Century or Bergen ?

[Dilbeck]

He anyone have thoughts on the century condor VS the Bergen Intrepid gas eb? The price diff is aprox $500.00 more for the condor, But it would seem that the Bergen would be more for higher quality. Any knowledge of the subject would be great for i can only get one or the other, Thanks clint.

[WayneBrown]

if you want a machine to build ONCE, and have minimal maintainence issues, buy a Bergen.

[RAV50]

Wayne

That is exactly how I feel about my Preddy :-)

Does the Bergen EB use 810 to 830mm mainblades??

If not it should be compared price-wise to the Predator GS/SE (1304 or 1305 versions) not to the Condor (1307 version).

P.S. I have owned and flown over 20 different helis from many top manufacturers, in the 20 plus years I have been flying helis and I find my Preddy GS to actually be one of the highest quality machines of them all.

[Dilbeck]

The Bergen is purchased with 800mm blades but both come with the same zenoah g26h engine. blade length is not a sign of quality, Both will fly with 830mm blades and they dont cost $500.00 Quality in my mind is low varation from part to part. IE out of 20 heli kits of the same kind you could exchange one frame or shaft for the other and not have to re calabrate the heli in any way. If tweeked in every way the heli should not wobble or shake upon spool up. Example: my hawk pro is ballanced in every way but the stock head has a slight wobble, you can see it with or with out the blades, its a defect in manufacturing because ive ordered 2 more and the same thing, its just a little out of round but makes a big differance on spool up. Then what about service and parts? Ordered a complete metal head upgrade from century all the goodies and a few other parts. A new canopy. thought it would take care of the off centered head. 8 days later called my dealer he called century had not shiped anything because the canopy was out of stock! I said well where is my other stuff? We didnt ship any of it. ask why, thats the way we do it, (heard it with my own ears) So if the canopy is out of stock for 3 months then what tha? This has happened to me twice! Thats service? So long story short There is more to a good Quality heli then the size of their blades. Sorry just venting.

[RAV50]

I agree - blade length is not a sign of quality and I did not infer that it was.

As I was not familiar with the relative size of the Bergen EB, I asked about the blade length. As the blade length refers to the respective size of the helis, which would reflect on differences in pricing.

Of note, is that if a head block is out by more then 2/1000 of an inch (not really noticeable to the naked eye), it will cause a lot of vibration at flight rotor speeds which would be very noticeable. So what you are seeing must be something else.

Also of note is that comparing the "quality" of the plastic moldings of a $200.00 Hawk to that of a $1600 gasser is really comparing apples to oranges. I don't even think that Century consider them in the same "quality" ball park to their Predators.

What causes shake when spool up, is slight differences in the torque of the blade bolts that secure the blades and slight differences in the chordwise center of gravity of each blade. Consequently there will be a slight shake (specially on flexible landing gear - which most trainers have) as the rotor comes up to speed and each mainblade finds its' respective lead/lag position. And this shake will be amplified if spooling up from a hard surface (e.g. pavement) compared to a softer surface (e.g. grass).

[WayneBrown]

a large portion of us have already been around the block with Century, and while I generally avoid bashing a manufacturer, this time I just can't ignore it anymore.
Ever seen a predator just explode in flight due to poor parts fit? I have.
Ever seen a Predator shake so violently that you cringed just spooling it up? I have.
Too many times the QC controls just don't work, and you get a part that won't fit, or better yet, has no threads cut to screw the bolts into.
not too long ago a guy was fighting with one after replacing a clutch. Seems the clutch mounting holes were not centered in the clutch itself. It looked fine, you just couldn't bolt it to the fan, nor bolt the upper frames to the lowers.
Too many times we've seen them hit the ground due to elevator link failure.
You could not RUN fast enough to get me to fly another predator under any circumstances. Century has had ample opportunity to rectify these issues and redeem their reputation and have opted to provide poor customer service and deniabilty instead.
I've never owned a Bergen, however I know Chris Bergen and Greg Alderman well enough to know that nothing less than perfect is good enough.
You may pay more for the Bergen, but the level of service and the positive attitude of the owners and reps along with their inherent attention to detail is more than worth it.
Some things you can't go cheap on.

