Helifreak Exclusive - Pic's of Trex500 in USA!

[heirmeistr]

Thanks Kevin,
About the servos, instead of the Hitec 5245MG, I thought I had heard using Hitec 5082MG? Am I mistaken? Which would be preferable? Do you want speed or torque?
Thanks

[heirmeistr]

Zsultan,
On Andys prototype, I believe he had 3 9650s for the cyclics and a S9257 for the tail.

[fireup]

Thanks Kevin,
About the servos, instead of the Hitec 5245MG, I thought I had heard using Hitec 5082MG? Am I mistaken? Which would be preferable? Do you want speed or torque?
Thanks

Well, after looking at the spec. of the 5245MG, it may be a little big compared to the S9650 (which the frame looks like it fit perfectly in it, but I don't like it because it has plastic gears). The 5082MG are smaller, has only one mounting hole per side and are not out in the market yet(I don't think). You can probably make it fit but need to drill the frame. So for Hitec, you may have to go with HS81MG or HS5082MG(when available) an drill out mounting holes.

[lowflyer101]

wow 7mins of mild 3d with 2 packs of trex450 lipo, the heli is the next best thing :) . the 9650 cyclic servos links up in the pic look weirdo .

[brovic777]

wow 7mins of mild 3d with 2 packs of trex450 lipo, the heli is the next best thing :) . the 9650 cyclic servos links up in the pic look weirdo .

Yea, thats pretty good huh. Almost as good as the 10 minutes of flying Nitro's.

[aballen]

yeah it really did not look like the servos in the 500 got a straight shot at the cyclic links.

pull them in a hole or 3 and you might get a straight shot, but then you wont get as much travel. Which is probably why they are where they are.

[rotary65]

What I don't get is the long flight times on the 500 as compared to the 450. Using the Darkhorse calculator (http://dhrc.rchomepage.com/calc.htm):

Trex 450: AUW 750g, ~700mm rotor, disc loading of 1.95 kg/m^2.
Trex 500: AUW 1600g, ~950mm rotor, disc loading of 2.26 kg/m^2.
Trex 600: AUW 3050g, ~1350mm rotor, disc loading of 2.13 kg/m^2.

The specs are still preliminary (outright guesses for some) for the 500.

If the disc loading is higher for the 500 and the head speed is the about the same (2700 on the 450, 2600 on the 500 - tip speed is higher on the 500), then how can the flight times be so different (4.5 min for the 450, 7-8 minutes for the 500)? Are the power systems that different in their efficiency (3S vs. 6S)?

[fireup]

When you're running higher voltage, your system is more efficient because you're not drawing as much amps and things don't get as hot. Andy said it's drawing avg. about 18amps. That's not much more than a Trex450 is drawing, so I can see why it can get 7min.

I also felt the motor after the flight and it was a LOT cooler than after a 450 flight or a 600 flight. So it seems the motor is not being stress that much.

[rcasey212]

When you're running higher voltage, your system is more efficient because you're not drawing as much amps and things don't get as hot. Andy said it's drawing avg. about 18amps. That's not much more than a Trex450 is drawing, so I can see why it can get 7min.

According to these results from TrexTuning (http://www.trextuning.com/3s-mini-test.php), the Align 430XL can draw nearly 38A, and the XL isn't even the biggest amp drawing motor in their test!

[fireup]

According to these results from TrexTuning (http://www.trextuning.com/3s-mini-test.php), the Align 430XL can draw nearly 38A, and the XL isn't even the biggest amp drawing motor in their test!

The key word there is Can draw. But what determine flight time is Average Amp draw. Here's a data log of a 430XL flight, It peaks at about 32A but if you notice the Avg. Amp draw is only 14.5 amps. that's only about 1250 out of the 2170 pack for about 4.5 min of flight.

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=30613&d=1194899335

[WillJames]

Nice photos Fireup!! Thanks for sharing!!

[rotary65]

When you're running higher voltage, your system is more efficient because you're not drawing as much amps and things don't get as hot. Andy said it's drawing avg. about 18amps. That's not much more than a Trex450 is drawing, so I can see why it can get 7min.

Ah yes, but the power is not different. The watts drawn per kg is what counts. High voltage doesn't - you're just trading amps for volts, power remains the same.

