zguy
11-15-2007, 03:43 AM
Background:
After owning my TREX 450SE for about 14 months I decided that it was time to try a larger heli. Nitro is not for me at this time and the TREX 600E was just a bit too big and demanding on the currently available power systems (6S anyway).
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/10/29902173449.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6954759)
The Logo 500 appealed to me from the start, but I just don’t like to be the early adopter “guinea pig” any more and happily waited for others to work through the teething pains. These turned out to be minor (motor mount/gear stripping issue) and Mikado quickly addressed it by upgrading to a FREE AL motor mount and including the more robust mod 0.7 main gear from the 600. I was VERY impressed by this response from Mikado and it definitely influenced my purchase decision. Other manufacturers can definitely learn from this and the next time I have to wait and then pay for a needed upgrade/fix I’ll feel much worse about it!
The last data point that allowed me to pull the trigger on this purchase was the release of the TREX 500 specifications and photos. Simply put, the TREX 500 is NOT a competitor to the Logo 500.
The TREX 500 is a much smaller and lighter heli than the Logo 500 (it uses 425mm to maybe 480mm blades whereas the Logo uses 500mm to 560mm) and it simply is not a big enough change from the 450 to warrant the upgrade expense for me. I’m not saying anything against the TREX 500, it’s simply smaller than what I wanted.
Build:
The kit arrived and here are some thoughts in no particular order:
- The build was quick and EASY!! Low parts count and simple, functional German engineering.
- Parts fit very well with really impressive tolerances on everything.
- Yes, just about everything is plastic. (So those hooked on “bling” and carbon may not be happy.) I must say that this plastic, and in fact overall design, reminds me of German military weapons that use extensive plastic (Glock, Heckler and Koch, ETC) and that I have no perception of cheap quality from the kit. On the contrary, every part seems better engineered with better tolerances than the Align ones and there is no slop in the head at all.
- There is a proper place for everything (servos, rx, gyro) and setup and serviceability could not be easier.
- The only real “modification” I made was to attach the landing gear using nylon screws. In some early crash reports from others, the frame would break where the landing gear attaches, so I hope these nylon screws will let go before the frame breaks if, OK when I put it in!
- And, Larger heli’s are easier to work on!!
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31803160713.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7094868)
Parts and cost:
This is what I hope will be the most helpful to others considering the Logo (or any new heli). The initial kit cost is just the start, and I’ve tried to include everything to give a realistic idea of what getting into a larger e-heli will cost. (The prices are what I paid.)
Many of us in the hobby kid ourselves (or at least our significant others! ;-) ) on the true costs.
Remember that these are my final parts choices. If you start cheap, take the upgrade path and end up buying things multiple times till you’re satisfied, your costs will end up being much higher! I’ve already purchased what turned out to be the wrong blades, battery and a few misc items totaling over $200 in wasted time and money to get to this final setup that I’m sharing (more in notes later).
Logo 500:
Logo 500 kit $399
Hacker A40-10L $119
16T Mod 0.7 Pinion $20
Bullet Connectors $6
Phoenix 85HV $162
Hercules 5A BEC $40
Futaba 401/9254 $190
Align Stepdown for 9254 $4
Futaba BLS451 (x3) $266
Mikado Servo arms $15
AR7000 RX $75
RotorTech 550mm Blades $85
K & B Tail Blades $8
Mikado Hard Dampeners $4
Align 440mm Flybar $5
Nylon M3 Screws $0
Sub-total: $1,398
Batteries/Charger:
FP EVO25 5000 6S (x2) $540!
Bantum BC8 $239
Misc:
Large Pitch Gauge $25
Large Blade Balancer $20
Sticker kit for Canopy $25
Total: $2,247.00
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31803160895.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7094870)
Parts Notes:
Motor – I’m very happy with this motor choice! There is a slightly hotter A40-8L which would cost flight time and of course the Neu’s at almost 3x the cost.
ESC – Jazz is another option at 2x cost.
Servos – Love these new brushless servos! Very precise and smooth. 147 oz/in and .010 sec at 6.0v These seem a great match for this application. Not bad at < $90/ea either!
Gyro – tried and true 401/9254 combo at a great price! Some day may upgrade to Spartan or even V-bar! ;-), but 401 is fine for my current needs and skill level.
Blades – I started with the Mikado 500mm blades and although not bad, they did not perform as I had hoped a heli of this size would. They were just a bit small for the weight of the 5000 packs and did not have the stability and performance I hoped for. The RotorTech 550mm blades are the only other ones I’ve tried so far and completely transformed the Logo into the machine I was hoping for! Great combination of stability and performance, but at the cost of a little flight time (details below). The hard Mikado dampeners are needed with these 550mm blades. Also, the longer Align 440mm flybar is a better match to the 550mm blades than the stock 400mm one.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31803160764.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7094869)
Overall setup notes:
My goal was a moderate to advanced 3D setup to match my skill level and the above list is what met those needs. For a milder setup, the 500mm blades can yield 7 min flight times w/ a 5000 Lipo. For a more advanced setup, a hotter motor and smaller/lighter battery could yield almost 450-like performance, but of course w/ shorter (4 min?) flight times depending on setup.
