E-Stratus v2.0 under progress

[MrMel]

Ive started on a E-Stratus version 2.0

I gonna confess, I dont like the Ion-X2, I think MA missed out on the design on it.
(ive told them and I guess thats why they dont like me anymore)

Mainly.
- Poor battery options without affecting CG.
- Mass of heli spread out lengthwise making it fly pretty bad compared.

Now, I have said it, many probably want to make a comment about that, dont, its not whats this thread is about, but its the background of why I gonna do the thing Im doing.

I think my E-Stratus/Nitro stratuses fly heck of lot better, so I chopped up my Ion-X2 to use as "spareparts" only and started on a E-stratus v2.0 instead.
I already have a E-stratus thanks to cgbole's work and his motormount, however, there is a couple of things that can be better.

Primary goals:

- Center of mass, as much as possible close to main shaft.
- Many of gearing options allows for different motors & gearratios.
- Good CG regardless of battery size 10-12s, 3700 to 5000 packs. (and heavier/bigger Airthunder/Kong Power packs)
- Protection of the batteries, it sucks to have a $1000 crash due to $600 worth of batteries.
- Use MA standard products as much as possible.
- Less then 30 minutes to switch between electric & nitro if you have a spare bottom setup (plate, landinggear & clutch bearing holder)



Im waiting for a longer 6mm shaft so I can use a lower support on the pulley, thats not in the pictures but already planned for.

The big ugly Aluminium L profile is gonna change to something somewhat nicer, but thats what I had to work with for initial testing.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/E-stratusV2/cimg1575.jpg


Clearance with 3700 packs.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/E-stratusV2/cimg1577.jpg



Clearance with 5000 packs.
Battery seems closer to the motor then its in reality on this picture...

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/E-stratusV2/cimg1578.jpg

Regardless of battery mah size the CG will stay the same so you can use different size of batteries without any changes/trimming.
I think 15s 3700 will fit as well, dont have the packs to try right now though.


Things I dont like so far:

- for outrunner style motors the battery cant be turned around since the cable will rub on the motor can.
However, Im thinking about a protective shield (as well as support downwards) between motor and battery, then cables isnt a problem.


Parts used so far (this will update)

Pinion 12T for MA Ion-X2 (in the picture double gear version)
6mm x 90mm shaft from SDP-SI, HQ grade.
Clutch bearing holder
22 x 6mm Bearing for the clutch bearing holder from Boca.
Lower shaft support (not in picture yet) from the Ion-X2 kit
Motor mount from the Ion-X2 kit (pretty much any mount can be used)
2 x 260mm aluminium profiles, gonna go with CF later.

Pulleys and pinions from Ion-X2/Razor, 6mm bore.
Belt from Ion-X2 kit.


Comments and suggestions about the design is welcome, early stages yet, but lets make this a good solution.

- Fredrik

[TomC]

Fredrik,

Looking very cool mate! I had a bit of a 'think' over all this and these are my 'first impression' comments.

I checked the dimensions of my Evo 5s 3700 packs and it looks like you could fit 3 of them side-ways for 15s no problem. I, and others, would like to be able to use our old, long prolites, but you cann't have everything! And, yes, I agree you really would want a crash barrier between the packs and motor imop.

I think your idea of a lower bearing support for the pulley is a good idea. I also think it would be a good idea to do an upper bearing support for the motor belt pinion as well. The lack of this is one of the 'few' design things I do not like with the Ion-x2. Probably not a big deal if the motor mount is very 'solid'.

Personally I prefer yours and Chuck's original single-staged E-stratus layouts better. Great CG, lots more battery room and a bit lighter. The main things that were needed imop was a lighter Stratus Canopy (maybe a lexan blown one) and larger MA maingears (110-140t ones) to allow wider gear ratio selection.

I would think that someone could machine these main gears, or maybe we could modify the Henseleit MPL-E helical maingear (~130t I think?) and use their helical pinions. I actually might be tempted to skip all this modifying stuff and just get an MPXL-E to begin with!

