looking at

[Jadesfire]

hey guys I've been looking into getting a 90 or bigger sized heli and thought about a bergen. I've heard gassers are not fast to react if you have a dumb thumb moment.... nor are they able to do todays outlook on 3d. I know they can go inverted but haven't seen fast tic tocs or incrediable saves. but are they able to? Kinda tired of paying $26 per gallon for fuel but worried bout spending the $$ and not being happy. any input will be helpful thanks

[mister2u]

I bought my Bergen to learn on and have enjoyed it very much. I love the stability of it as well. Regarding heavy 3D flying, I don't know, but I think too many Bergen owners go that route with their gassers. I think that they just enjoy the flight characteristics of the machine. Smooth as silk, if you ask me! There are some videos of Chris and Malorie doing some 3D flying with the gasser. If you haven't seen them yet, you can find them at http://bergenrc.com/Videos.php and http://www.bergenrc.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12&sid=b217ca630571b0db7824e2788d469663. Maybe that will give you an idea of what these machines are capable of. Just my 2 cents. Good luck in whatever machine you decide to go with, though.


Byron

[lperagallo]

jadesfire,

I can't answer the 3D question because my skills aren't there yet, but when it comes to dumb thumbs, I'm an expert. I fly both a Gasser and nitro and haven't noticed any difference on how fast you can correct from a mistake. Now the Gasser is heavier and a bit slower, but the power is there unless you do real stupid things. Like anything else, you have to learn how to fly them. With my Gasser I do things up a bit higher. With it's size, being up high is not a problem. I also don't fly it as close to myself as I do a Nitro. Again the size thing, so it's all how you learn to fly it. I have seen capable flyers do 3D with gasser, but you are not going to get the same pop that you get from nitro.

What you will love is the cheap fuel, long flight times and NO cleanup. Also all you need to bring to the field is the TX, gas can and Heli. I run a generator so I don't even have to worry about charging my batteries.

Bergen customer service is second to none and the quality of the bird is great. There are only maybe two upgrades available so you don't need to spent money after you build the stock kit. If you want to see a Bergen fly in real life, go to youtube and put "lperagallo" in search and see videos I've posted.

Lou

[Bobs]

Jadesfire, if 3D is a main factor in your decision then definitely look into a Spectra G. I own and built both a Bergen Intrepid gasser and a Spectra G gasser. Both fine birds but the Spectra G is by far more 3D capable. And Miniature Aircraft's service is also excellent. If you're looking for an enjoyable build experience, the Spectra wins hands down. If and when you need parts, Miniature Aircraft's (Spectra G) parts are available at most hobby shops, including Heliproz and Rick's with free shipping on orders over $100.00. Bergen's parts are only available through them and you will not only pay top dollar for the parts but also shipping and handling charges. Good luck in whatever decision you make.

[cbergen]

Hi Bob,

Question for you. Do you think that Heliproz or Ricks or any other who offer "FREE" shipping do not HAVE to pay UPS or USPS for that shipping somehow? No.

So guess how they do that!

[geepfreek]

hey guys jadesfire is my friends screan name sorry bout the confusion

I'm more of an aerobatic pilot now ya know a flip, some rolls little inverts every now and then but still learning and I'm just concerned if i get in a spot i may not be able to catch it but like you'll have said "you need to learn how to fly it" and get comfortable with it thanks

[Trevor January]

i can guess how they do it :thumbdown: ................. "free shipping"

[Bobs]

Chris, here's a question for you: if I order a 401 gyro and 9254 servo from you the cost is $275.00, plus shipping and handling charges. If I place the same identical order from Heliproz the cost is $189.99 with "free shipping" and no handling. Rick's is a little higher ($214.00) but once again the shipping is free and, of course, no handling charge. Not only is your price almost a hundred dollars more, why also is there an additional shipping and handling charge? I just feel that it's only fair that prospective buyers be fully informed about the discrepancies in the cost of parts before making their decision to purchase a specific heli. I know that had I been better informed before purchasing my Intrepid gasser I would certainly have made a different choice.

[lperagallo]

Bobs,

Those who have been on the forum awhile certainly know that you flat out don't like Bergen.