My setup:
Pitch = +/- 13 deg.
Cyclic = max before binding.
HS = 2270 rpm Governed
AUW w/ 550mm, 5000 Lipo, & Canopy = 2,934 grams.
Flight times of moderate 3D average 5:35 min. (w/ 10 sec spool-up) and I’m averaging 3650 mA, or a conservative 73% back in the pack. I think this is a very good result for the level of performance delivered!
Flight impressions:
I LOVE IT!!!
(OK, more details…) It is a bit intimidating the first time you fly something almost 3 times larger than a TREX 450. Once in the air, everything just keeps getting better. It is much more stable, easier to see, and basically slows the time-scale down so that you have more time to think and control maneuvers. Using this particular setup, it’s not quite as responsive as my 450, but is pretty close! My guess is that the Logo performs like a “sports car” (OK, a German Sports Car!) version of the TREX 600E. It’s a bit smaller, lighter, and has a better power to weight ratio than the 600E which gives better flight times while being easier on the power system.
Another engineering improvement appears to be the herringbone gears. They are very quiet and make the heli appear to be running at a lower head speed than actual. The entire drive train also seems very efficient and spool down takes a very long time. There’s an optional, huge, head button that covers the entire flybar holder. It’s not appealing and I didn’t want the extra weight, so no head button. Maybe one of the few aftermarket opportunities? It’s interesting how few upgrades are available for the Logo’s? I’m beginning to see that it’s because they are not needed!
Summary:
The Logo 500 3D has met or exceeded my expectations. It looks to be a workhorse flying machine that can deliver as many flights as you have Lipo’s and that’s really the only major downside. Lipo’s are rapidly getting better and cheaper, so at least the situation is improveing. In the meantime, it’s the price of flying a big e-heli. Other nit picking includes the slightly flimsy, albeit lightweight, canopy. It’s a bit awkward to get on and off, but gets a little better with practice.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31803160875.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7094871)
I hope this was helpful and I’ll try to respond to questions when I can.
Also hope to get some video soon!
This is a great hobby and things are advancing so quickly that I can only imagine the technology we’ll all be flying in the not so distant future! (V-bar?!?)
After owning my TREX 450SE for about 14 months I decided that it was time to try a larger heli. Nitro is not for me at this time and the TREX 600E was just a bit too big and demanding on the currently available power systems (6S anyway).
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/10/29902173449.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=6954759)
The Logo 500 appealed to me from the start, but I just don’t like to be the early adopter “guinea pig” any more and happily waited for others to work through the teething pains. These turned out to be minor (motor mount/gear stripping issue) and Mikado quickly addressed it by upgrading to a FREE AL motor mount and including the more robust mod 0.7 main gear from the 600. I was VERY impressed by this response from Mikado and it definitely influenced my purchase decision. Other manufacturers can definitely learn from this and the next time I have to wait and then pay for a needed upgrade/fix I’ll feel much worse about it!
The last data point that allowed me to pull the trigger on this purchase was the release of the TREX 500 specifications and photos. Simply put, the TREX 500 is NOT a competitor to the Logo 500.
The TREX 500 is a much smaller and lighter heli than the Logo 500 (it uses 425mm to maybe 480mm blades whereas the Logo uses 500mm to 560mm) and it simply is not a big enough change from the 450 to warrant the upgrade expense for me. I’m not saying anything against the TREX 500, it’s simply smaller than what I wanted.
Build:
The kit arrived and here are some thoughts in no particular order:
- The build was quick and EASY!! Low parts count and simple, functional German engineering.
- Parts fit very well with really impressive tolerances on everything.
- Yes, just about everything is plastic. (So those hooked on “bling” and carbon may not be happy.) I must say that this plastic, and in fact overall design, reminds me of German military weapons that use extensive plastic (Glock, Heckler and Koch, ETC) and that I have no perception of cheap quality from the kit. On the contrary, every part seems better engineered with better tolerances than the Align ones and there is no slop in the head at all.
- There is a proper place for everything (servos, rx, gyro) and setup and serviceability could not be easier.
- The only real “modification” I made was to attach the landing gear using nylon screws. In some early crash reports from others, the frame would break where the landing gear attaches, so I hope these nylon screws will let go before the frame breaks if, OK when I put it in!
- And, Larger heli’s are easier to work on!!
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31803160713.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7094868)
Parts and cost:
This is what I hope will be the most helpful to others considering the Logo (or any new heli). The initial kit cost is just the start, and I’ve tried to include everything to give a realistic idea of what getting into a larger e-heli will cost. (The prices are what I paid.)