Those that have not seen this, it's at; http://www.henseleit-helicopters.de/index2.html. You need to drill-down to the MPXLE to see this heli.

Looks like it does most of what we are all after; light weight, TT tail, uses standard sized direct drive (to swashplate) servos, simple single-staged gearing (with helicals), good CG and flexible/protected battery placement. Also, about the sexiest looking heli I've ever seen! Downside is that it's hard to get (next avail production run is Jan/08) and not cheap (~$US1400). Since it's German-made, parts legally need to be available for at least 10 years. Pretty good imop since I can no longer get 3-4 year old Ion-x parts anymore (124-110, for example) from MA. Any other downsides to this heli that you (or others) can think of, please let me know, thanks.

In closing, I'm very sorry that MA does not 'like' you anymore. It seems to me that Tim does not like any alternative views on his heli's. Any negative comments seem to get his goat and get passed on and translated to many local X-cell gurus as 'this guy does not know what he is talking about'. Pretty sure it's happened to me as well. Anyway, it's his company, so all we can do is vote by our actions imop. By trying to modify his designs you may end up with a better flying heli but do not expect this to become the Ion-x3!

Cheers,
Tom C

[cgbole]

This is what i had in mind when we did the conversion. the hole in the center of the mount plate was machined out to fit the flange bearing used in the razor that supports the "counter shaft" for the upper pinion, but it looks like your solution is doing fine. i had in mind to mount the motor inverted up front similar to the razor. but it would have meant drastic changes to the main frames. however i decided to go a different route, with a different heli... but thats a different thread...
looks good
chuck

[MrMel]

Ok, some progress.

Ive completed the side rails in 3mm carbon fiber cut out using pretty much household carpeting tools.
I got a 100mm shaft so I could use the lower bearing from the Ion-X2 kit.

I added a shielding plate for the motor so the battery dont get in touch with the outrunner.

Here is how the setup looks like:
http://www.dacsa.net/heli/E-StratusV2/cimg1584.jpg

Closeup of the shielding plate
http://www.dacsa.net/heli/E-StratusV2/cimg1585.jpg

Belt with lower bearing.
http://www.dacsa.net/heli/E-StratusV2/cimg1586.jpg

With 2 x 6s1p 5000 FP packs installed, its a snug fit lengthwise since cables coming out on both sides on the FP packs (that have changed now I think though),
I tried TP, FP, AT 5s1p, 6s1p packs, all fits, FP is the longest of them all.

http://www.dacsa.net/heli/E-StratusV2/cimg1588.jpg


With these batteries and Fromec's 5200 pack (No ESC yet) the CG is spot on, so I I have all the options I want, I can choose to put the ESC under the mast on the side-rail, or switch to bec, move the ESC, use other RX pack, well you name it.

The setup is _really_ sturdy when using 3mm CF as siderails (same was used on the Ion-X2)

If weather permits I gonna flight-test it later this week.

[TomC]

Very 'compact' fit on those batteries! Where do you find room to fit your PowerJazz esc?

Cheers,
Tom C

[MrMel]

Centered under the main mast, between the rails.

[MrMel]

should add that the setup on the pictures are pretty much worst case senario regards to battery compartment, its not gonna be much more, but you have about 8-10mm extra to gain if you switch the gearing around a bit (same output gearing, but use other setups)

However, Its really not an issue, so I will run it like this until I changes motor.

[MrMel]

Updated partlist (2007-12-05)

Pinion 12T for MA Ion-X2 (in the picture double gear version)
6mm x 100mm shaft from SDP-SI, HQ grade.
Clutch bearing holder
22 x 6mm Bearing for the clutch bearing holder from Boca.
Lower shaft support from the Ion-X2 kit (CF, Holder, Bearing)
Motor mount from the Ion-X2 kit (pretty much any mount can be used)
23 x 260mm CF plates, 3mm thick, cut using carpeting tools + dremel.
2 x Shims from Ion-X2 kit (6 inner by 8 outer mm)
8 x Razor Distances (9mm + 2mm plastic)
8 x 1mm shims to total distance from frame to side rails is 12mm making a little squeece on motor mount(0.5mm per side)
6mm Belt pulley and gear for the razor
10mm belt for the razor (gonna get back to how many teeths)
Motor protection wall is alu part from a Dubro Hacker motor mount, but any alu will pretty much work.

