View Full Version : Disintegrating pinion
Mercuriell
11-03-2007, 02:15 AM
After my third FF thought I'd check to see how the main gear was going (stripped on 1st FF) - somewhat amazed to see the double bevels of the herring bone pinion going their separate ways :shock: - Anyone any experience or thoughts on this ? The pinion has a single set screw which I Loctited in place on a flat on the ZPower shaft - all mounting bolts for the motor and set screw are firm - I don't Loctitie pinions onto the shaft (but may consider this in future!)
OICU812
11-03-2007, 02:33 AM
It is the fact that the Zpower motor actually moves vertically. In order to avoid this use a 450 rex collar under the pinion, this keeps any vertical movement from happening. There are pins in the pinion as you noticed, take it off, put red loctite in between the two halves, press it back together, you'll be golden. Make sure to clean the inner bore of course and teeth so not to have the red everywhere, lol.
Mercuriell
11-03-2007, 02:44 AM
Thanks for the quick response Shaun :thumbup:- I noticed the vertical play in the Z Power shaft as I was taking it off - I put the pinion back togerther as per your recommendation 'cept used regular Araldite - bit worried about putting a collet on the shaft without a thrust bearing or washer - but we'll see how she goes !
OICU812
11-03-2007, 03:20 AM
No worries the 450 collar will work, the forces are not like that where a thrust would be needed. Simply file down the ridge side a mm or so, nice and even and you'll be ok for fit, I did it so I do know, there will be no harm to the motor or bottom bearing either.
buster1
11-03-2007, 04:19 AM
I am using the Z30-1110 on my 5003D - shawn, are you saying I should now put a collar on the shaft of this motor and this is the first time I am hearing to take out any pins in the pinion and lock-tight,
More new stuff!!
OICU812
11-03-2007, 04:33 AM
On the 6S lower wattage motors like the Z30A etc I do not think there is a problem, it seems to be more around the big ones. Keep an eye on it but I have not heard about it from anyone else with the 30 series. I also think there may have been a few pinions out there where they may not have had enough 609 or 680 on the pins to keep them firmly together, which in all honesty could be more of what this is about.... I do know that the Z50 and up do have more vertical pull though and it makes sense to keep it down, my 1150 on my 5003D pulled up and I saw this very thing, where as the 30 was fine. I did do the loctitie thing and no issue since at all with that particular one. How are you liking your heli buster? Any problems just shoot me a call if you ever need be, you know my number, cheers.
Finless
11-03-2007, 12:22 PM
Nice tip! I am going to have to remember this one for sure.
One point that would seem right is the 450 mast collar has a ridge on one side and it should go on so that ridge is against the inner race of the motor bearing.
Bob
buster1
11-03-2007, 05:31 PM
Shawn, I haven't had a chance to explore the full capabilities of it yet - I have been so busy - but I am hoping to wring it out this week for sure - will report back - maybe a video or two if I can get the time,
Thanks for your help,
Jeff
Mercuriell
11-04-2007, 02:59 AM
Put two packs through tonight and the Araldited pinion seems to holding up and no noticeable power difference with the collar on the shaft.
ozace
11-04-2007, 03:04 AM
Interesting happening there John. IN the previous flights did you notice any heat buildup in the pinion ? I wonder if this could be casued by missalignment between pinion and main. I noticed on my 500 that there is a very small sweetspot for mesh, .5mm either way and things arent so happy.
Mercuriell
11-04-2007, 03:43 AM
Interesting happening there John. IN the previous flights did you notice any heat buildup in the pinion ? I wonder if this could be casued by missalignment between pinion and main. I noticed on my 500 that there is a very small sweetspot for mesh, .5mm either way and things arent so happy.
It ran warm but not hot - I had silicone sprayed it as per Mr Mel. There was NO sign of any adhesive between the gears when it separated so maybe it was a Fri pm batch or they were being stingy on the glue !
Just posted an FDR with a temp probe on the Z50-800 - very impressed it stayed on 44°C despite a muggy hot arvo - I like this motor !!!! and at just over 1/3 price of a Neu equivalent certainly worth looking into - time will tell how the collet trick works but Shaun obviously had good experience with this.