Many of us in the hobby kid ourselves (or at least our significant others! ;-) ) on the true costs.
Remember that these are my final parts choices. If you start cheap, take the upgrade path and end up buying things multiple times till you’re satisfied, your costs will end up being much higher! I’ve already purchased what turned out to be the wrong blades, battery and a few misc items totaling over $200 in wasted time and money to get to this final setup that I’m sharing (more in notes later).
Logo 500:
Logo 500 kit $399
Hacker A40-10L $119
16T Mod 0.7 Pinion $20
Bullet Connectors $6
Phoenix 85HV $162
Hercules 5A BEC $40
Futaba 401/9254 $190
Align Stepdown for 9254 $4
Futaba BLS451 (x3) $266
Mikado Servo arms $15
AR7000 RX $75
RotorTech 550mm Blades $85
K & B Tail Blades $8
Mikado Hard Dampeners $4
Align 440mm Flybar $5
Nylon M3 Screws $0
Sub-total: $1,398
Batteries/Charger:
FP EVO25 5000 6S (x2) $540!
Bantum BC8 $239
Misc:
Large Pitch Gauge $25
Large Blade Balancer $20
Sticker kit for Canopy $25
Total: $2,247.00
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31803160895.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7094870)
Parts Notes:
Motor – I’m very happy with this motor choice! There is a slightly hotter A40-8L which would cost flight time and of course the Neu’s at almost 3x the cost.
ESC – Jazz is another option at 2x cost.
Servos – Love these new brushless servos! Very precise and smooth. 147 oz/in and .010 sec at 6.0v These seem a great match for this application. Not bad at < $90/ea either!
Gyro – tried and true 401/9254 combo at a great price! Some day may upgrade to Spartan or even V-bar! ;-), but 401 is fine for my current needs and skill level.
Blades – I started with the Mikado 500mm blades and although not bad, they did not perform as I had hoped a heli of this size would. They were just a bit small for the weight of the 5000 packs and did not have the stability and performance I hoped for. The RotorTech 550mm blades are the only other ones I’ve tried so far and completely transformed the Logo into the machine I was hoping for! Great combination of stability and performance, but at the cost of a little flight time (details below). The hard Mikado dampeners are needed with these 550mm blades. Also, the longer Align 440mm flybar is a better match to the 550mm blades than the stock 400mm one.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31803160764.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7094869)
Overall setup notes:
My goal was a moderate to advanced 3D setup to match my skill level and the above list is what met those needs. For a milder setup, the 500mm blades can yield 7 min flight times w/ a 5000 Lipo. For a more advanced setup, a hotter motor and smaller/lighter battery could yield almost 450-like performance, but of course w/ shorter (4 min?) flight times depending on setup.
My setup:
Pitch = +/- 13 deg.
Cyclic = max before binding.
HS = 2270 rpm Governed
AUW w/ 550mm, 5000 Lipo, & Canopy = 2,934 grams.
Flight times of moderate 3D average 5:35 min. (w/ 10 sec spool-up) and I’m averaging 3650 mA, or a conservative 73% back in the pack. I think this is a very good result for the level of performance delivered!
Flight impressions:
I LOVE IT!!!
(OK, more details…) It is a bit intimidating the first time you fly something almost 3 times larger than a TREX 450. Once in the air, everything just keeps getting better. It is much more stable, easier to see, and basically slows the time-scale down so that you have more time to think and control maneuvers. Using this particular setup, it’s not quite as responsive as my 450, but is pretty close! My guess is that the Logo performs like a “sports car” (OK, a German Sports Car!) version of the TREX 600E. It’s a bit smaller, lighter, and has a better power to weight ratio than the 600E which gives better flight times while being easier on the power system.
Another engineering improvement appears to be the herringbone gears. They are very quiet and make the heli appear to be running at a lower head speed than actual. The entire drive train also seems very efficient and spool down takes a very long time. There’s an optional, huge, head button that covers the entire flybar holder. It’s not appealing and I didn’t want the extra weight, so no head button. Maybe one of the few aftermarket opportunities? It’s interesting how few upgrades are available for the Logo’s? I’m beginning to see that it’s because they are not needed!
Summary:
The Logo 500 3D has met or exceeded my expectations. It looks to be a workhorse flying machine that can deliver as many flights as you have Lipo’s and that’s really the only major downside. Lipo’s are rapidly getting better and cheaper, so at least the situation is improveing. In the meantime, it’s the price of flying a big e-heli. Other nit picking includes the slightly flimsy, albeit lightweight, canopy. It’s a bit awkward to get on and off, but gets a little better with practice.
http://img2.putfile.com/thumb/11/31803160875.jpg (http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=7094871)
I hope this was helpful and I’ll try to respond to questions when I can.
Also hope to get some video soon!
This is a great hobby and things are advancing so quickly that I can only imagine the technology we’ll all be flying in the not so distant future! (V-bar?!?)