In this version Im running 10.9:1 gearing, Ive adjusted the upper bearing plate to fit,
However, I run a bit tighter gearmesh then on a standard nitro.

Gonna compile a complete partlist with partnumbers when I have tested it and im finished.
Will also then post the drawing for the rails which can be used as a template when drilling/cutting.

[MrMel]

First test hover in the backyard was a success, it didnt explode :)
No vibrations.

Going to see if I test-fly it today or later this week/weekend (depends on the weather gods)

[Eyon]

That is a seriously cool setup MrMel! Please post videos and pictures!

[Chachin]

Looking good Mr.Mel :D, can't wait to hear how you like it once you throw it around some.

Chachin..

[MrMel]

Complete success,

Supersmooth, perfect CG, was a joy to do piroflips with it.

Got off two flights today, unfortunally couldnt convice my wife coming with me to shoot a video (and freeze her butts off)

Will try to get a video next time.

I currently run an old Actro 32-3 in it, I might change that to something more powerful, since I can now play around with gearing alot plus use motors that are longer then I could use in the single stage version.

Fun times ahead.

[dokktor]

Are there some news - Motor/ Setup etc.


Greetz Ingo

[MrMel]

Ive just switched motor to a LRK 435.30 (made for the revolution heli), Ive also got a VBar unit for it.

Havent got around to test it since work & weather have been in the way, will be back from a business trip around the 11th of jan, will continue testing then.

[Caleb Phillips]

Ive just switched motor to a LRK 435.30 (made for the revolution heli), Ive also got a VBar unit for it.

Havent got around to test it since work & weather have been in the way, will be back from a business trip around the 11th of jan, will continue testing then.

Are you going to be using the R90 grips with this Stratus as well? I'm itching to go flybarless but can't stand to put Raptor parts on my Stratus.

[cgbole]

look at some vario grips ...
http://us.vario-helicopter.biz/shop/product_info.php?products_id=31067
chuck

[Caleb Phillips]

I saw where a guy on RR machined some arms for the metal MA grips and they looked good (nice geometry and all). I guess the flybarless guys aren't having so much luck using the stock plastic MA grips?

[MrMel]

Some updates, havent been out flying much due to crappy weather this winter.


Installed a Neu 1521 (bruteforced it in there), its powerful, extremely powerful.
Ive converted it to using VBar as well, and it of course became even more powerful :shock:


http://www.dacsa.net/heli/e-stratusv2/1521/cimg1746.jpg

Drivetrain setup, pretty steep gearing since I run 12s and motor kv is 1050, so far it holds up.
http://www.dacsa.net/heli/e-stratusv2/1521/cimg1747.jpg

My MA + QuickUK Raptor (grips) + Mikado (swashdriver) flybarless head.
http://www.dacsa.net/heli/e-stratusv2/1521/cimg1748.jpg

Upper support for the motor shaft, dont think the motor would last 5 flights without it.
http://www.dacsa.net/heli/e-stratusv2/1521/cimg1749.jpg

[MrMel]

Just an update on this,

The neu 1521 had to go out, it was insanely powerful, but I dumped 4000mah in 4 minutes, fun for 4 minutes but I settle on a little less power and a little more runtime.

I currently run Neu 1915/1.5Y H version which is powerful but fair runtimes

[WillJames]

Very cool setup MrMel!! Thanks for sharing. :noteworthy:smokin:

[ATLProfessor]

Very interesting man. Keep us updated on the progress!

Evan