Let's put some of your logic to the test and see how it fares with other suppliers. Heliproz and Ricks buy in large quantities. In fact Ricks is now a partner with Heliproz. They sell volume, they get better breaks because they buy more. I can find quite a few online shops that sell the 401 for list price and you have to pay shipping. For the most part you buy from Bergen what they supply best....HELICOPTER parts. If you do compare similar quality and size machines you will see that parts are about the same. There are of course some parts more and some less. But if you look at the quality and longevity of the parts, Bergen beats just about everyone. If you keep it in the air long enough without crashing you aren't changing parts.

Also, since you don't know the legal aspects of "Shipping and Handling" I'll explain it to you. About 25 years ago, suppliers used to have a line called "Shipping". When UPS came along and started to provide discounts and rebates to shippers some people who were billed "Shipping" decided to sue those companies that didn't pass along discounts or rebates. Since our legal system is what it is courts agreed that if you call it "shipping" you must charge your cost. So, to keep "shipping" costs down and share partial discounts with their customers suppliers charge "Shipping and Handling". That way it's a win win. The supplier can share their discounts with their customers and not get sued by some crazy a$$ person who wants it all.

Now, I'm sure you are the type that wants it all, so let me explain why you can't have it all. There is an administrative cost that goes along with tracking and recovering discounts and rebates. The cost to shippers needs to be accounted for and that's why you can't get all the discount for yourself. In addition, rebates and discounts are based on contract between the shipper and carrier and is based on volume. That discount and rebate is normally calculated at least 3 months after shipments are made, so it is impossible to know what the true cost of shipping a parcel is until all the volume has been calculated. This system works with all carriers including our beloved government sponsored USPS.

So if you wish to eliminate all shipping and handling charges go pick up the product yourself.

Lou

[savage]

I'm also looking in to getting a Bergen Gasser. My question is the 26 engine you offer is it a modifyed one, and if not how much extra. Forgot this one can you custimize packages with different radios (2.4).

[Bobs]

Thanks for the explanation, Lou. As for wanting it all, well, let's just say I try to find the best deal I can, which is just plain common sense. Shipping and handling aside, my loyalty to Bergen ends when parts from him cost $100.00 more than his competition or when the same parts can be purchased at local retailers for two to three times less than he sells them for. The argument that his parts cost more because he doesn't buy in large volume just doesn't cut it, not when we're talking about prices for certain parts costing two and three times more. I guess when you can afford a $10,000 toy turbine heli the cost of parts doesn't really matter much. However, I think most prospective buyers would appreciate knowing this information before making their decision to purchase a Bergen. I have a wealth of information to offer potential Bergen buyers and am confident that once they are better informed that they will at least look at other similar heli manufacturers before making a decision. I am not suggesting that they not buy a Bergen or that Bergen is anything other than a well built heli, I merely think this information is important to anyone considering the purchase of an RC heli.

[lperagallo]

Savage,

I got the stock engine from Bergen then sent it off to Hanson. By the time I was ready to install the engine in the frames I had the engine back from Hanson. I got a Pro Plus mod and it didn't cost much because I sent him the brand new engine. You know you don't need a modified engine for the Bergen? I got the modified engine because I didn't know a lot about tuning the engine so I wanted one that started out smooth. I'll say that my experience now in tuning an engine is fair and my birds fly nice, but it really helps to get someone who knows what they are doing to help you out if this is your first Gasser. It's not like a Nitro and Nitro experience will more then likely hurt the engine if you apply the same principles. There are a bunch of engine tuning threads you can read, but time will make you a better engine tuner.

Lou

[savage]

I wasn't worried about power just I have heard the 26 has more vibration than the 23. It is the 26 that comes with it? If it is the 23 then I'm not worried. When I do get one I wouldn't need the extra power, I just enjoy flying circuit with a few rolls and loops. I want longer and cheaper flight time, to get real smooth flights. With my 50 it seems like when I start getting in to it, it is time to land. And just to be safe I recharge my RX pack and fly my trex 450.

[lperagallo]

Savage,

It's the G26, but don't worry with G10 frames the vibration isn't an issue. It also runs at a pretty slow RPM so the vibes are not that bad. I think Bergen is teh only bird where a G26 can be used stock. By the way, I was out flying today and at 15 minutes flying I only burn a half of a tank of fuel.

