year it'll be old.

Ditto. They are really not that hard to master, and I'm already tired of doing them.

[BruceW]

What about tail servo?

I think the 8900G is still the hot servo but its a toss up between going with it and the BLS251. It just comes down to personal preference if you want to keep it all Futaba or JR or don't mind mixing it up. I'll probably go with the BLS251 just to keep the servos Futaba but thats just a personal thing.

The specs are close between the two but they both must be run at 5V instead of 6V. I think they are the same weight.

BLS251 ( 47 oz-in / 0.06 sec for 60 deg )
JR8900G ( 48 oz-in / 0.05 sec for 60 deg )

[Mathias]

But how can you use the JR8717 without RX battery? If they draw 3,5A each it wouldn't be safe, but still I see that many people are using them with a separately BEC... I am going to run a 6V 5A Western Robotics...

[Eyon]

they rarely draw that much. i run 3 of them and the 9256 on the tail through a Duralite 7A reg. 1500mah pack works about 6 flights. Works to be about 250mAh a flight, in 5 minutes thats a total of 3A average. sometimes less, sometimes more!

[Mathias]

So I can use them with the 5A BEC?

[Eyon]

So I can use them with the 5A BEC?

Yeah, but keep an eye on the heat, keep it in some airflow too. My Duralite is strapped to the side of the frames near the UC, so its getting plenty of air. I take it it's 5A cost with bursts? What brand?

[Mathias]

It is the Western Robotics 5/6V 5A BEC.

http://www.readyheli.com/Western_Robotics_Hercules_5amp_5_AMP_Battery_Elimi _p/wrl-hbechc.htm

[Mathias]

OK, now my list is ready... I think...

Spartan DS760 Adaptive Heading Hold Gyro.

JR DS8900G Ultra-Speed Digital Gyro Servo 4.8V.

Kontronik Jazz 80-6-18 ESC.

K10333A 5.1V Align Step-Down Voltage Regulator.

SPMAR6200 Spektrum AR6200 DSM2 Microlite 6Channel Rx, Ultralite Spectrum.

DS8717 Ultra Speed Cyclic Servo x3.

Western Robotics Hercules 5amp 5 AMP Battery Eliminator Circuit HC.

FlightPower Flight Power Premium EVO 30C 4500 mAh 6S1P 22.2v Battery.

Western Robotics Spektrum Lipo Battery Monitor.

H60012T Flybar Rod 440mm for T-Rex 600 (bought).

Z-Power Motor 1150kV.

MIK4215 - Pinion Herringbone, 15T 0.7Mod (ordered).

MIK4216 - Pinion Herringbone, 16T 0.7Mod (ordered).

MIK3092 - Damper Set (Extra Hard) (ordered).

RotorTech 560mm Symmetrical Carbon Fiber Main Blades (ordered).

K&B Dream Designs Tail Blades KBD4006 Neon Orange HP .30-.50 Size (84mm): $8,50 (ordered).

Mikado Logo 500 3D (ordered).

Does it look okay? Can't wait to start the build. :D

[Eyon]

looks spot on.:smokin:

I like the idea about the t-rex flybar, i might get the extra long one, make the cyclic mega sharp.

Ian

[BruceW]

Mathias, looks like you choose all the components for a hot setup. Just got my Futaba BLS251 tail servo but will order cyclic servos later. Like you, I'm going for the Jazz 80 (thanks Ian for the push.:wink:) and will order it soon as well.

FYI - I finished the build last night and will update my build thread shortly.

[Mathias]

Which throttle curve do you guys recommend for use in normal mode (guess I'm not will be using governor in normal mode)?

Setup:

Z-Power 1150kV.
Kontronik Jazz 80-6-18.
16T pinion.
85% flat in idle 1 and 2.

Hopefully that will give 2350HS?

[BruceW]

Mine is set to 0, 37.5, 75, 75, 75 with -5/+10 pitch and idle 1 (flat 80%) = 2250 (+/-10 pitch), idle 2 (flat 87%) = ~2320 (+/-12 pitch) with a 15T @ 1100KV. With a 16T, you might want to bring your TC down some since you'll be running fairly hot at 85%. I'm betting 80% will get you 2350+.