[Dilbeck]

Makes good sense, on the cg of the blades but what i see is looking down from above directly into the head at all rev can see a offset wobble around center, checked and replaced main shaft, no improvement, took off head, main shaft spins true as can be no wobble, re install head and you can see the wobble like looking at a celing fan out of round. the wobble is not that much dont get me wrong, but once you ad my 600mm blades it gets much worse. Now I must say this is not a huge wobble to most people it may seem like normal but im a ballace freak and tuning in more important than flying because you can only fly based on your weakest link. Just flying hard 3D will bend the feathering shaft enough to make a diff in the way the heli handles. I Ballance everything and it purs like a kitten.

[Dilbeck]

Wayne you said it all, and its all that needs to be said on the subject, have heard and seen more bad stuff on century service and there nonchallant attitude, as if the have more than enough business than they can handle. Its not all about money, I want a quality helicopter no matter what size i buy. You always save in the long run!!!!!!!!!! Just check out the bergen web site on their test flights of their helis and you get a sense that they are into continuous improvement of their helis no matter what the size or shape.

[RAV50]

Wayne

There are six gassers in this area - all have been perfect flyers and low maintenance helis. And 4 of the six are flown relatively hard 3D every flight - no such failures. And in all, I would guess, they have a fleet time between 600 to 800 flights. So if there were any issues, I am sure they would have raised their ugly heads by now.

Two of these were purchased on e-bay, and both had some vibe issues - Why? Because both were very poorly assembled. It didn't take too long before the fellows who bought them had them purring like kittens. (I think one now has over 150 flights and just keeps on going smoothly with NO slop anywhere.)

I know the folks here on HF hate for anyone to mention the RR site, but there are a lot more Gasser drivers in the Gasser forum there, and the last poll showed that the Predator was by far (almost double the next competitor - if memory serves 68 to 37) the most prevailant, and no reports of such catastrophes.

So no, I do not think "the sky is falling" re: my Predator..

10 years ago, I bought one of the initial Century Falcon 46, as it was a very low priced heli and I needed a low cost one to learn 3D with. As I was mostly flying Minair X-Cell 60's at the time and found the design of the Falcon head to be just a smaller version of it, I thought why not. Man it was a POS relative to my other 50 sized heli (a TSK 46, which I must admit cost more then twice the price). So I was turned off the brand for many years and took every chance I had to let anyone who wanted to listen how bad I thought they were. Then a few years later, a flyer came to the field and convinced me to help him with his Raven 50. Man what a different animal that was. A great heli...and still not as good as their current version (which I have now).

Today at our field, there are many Hawk Pros, Raven 50's, Predator 90's and Predator Gassers....the brand that many of us, that have been in this hobby for years, and who got into the "popularity" of knocking Century (based on their product many years ago) have had our eyes opened.

I am glad I got the opportunity to be proven wrong. Because I used to be one of their major critics, For awhile, I had to spent a good deal of time "eating crow" from the Centurians at our field...but they all seemed to have forgiven my past beaking of the brand.

You are welcome to your prejudice re: Century. But I must admit, I have lost mine.

Believe me, we had more issues with our MinAirs and Raptors then we ever had with our Ravens or Predators.

[dave peers]

hi rav ! its mister conflicit from the uk !
i just HAVE to pass coment on some issues.
min air i am still flying my metal 60 and my metal 40 and my carbon GS they are stunning flyers so much so that my youngest son now 14 (will not reach 15 if he does not listen to advice) is learning to fly with my metal 60 set up soft i never ever have had any issues with my minairs either spares or set ups,however my pred condor (turbine conversion ) the setups are easy BUT spairs are an absolute nightmare of the highest magnitude my local stockist no longer stocks any cent glow or gas spares we have to go to cent uk for these and they cannot get enough stock,however the back up from the field rep coolice is brilliant its just a shame that we have to wait ,and wait, an wait for bits when you want to fly your pride and joy
***** over im off my soap box now and will go and sit in the corner quietly
hapy xmas to all our readers

[Dilbeck]

Man its hard to keep flying if you own a hawk pro ! Purchased some upgrades and 2 weeks later their here. Now the good part, ordered the full metal head conversion, just a box with the parts no instructions what so ever. I guess you wing it and if you make a mistake with just one washer and it crashes well they get to sell more parts except their out of stock most of the time. Started taking the plastic head apart to match up the way it was put togther but its not the same at all so i have 2 washers that dont fit anywhere on the head. (help please so i can get this upgrade done and traded in on a Bergen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)