Lou

[savage]

Thats what I'm talkin bout!

[savage]

How much for the balance mod anyway?

[lperagallo]

Don't quote me but I think Hanson does it on a new engine for $75.00 if I remember right. Mine is over a year old. I did it back in August of 06. Give him a call. his web site is http://www.bhhanson.com/

Lou

[savage]

Thank you Lou

Charlie

[cbergen]

My apologies for the hijack, but Bobs deserves an answer.

For the uninformed, we are NOT a hobby shop. We OFFER radio gear as part of a package deal when you buy a helicopter. This is our agreement with our radio suppliers as an OEM vendor.

As such, and I have explained this to YOU before Bobs, but for some reason YOU choose to continue to rehash bull$hit, we do NOT get the same discount as HOBBY shops get when they buy in volume.

I do NOT force anyone to buy radio gear from us, I merely offer the ease of one stop buying IF you need radio gear. Hell, most times I TELL the customer it will probably be cheaper to get it at heliproz or Tower or Rick's or pick your favorite.

My prices are posted for all to see, nothing is "hidden" Including any "shipping" charges!!

My HELICOPTER parts, that WE manufacture ARE comparable to any high end heli, as far as prices go. If you don't want to purchase radio gear from us, that's fine. Don't.

And you wonder why you get into "arguments", why people ignore you......

Get over yourself.

[Bobs]

Sure, I've heard your explanation before and it was lame then and it's lame now. Why don't you explain why you charge your customers $10.95 for a spark plug when they can purchase the same one for around $4.00 from any local auto parts store? Why do you charge 7 or $8.00 for (4) rubber canopy grommets when the exact/identical ones cost $.20 ea at the local hardware store? And this latest response from you is exactly the kind of sarcastic attitude you exhibited before. If someone disagrees with you, or has a different opinion, you become a sarcastic, arrogant, know-it-all, wise ass. As long as everyone agrees with you 100%, you seem to be a pretty civil, agreeable individual. But God forbid if anyone goes against your rigid, anal, ideas and beliefs. You started this riff over a year ago when several people (including myself) offered advice to a new guy that had several questions, one of which concerned the use of camper fuel instead of gasoline. I merely explained my experience with using camper fuel. Other suggestions/experiences were shared with this individual in an effort to try and help him out. Then you showed up on the forum and quickly lambasted us for giving advice and told this individual to ignore all the "BULL$HIT" we had to offer and to only do exactly what you said. Things deteriorated between us ever since then and, unfortunately, continue. I feel obligated to inform all prospective Bergen buyers of my personal experience with you and what they can expect after their purchase. There are numerous others that share my feelings about you and your helis but they are afraid to speak up. They know that if and when they need parts they have no choice but to come directly to you, making it somewhat awkward if they disagree or speak out against you. You can try and defend your business practices all you want, I for one am not buying it.

[cbergen]

Well, let's see.

You start off by giving us $hit for shipping charges, then you lambaste us for radio gear prices.

I only charge what the post office or UPS charge me for shipping, and I charge what I am required to by the importers/distributors for radio gear as an OEM vendor.

You didn't even buy your radio gear from us in the first place!! So I'm confused on why you are complaining?

Instead of trying to make me out to be some kind of dishonest businessman, all you have to say, when the question is asked, "I found them here for this price." Easy, nonconfrontational, and I couldn't care less. Hell, maybe I would be interested in that information myself!!

Nope, you choose to be a troll.

By the way, ever find those BOLTS that DIDN'T come with your insulator????

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=38625

[Bobs]

Chris, read the post from the beginning and get your facts straight. First of all, nobody gave you any "$hit" about shipping charges. I merely stated the fact that certain distributors offer free shipping & handling and their prices are considerably less expensive than yours. Fact. Next, you're correct, I did not buy my radio gear from you. However, I did not complain about it, as you have suggested. I brought it up just to make sure nobody else makes that mistake and pays you $100.00 more for the same 401 gyro/servo combo. Fact. As for being a troll, I've tried to be polite and civil in the past but your sarcastic attitude just begs for this type of response. You asked for it, you got it. Fact. As for bringing up the bolt issue, well, it just shows what a small person you really are. That issue was dealt with months ago. I apologized for the mistake and admitted I was wrong. At least I'm man enough to admit when I'm wrong. And look who's "rehashing" old bull$hit. I'm merely trying to educate prospective Bergen owners of what they can expect before and after their purchase. You're obviously offended by my truthfulness. Tough. I'll offer you the same advice you gave me: get over yourself.