After stripping my main gear I've set the gear as per manual ie no backlash but no pressure sideways either - quite easy to do visually.
ozace
11-04-2007, 04:10 PM
i am glad its now working for you. I have used a collar on my Z-30 in the L500 due to all the initial talk of gear stripping due to these motors. I also love the Z's , for the power we get compared to the price they cost they are unbeatable. It is bothersom that these machines cant cope with these motors in their stock form but i believe its worth a little mucking about to make them work due to the price.
As for the pinion, i would have sent it back and demanded a replacement, at $20 a pop they should be unbreakable.
Flybar-less
11-04-2007, 07:41 PM
Using the 2134 counerbearing is also another way to capture the pinion.
LITHIUMSTATIC
11-04-2007, 11:09 PM
Using the 2134 counerbearing is also another way to capture the pinion.
Does this keep the pinion from seperating?
Flybar-less
11-05-2007, 01:04 AM
Yes, since it is can be shimmed against the lower (non set screw) side of the pinion. It comes with the shims.
Mercuriell
11-08-2007, 03:29 AM
Since the pinion separated and I epoxied it back together again and put the collar on the shaft had 3 nice uneventful flights - went out today to try the new Air Thunder 10S 5000mAh - didn't get that far - on the first pack was doing some nice mild aerobatics when the heli lost power and the main gear came a tumblin' down - few seconds later so did the heli from about 100ft - anyway she autos beautifully - only damage was a sheared nylon M3 bolt holding the gear onto the frame.
Retrieved the main gear which had one bevel stripped and noticed missing lower half of the pinion. Seemed the pinion had separated leaving just the one bevel which soon stripped the gear and pushed it and the retaining circlip off the main shaft.
Guess the message is that the end shaft bearing add on is a must - the motor mounting was firm and there was no end play at all in the shaft due to the collar.
That's weird, I'm using no counter bearing with my neu 1915-1y/15 tooth pinion and have had no issues like that yet.
Just a bad pinion maybe ?
OICU812
11-09-2007, 03:51 AM
Jeeeez well all I can say is I have to think along the lines of what Nathan is saying. The one that I had come down abit surely did not do that! I would send that into Ralph at Mikado for sure or Aeromodel to be examined and for a replacement. Meanwhile in regards to this I emailed Ralph as well to indicate this so they may look into the process of these pinions etc.
Mercuriell
11-09-2007, 04:48 AM
Jeeeez well all I can say is I have to think along the lines of what Nathan is saying. The one that I had come down abit surely did not do that! I would send that into Ralph at Mikado for sure or Aeromodel to be examined and for a replacement. Meanwhile in regards to this I emailed Ralph as well to indicate this so they may look into the process of these pinions etc.
Just a rogue part !!! Anyway had a 14t spare and that looks probably better suited to the Z50 giving an HS of 2200 at 85% throttle in the back yard :shock: so looking forward to having a fly with that tomorrow - the heli's really encouraging me to do closer in stuff getting towards 3D so I've ordered a L5003D to make use of the TRE 600s 6S packs which are starting to gather dust :wink:
OICU812
11-09-2007, 01:31 PM
Quick update. In talking with some people from Mikado this pinion situation is very isolated, in fact sounds like me and you are only ones to report this happening. That is the good news but bad news is that it was us to experience it, lol. At any rate there is certainly no need for any alarm, but as always for anyone please keep an eye on your key components and do indeed report if you see anything like this in order to improve the product line.
And Mercuriell, getting a 500 now? You are "officially" addicted now to the Logos, lol.:rolling
Flybar-less
11-10-2007, 10:31 PM
Mine seperated today as well. Did I spell mine correctly?
The amount of seperation was about .0010 inches. This equals the difference between the inner part and outer part of the pinion end. The couterbearing prevented it from further seperation. A special shoulder washer would have completely prevented the seperation. But the radial counterbearing is really not designed for thrust.
LITHIUMSTATIC
11-11-2007, 03:04 AM
:thinking Maybe I should go ahead and mod this part before I ever maiden. Got any pics?
Ticidytoc
11-11-2007, 04:14 AM
Things are holding up just fine here.:thumbup:
I wonder if a spot weld from a Tig would put this to rest?
Things are holding up just fine here.:thumbup:
I wonder if a spot weld from a Tig would put this to rest?
Now there's an idea, I'm plugging in the tig right now !
LITHIUMSTATIC
11-11-2007, 11:19 AM
Things are holding up just fine here.:thumbup:
I wonder if a spot weld from a Tig would put this to rest?:shock:
Now there's an idea, I'm plugging in the tig right now !:shock: