Wich Gasser, After Electric ???

[IREXDATREX]

Wich gasser, after electric??? If you were going to guide someone into the WORLD OF GASSER's where would you take them. Gasser's appear to be smooth, dependable and reliable RC Heli's. The cost looks like it will be a trade off from one company to the next. So what would be the deciecive factor on where you steered them.

Are the Century and the Bergen close cost and in performance? Is there one Gasser that realy stands out??? Is there one preferred engine??? Is there one perferred control system???

Most guidence I reciev is pointing me towards a 600TREX Pro. I keep being drawn to a bigger leap! ThanX, IREXDATREX

[jeffros1805]

I went from an electric (trex 450) to a gasser (Spectra G) that I bought off e bay used (but in great condition). I dont regret it at all except its huge and takes up alot of space flying. Its very stable, cheap to fly and doesnt require anything except your transmitter to go flying. Prime, 3 pulls and its starts right up, quiet and no afterflight clean up. I skipped nitro all together (almost bought 600n) bacause of all the field equiptment required, expensive fuel and the mess.

my .02

[RAV50]

I just love my Predator Gasser - it can be set up to be a soft easy flyer or an extreme 3D heli. And is very dependable, maintenance free and has a very low operating cost.

But there are some major differences between any gasser and most electrics.

Most electrics are very easy to assemble, wth little (if any) alignment critical areas of construction. Not so with most gassers. These areas are a lot more critical on a gasser because they have a far more complicated drive system (clutch, clutch bell, cooling fan, start mechanisms etc.). Also, due to the much higher vibration modes of a big single cyclinder gas engine, radio installation to isolate this, is also a condsideration. Next is the complication of setting low end and high end cardurator needles and setting up throttle curves to match blade loads (rather automatic in the electric domain).

Another, is the cost of reapiring after a crash (unless we are comparing to BIG electrics like a MinAir ION), the relatively smaller electrics are far less costly in this area. Heck I can usually repair my Swift for less then just the cost of a set of mainblades for any Gasser I have ever owned.

Yes, my big Preddy Gasser (as well as any of the other gassers I have owned over the past 10 years)costs less per flight for fuel then any of my nitros(including the 30's) and if you look at cost per flight in battery life on my electrics, it is even less costly then they are. But they are far more costly in every other domain.

I look at them as another type of R/C helis with their own set of advantages and disadvantages.

[rbort]

I fly Minair. Been flying them since 1997 with my first gasser 1005 kit back then before anyone ever believed in gassers. Minair makes quality machines which fit together perfectly and have an excellent lifespan with parts support and flights on original parts. I still fly my 1005 gasser today with over 1750 flights on it and 2 years ago I got the Spectra-g which now sports 408 flights.

The Spectra-g is a state of the art high quality CCPM machine of today and its 3D performance is breathtaking. If you decide to go with Minair you will be amazed! Here is a link of mine flying back in September 2006.

http://www.heliraptor.com/videos/495th_2nd_funfly/Raja_Bortcosh_with_a_gasser.wmv

-=>Raja.

[RAV50]

Here is a good video of the Predator GS, flown by Tal Fowler:

http://s67.photobucket.com/albums/h300/javaello/?action=view&current=TalFowlerMayDay.flv

[Dr_Fibinotchi]

Are the Century and the Bergen close cost and in performance? Is there one Gasser that realy stands out??? Is there one preferred engine??? Is there one perferred control system???

I would recommend finding someone to learn off of. There is basically 3 types or 4 if you want a big boy type(vario). They all can be setup to fly almost eaxaclly the same and act the same in the air with x cyclic and x collective. Some weigh a little more. The light ones are below 12.5lbs.

I always compared crash cost of the 5 spinning parts on a heli that usually need replaced to gauge crash cost. Too me the best gasser is the one thats the fastest and getting back together and not having to do much to make it run and fly right.

-Cody

[jeffros1805]

Rbort.. Nice flying in your video :thumbup:.. Everyone who is thinking about a gasser needs to see that one. 12+ minutes of flying, nice 3D, no smoke, no screetching 17000 rpm nitro sound.

Now I just need to get mine to fly like that! :noteworthy (one day)

[lperagallo]

Bergen is a nice machine.

Video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeVgbQYWD7Q

Lou

[rbort]

Lou:

Watched your video. Wanted to ask what engine/blades are you using? Seems like it can't take the load when you pull up to do loops and such, not sure if its pilot error with the collective or a combination of other things.

Generally speaking you should be able to have it continue to run at the same speed with no bog down...

-=>Raja.

[lperagallo]

Raja,

That video is with a 3DMax from Hanson. I'm running 710 Vblades with an all up weight of around 13 pounds. The engine wasn't fully broken then and my collective management wasn't that good. I'm also pulling +10, -10. Headspeed is set to 1,780 with a GV-1 if I remember correctly.

I'll have to shoot another video now that the engine is better broken in and I'm a bit better at collective management. I may also up the head speed to 1,850, but I've got check if I can run that engine speed. I think I'm at 6.92 for a gear ration so at 1,850, the engine RPM would be 12,807 just about at max for the engine. That might help. I used to run 6.42, but Al at Hanson wanted me to go to 6.92.

What ration and head speed are you running?

Lou

[rbort]

I use 1680 head speed in idle up 1 with 6.92 and it works great, +/- 10.5 degrees with SAB 710's and you just can't bog it. Its in the groove there. For idle up 2 I have 1800 head speed as the max (I don't think you should go any more than that). and with 1800 its possible to bog as you're running closer to full power from the motor and there isn't much reserve power left.

