HDX500se - motor? ESC?what else?

[lotus7]

I spool my new HDX500 up (standard 870Kv motor, standard Hobbywing Pentium 60A with built in UBEC - all as supplied by Helidirect) all smooth , then just after lift off and increasing HS , she looses power - checked the 4s battery , all at 3.84v -
Motor gets quite hot, all within 15 to 20 secs.
What can be the cause , faulty motor , faulty ESC , wrongly setup ESC ?
Any way I can check these individually?
Advice appreciated!!
:bawl

[papayankee]

Have you performed the "throttle range setting" with your emitter ?
Anyway I have a 3DX500 (same ESC & motor with 24T pinion) which became hot after a 3min flight with a 4S and remain cold after a 12min flight with a 3S.
A+

[lotus7]

Please speak English , I'm a newby!!
What is a throttle range check on emitter?
In any case , took the blades off and spun her for about 8 mins , playing with the sticks "3D style" i.e at all extremes , in betweens etc, no problems with powerloss . Also could not see any binding in the head at extremes and stirring the sticks vigorously. Motor quite touchable after that , battery evenly discharged . Seems only with load .

[Mikej]

Check that you do not have too much resistance in your drive train - pinion mesh not too tight (a very very slight amount on movement if you hold main gear and try to turn motor by hand), belt not too tight, belt only twisted 90 degrees (if more then will rub against itself inside the boom).

How long is your spin-down with the blades on ?

[lotus7]

Will have to check it , but spinning it by hand the Finless way gives at least 5 to 6 turns

[Stefan Breukel]

With my 500 exactly the same, motor is getting verry hot. I'm runnig it with my packs from the HDX 450, two together in series, Hi model 2200, 20c . The drive train is verry smooth. I hovered it today for 2 minutes, the motor verry hot and the packs puffed. They were almost stocked in the frame!!!!
My gascurve is now from 0 in the bottum to 60 in midstick ( now the 500 is hovering) is this to low?

[Mikej]

Mine is 0,90, 95, 95, 100 - the motor stays pretty cool (but I have only flown it in cold weather). I guess that there might be 2 reasons why mine runs cooler
* apparently brushless motors prefer running at higher, flatter revs
* by having a lower motor speed you will have to have more pitch on the blades to get equivalent lift, which will probably work your motor harder and make it run warmer

Whether or not this will make your motor run that much hotter I am not sure

[kgfly]

Stefan your throttle curve is way too low. You cannot limit headspeed using the throttle curve like that, just get a smaller pinion if that's what you want to achieve. Brushless ESCs and motors are inefficient at low throttle and certainly 60% is likely to cause heating problems. You should aim for nothing under 85% for continuous operation and over 90% is better.

[Stefan Breukel]

Thanks a lot HDX-ers, i was too gently with the headspeed. On the 450 i have it on 85% and on a King at 60%
I'll put it up to 90% and see what happens with the 500.

Thanks

[Rotorworkz]

I agree you cannot limit the motor by throttle curve if you want lower head speed lower pinion tooth count. Also on this size heli make flat line throttle curves such a 85% on all points etc...."V" curves are for nitros, electrics don't work like that

Your motor,ESC and packs will thank you for it!

[John Heli]

One more hint: The original motor is overloeaded with 6s, aus you said you fly 2 3s-packs in serial. You can use them in parallel to double capacity. I have done this with 24-tooth gear and the heli is very smooth to fly, perfect for a beginner.

[lotus7]

Feedback-
I fitted a new ESC ( same Hobbywing Pentium 60A) - After setting up the ESC , including throttle range ( I know now how to do it!) Spun her up and the same symptom. Check my TC - was linear 0,25,50, 75,100,
Following MIKEJ and Kgfly advice , I first upped it to 0,50,75,85,100
Again she baulked down after initial spool up and take off, but as she went to the mid (75) setting she cleared her throat and spun freely. I upped it 0,65,80,90, 100
and just a hint once - now TC set 0,75,90,85,100 and I hovered out two 4s lipos , about 7 - 7:30 mins each. She definitely sounds sweet and reacted very nicely to cyclic , ( at low level)
So , for now it seems as if high headspeed is the answer - Thanks MikeJ, Kgfly and Charley
Will report back after more flight time

[lotus7]

Sorry - typo!
Curve is now at 0,75,90,95,100

[lotus7]

Swopped the motor out with a Hyperion HP-H3025-10
Can now fly with a TC 0.50,75,85,100 TC
Same as a fellow owner with the BM 850 motor that came with stanadrd with the kit. Must have been something duff in my BM850

[Rotorworkz]

What is your settings on the ESC
What is your pitch curve
How much pitch do you have
Were does your heli hover (what stick postion) this is needed to determine throttle to pitch ratio
What head speed are you trying to achieve

I have that same motor and love it shown in this video
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=52625

Also I have that same ESC and really like it

[lotus7]

Charley , thanks for the response

my ESC settings are
Brakes - off
BAttery- Lipo -Megapower 4s1p 15c 3600mAh
Cutoff- reduce power
cutoff threshold - high
start up- super soft
timing - medium
Pitch +10 /-10
Pitch curve =linear 0,25,50,75,100
With BM850 motor - on 0,75,85,90,100 TC - about 55% stick
Have not checked with hyperion motor but about 65% , also have not checked headspeed with a tacho yet

I do believe I have a problem with the BM850 - will open it and check for loose magnets, any other visual faults .

[Rotorworkz]

Lotus,

This is my thoughts your pack has a low 15 C rating which is causing your motor to be starved for power which causes excess heat. From what I read your are a new pilot right? You have no need for a 3D head speed so either reduce the pinion size by 2+ teeth to reduce load on motor and Head speed or upgrade to a 25c pack.

Below is a Eagle tree graph of a 25C pack taken while I fly. Its kind of hard to see but you may notice the amp draws from that flight Max peek amp draw was 93 amps and average was 38 amps

Your 15C pack is rated Max continuous amp draw of 54 amps. Hovering tends to draw more amps. I am just guessing here but your possible amp draw may be around 45 amps in a hover

This is a possibility you can try change throttle curve to 0,75,90,100,100 if you are running the stock 24t pinion this will give a high head speed. Also may consider reducing mid range (hover pitch) to allow higher head speed for throttle /motor efficiency. But I highly recommend reducing pinion size to accommodate your new pilot flying skills then when you are ready bump up the C rating on your pack and turn your 500 into a 3D monster :)

Please keep us updated

[lotus7]

Thanks again Charley
Yes , I am a nooby and still hover a lot. The problem though was with full batteries and within 30 secs of startup. i.e as soon as I got into a hover. I'll try the Hyperion motor tonight at our indoor cycling stadium venue - Massive indoor hall! I will also up the TC as you sugessted - yesterday she was hovering for about 5 mins with the Hyperion with no signs of bogging and motor not very hot . I do believe the BM850 has a problem somewhere

[Rotorworkz]

Yes you could be right, We at Helidirect would like to make sure you are taken care of so please let me know your findings
As I am eager to know

Thanks for your patience

[lotus7]

Charley
All fine with the new Hyperion , no overheating , ESC not hot, got in 2 x 8mins battery time , mainly hovering, getting used to the heli. Absolutely no glitches- Heli very stable , less "nervous" than my HDX450.
So far, so good!!!
Thanks for your feedback and encouragement!