I am also a little confused by your chart which shows headspeed of >3K. With my 500TH running 2700 RPM on my 750g Trex 450SE using 3S TPX2200 packs, I can only safely get 5 minutes of flight (~80% taken out) flying mild 3D. Unless you're running Air Thunder or Kong packs, you need to follow the 80% rule. I guess I just need to do a flight with my datalogger attached to see what I'm drawing. 7 minutes seems a long way off for my 450.

The disc loading seems to be higher with the 500 as compared to the 450. Hopefully the real specs will help make sense of the performance claimed.

Unless the specs are really off, or unless Align has come up with a super efficient power system, then I will have to see 7 minute times on 6S 2200 in order to really believe it. I don't need 7 minute flights to buy into it, but it would be very nice.

[pitounet]

I believe at the end of the video the pack is completely drained out, you can hear the head speed drop dramatically.

[rotary65]

That wouldn't suprise me at all. It is in Align's interest to show maximum flight time, even if it means overdischarged (destroyed/damaged) packs. Of course, the majority of us will need to respect the 80% rule (unless you're flying Air Thunder or Kong packs) so that our packs last.

I would prefer to see realistic flights (80% rule) so that I could have my expectations properly set to avoid dissapointment.

80% of 7 minutes is 5.6 minutes.

[Big Fil]

How do you know they are exaggerating? Why don't you just ask Bob how much was put back into his 6s 2500 pack that was flown by Andy.

[Finless]

I don't know what went back into it... Andy took the pack with him to Vegas. The pack was not broke in and had been sitting unused for 2 months at least! It needed to be cycled a few times for sure. It may have even gone bad sitting. I have not talked to Andy since last weekend so I don't have a status on that pack.

Bob

[rotary65]

Sorry - I was referring to the Align videos. 6S 2500mAH has 63 Watts, 6S 2200mAH has only 55 (~80% of the capacity). In theory, that's a difference between 7 minutes and 5.6 minutes. Jason's video on 6S was using 6S 2100 - even less capacity.

[rotary65]

Dug up some different data (http://www.thetrexforums.com/?topic=2287.msg26321#msg26321) from the first Align videos that reveals the difference. On 6S, the 4.5 minute flight time is with a headspeed of only 2650 RPM, while the 8 minute flight times are likely with a headspeed of ~2100 RPM. This is much less than what Andy quoted on the video (3000 and 2600) and certainly goes a long way towards explaining the discrepancy.

It's all still a lot of speculation. It'll be nice when we have production Trex 500s in our hands so we can share our own data/experiences.

[Finless]

Not sure I believe that post after seeing Andy fly it with over 2600 HS!!! For sure that data isn't accurate and no telling where the data there originated! i can tell you seeing it myself NO WAY 2100 head speed.

You cant believe everything you read on a forum man.... Including stuff I tell you though I usually speak from SEEING it live rather than posting info that may have com through many mouths! I try to be honest and not post conjecture as much as possible BUT that data CANT be right at least not with what I have seen.

Bob

[Laddy]

And was even shown to bump the head speed up early into the flight didn't Bob.
It looked like a long flight to me.
Bob was that a FP 2170 or 2500 pack you had for him?

[Symon]

Those facts game direct from the owner of Align and AS and JK. They may not be the same as a reps stats but that's because JK's and ASJ's stats are bound to be different as they fly at a different level than us all (especially me ;) )

But they're not speculation.

I don't see taking the word of the people who designed and built this thing as conjecture...to be fair.

It's also worth remembering that those were also from the first prototype tests:)

[Finless]

Yeas agreed.... They also were testing different motors so true the end numbers now could be very different. Good POINT!

Bob

[Heli_freak]

Thanks for the pics.

[rotary65]

Now that the 500 is making into the hands of more pilots, 4.5 minute flight times (80% used) for 6S1P 2200 setups seems to be the experience. Not a lot of data on specific configurations (pinion used, headspeed), but the videos are showing a pattern.

So, 7 minute flight times on two 3S Trex packs (2200mAH) may be hard to attain. Perhaps for sport fliers with much lower headspeed?

[Finless]

Yep.... as was said Andy was running between 2600 and 2800 head speed and getting some of those times. Hgher head speed and harder flying will always reduce flight time. Heck as you know we have people getting 8-10 minutes on a 450SE by running 2200-2400 head speed and just basic forward flight stuff.

Time will be dependant on how you fly and head speed.

Bob