-=>Raja.

[mporlier]

I am thinking about going gasser to. I just dont know where to start!

[rbort]

I have family in Montreal so next time I come up there to visit I can bring my helis with me. Chances are it will be for some better weather time as I usually go flying at club crash there when I'm in the area. Its off route 15 North exit 23 if I remember right.

If you want to meet when I come up and see my machines you're most welcome to! Meanwhile, do some searches here and on Runryder gasser forum and you'll see alot of people asking the same questions and getting answers for them.

-=>Raja.

[mporlier]

I have family in Montreal so next time I come up there to visit I can bring my helis with me. Chances are it will be for some better weather time as I usually go flying at club crash there when I'm in the area. Its off route 15 North exit 23 if I remember right.

If you want to meet when I come up and see my machines you're most welcome to! Meanwhile, do some searches here and on Runryder gasser forum and you'll see alot of people asking the same questions and getting answers for them.

-=>Raja.

I appreciate the offer thank you! Crash is not far from where I live, 40 min drive.

Marc

[mporlier]

I see the Bergen comes with the engine and the Spectra-G does not for around the same$$.

I would like to know what is the total $$ of a ready to fly gasser. Hopefully with a parts listing. What am I looking for? No hard 3D, loops rolls inverted. Maybe scale fuse in the future, long flights and fairly easy maintenance. I have a X9303 and the RX I would use the 9CH (for maybe an AP application?)

What gasser answers does wishes?

Thank you,

Marc

[rbort]

The Spectra-g kit is around $1045 with no engine. Can you get a Bergen Intrepid with an engine for that? If so that will be going back 10 years when I bought my Minair 1005 gasser in 1997 it came with an engine for $1040.

Here, take a look at this:

http://www.bergenrc.com/Gas.php

Intrepid with no engine is $1250. One with is $1500 but that's a stock motor. If you want to compare apples to apples, you can get a Spectra for $1045 plus $300 for a stock motor for a total of $1345.

-=>Raja.

[cbergen]

C'mon Raja, How about some truth in advertising,

Heliproz, $1109 w/o engine http://www.heliproz.com/products.asp?dept=41

Ron's Heliproz south, $1125 w/o engine http://www.ronlund.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=heli&Product_Code=MA1025-3

Direct from Min Air, $1409 W/O Engine , http://www.miniatureaircraftusa.com/helicopterkits/1025_Spectra_G/1025_kit_main.asp

You can buy a stock engine for appx $300, but I believe they recommend and GEAR the heli for the modified versions that you'll spend $495 from BH Hanson.

Just a reality check.......

[rbort]

$1125 is right and that is with the Tempest Head. With the stock head its $85 cheaper at $1040 which is what I was quoting above as the Tempest head is the "upgraded version", ships stock with the 3D head.

There is nothing that says that you cannot run it with a stock G231 motor for the $300. The Spectra-g is geared to run best with a G231 at higher rpms, its not geared specifically for a modified engine but for the CC's of the engine. Also while I use Hanson G26 3D motors that go for the $495, Minair was recommending Toxic Racing modified G231's which go for about $429 if I remember right.

So for close to the $1500 that you can get an Intrepid with a stock motor, you can get a stock Spectra-g 3D head with a modified Toxic racing motor.

I think I am well into the "reality check" that you're referring to! But anyway price is not the bottomline deciding factor on a purchase as you well know. Its how you like the machine and the looks of it, who your flying buddies are and what they are flying, and your relationship with the company that makes the models.

-=>Raja.

[lperagallo]

Raja,

I thought that Min Air and Toxic Al went their separate ways. If that's true you can't get the Toxic Al version anymore. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I read a thread over at RR about it.

Lou

[j.8]

You can get the TRM directly from Toxic racing motors

http://www.toxicmarine.com/

Regards Bo Denmark

[bcook01]

"But anyway price is not the bottomline deciding factor on a purchase as you well know. Its how you like the machine and the looks of it, who your flying buddies are and what they are flying, and your relationship with the company that makes the models".:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

on the money Raja

Bob

[rbort]

The Spectra-g kit does not come with blades for the prices I quoted if things are still the same since I bought mine. Not sure if the Intrepid comes with v-blades for the advertised price, and if so that is one think to consider pricewise when comparing the two. Remember this last night and wanted to correct myself so its a fair comparison.

Lou, yes Minair stopped selling the Toxic Engines direct from them but you can still buy them as Bo stated here. This way you can buy the Minair kit from any dealer you want, and then you can buy any engine you want either stock, or Toxic from Toxic direct, or a Hanson from Al at BHhanson.com. The reason I heard was that Toxic Al wanted Minair to buy 80 modified motors at a time, and Minair didn't want to sit on them until they are sold which is understandable.

Anyway its no different than any heli heli, nitro or not as you still have to buy the individual pieces (kit, motor, muffler) to put it together.

-=>Raja.

[cbergen]

Nope, no blades in ours either.

Fair enough to me :)

[lperagallo]

Raja,

Yes, you can still get them direct from Toxic Al. My comment was related to yours about Minair recommending Toxic Al's engine and getting it direct.

I hear Toxic Al makes a good engine and has support to match. He helped a friend of mine get an engine up and running right through break in.

Lou

[ropper88]

I have a Bergen Gasser EB. DS8317,DS821 throttle, Duralite Gemini battery system,611Gyro, G260 and a Hatori muffler plus a custom painted canapoy will cost you $2800.00. That's what I have in mine a little expensive. After I got my transmission problem with the tail rotor figured out
it flys great.