[cbergen]

Bergen's parts are only available through them and you will not only pay top dollar for the parts but also shipping and handling charges.

You bring it up here, again.

Chris, here's a question for you: if I order a 401 gyro and 9254 servo from you the cost is $275.00, plus shipping and handling charges. If I place the same identical order from Heliproz the cost is $189.99 with "free shipping" and no handling. Rick's is a little higher ($214.00) but once again the shipping is free and, of course, no handling charge. Not only is your price almost a hundred dollars more, why also is there an additional shipping and handling charge? I just feel that it's only fair that prospective buyers be fully informed about the discrepancies in the cost of parts before making their decision to purchase a specific heli. I know that had I been better informed before purchasing my Intrepid gasser I would certainly have made a different choice.

This whole post, especially the part about being better informed before purchasing is the antagonistic part. Your talking about radio gear AS IF you purchased it with your heli, which is obviously NOT the case!

Again, the part of MY post you missed, NOTHING IS HIDDEN from anyone on my prices. If you don't like it, DON'T BUY IT!!

The bolt issue just goes to show, you were wrong then, and your wrong now.

[WillJames]

Sure, I've heard your explanation before and it was lame then and it's lame now. Why don't you explain why you charge your customers $10.95 for a spark plug when they can purchase the same one for around $4.00 from any local auto parts store? Why do you charge 7 or $8.00 for (4) rubber canopy grommets when the exact/identical ones cost $.20 ea at the local hardware store? And this latest response from you is exactly the kind of sarcastic attitude you exhibited before. If someone disagrees with you, or has a different opinion, you become a sarcastic, arrogant, know-it-all, wise ass. As long as everyone agrees with you 100%, you seem to be a pretty civil, agreeable individual. But God forbid if anyone goes against your rigid, anal, ideas and beliefs. You started this riff over a year ago when several people (including myself) offered advice to a new guy that had several questions, one of which concerned the use of camper fuel instead of gasoline. I merely explained my experience with using camper fuel. Other suggestions/experiences were shared with this individual in an effort to try and help him out. Then you showed up on the forum and quickly lambasted us for giving advice and told this individual to ignore all the "BULL$HIT" we had to offer and to only do exactly what you said. Things deteriorated between us ever since then and, unfortunately, continue. I feel obligated to inform all prospective Bergen buyers of my personal experience with you and what they can expect after their purchase. There are numerous others that share my feelings about you and your helis but they are afraid to speak up. They know that if and when they need parts they have no choice but to come directly to you, making it somewhat awkward if they disagree or speak out against you. You can try and defend your business practices all you want, I for one am not buying it.

Bergen is a Heli Manufacturer Bobs, not a high volume hobby shop. You obviously have an agenda, and this is not what HF is about. Show Chris and the members of HF a little respect. If you don't want to buy form Bergen then don't. Your posts in this thread UNDERMINE your credibility so why keep on?

I do now something about Bergen... I have personally bought 2 machines from Chris, and asked Chris for help and I got it, he even came here to my home to help me on his way to Atlanta once. Was it worth the few extra dollars to get that level of AWESOME customer service, you bet it was. Thank you again Chris.

I have also owned 2 Spectra G machines. The one in the John Garst Build Videos here on the FREAK was mine. Also Bob's so you know I have been in some VERY heated discussions with Chris, and I do respect him very much. He is a no BS kind of guy like me and I really appreciate that in people.

There is no way that Bergen can buy for what a HUGE retailer like HeliProz does Bob's. Bergen is a Heli Manufacturer AND service organization as a lot of their clients order their machines RTF with Radio Gear installed and tested and all setup - Turn Key. I would bet that if Chris did not HAVE to carry radio gear he would not. You cannot expect him to sell for what a huge retail/wholesale house does, that is just not possible for Bergen or anyone else like Bergen.

Sorry to butt in Chris, but this needed to be said.