New To The Hobby - 1st Heli Advice

[HeatSurge]

Hi everyone,

I recently purchased one of those little Chinese infrared picco-z knockoffs from buy.com (called "performer" in case anyone wants one :)) and have been happily zipping around my living room for a week now. I have had an interest in RC craft for a long time; it had died down a bit, but since I got that small heli, it has kind of revived in force.

I have never had a helicopter before, but I'm looking into getting into electrics. I'm a university student and want to keep the size/accessories to the minimum for now...

I was glad to see that the hobby has kind of really started booming the last few years. The last time I really browsed around RC websites in depth was 4 years ago and I determined it might be a little too expensive to get into. It doesn't seem so now, I'm not sure why. Perhaps there are more spare parts at a cheaper price / cheaper helis or something...

Anyway, the first thing I did was I ordered a flight sim. I want to really be very very confident regarding stick movements and orientation before I even attempt to hover a real heli. I have been practicing almost every night for a week on ClearView. That's what I chose; I figured even though it's somewhat limited in capability, it's good enough to get me to learn basic orientation and to experiment with / perfect maneuvers before I actually try them in real life. I have been practicing with thumbs on the sticks of a logitech rumble gamepad (ps2 style) controller. I found the esky usb controller for $13 online and I'm waiting for that to arrive to practice "pincher style" on ClearView which is what I will make myself learn, because I personally think it would offer greater precision, at the expense of "twitch" speed. I kind of tried it with the logitech but the sticks just aren't made for pinching. It seems like it would feel great when I get the esky.

I have been looking at helis to purchase as well, which is really what this thread is all about. I've been reading some about components and set-up, and I really believe I would be best served with an as-large-size-as-possible, brushless motor heli, with a heading hold gyro.

I know some people might recommend "go with a fixed-pitch" to start with, but I figure the collective pitch can do pretty much what the FP can do, but probably better anyway. Moreover, I am probably going to get bored with the FP eventually and will end up buying a CP so why not do that from the beginning. Good FPs are about the same ballpark as a CP anyhow...

Models that I'm currently considering are:
Belt-CP
Honey Bee King 2
Falcon 3D
Blade CP Pro

I was initially swaying towards the Falcon 3D because it comes with a heading hold gyro and a brushless motor already installed, and have read that it's very stable and flies well, but have read a lot about problems with the ESC and motor it comes with, and it seems like parts availability is not that amazing and they cost a bit more than the parts for the other models above.

I am currently most likely going to go for the Belt-CP. It seems like the stock setup is pretty nice and parts availability is excellent, but it will require me to spend another $40 or more for a HH gyro which is annoying and brings the cost up. It is also the largest of the 4 helis (rotor size) which I like. It should translate to less "twitch" reactions required to keep it under control, even though I am well aware that the micro helis are pretty difficult to fly no matter what.

The HBK2 seems like a cheap nice heli, but it will require a brushless/HH upgrade as well which brings it to the same price as a Belt-CP which will offer me more durability anyway (with the belt drive and all) I think.

The Blade CP Pro looked good as well, but it's more expensive and I can't quite figure out why, because it needs a HH upgrade as well.

I looked at the new Blade 400 too, but the price is more than I'm willing to pay right now. That puts something like the T-Rex way out of the range too. I know a lot of people say "do it right the first time or buy twice" but for me, I think I will be perfectly satisfied with the capabilities of a cheap CP heli with a junk RTF package radio.

I want to learn hovering, forward flight and perfect orientation skills on something like that first, and then make the costly plunge to a Spektrum DX7 and a t-rex or even a .50 or something with all the bling.

I would appreciate any input. At this point, I am not willing to spend more than $250 as an initial investment and would like a spare battery (ideally 2 spares) as well in that price.

I am also planning on spending heavy simulation time, as opposed to real flying, until I can basically fly the sim with my eyes closed kind of thing, in idle-up off (no 3d). Then, I will start learning to hover on the real thing. I am going to take it very slow on the field too. I really want to keep the cost (due to crashes) as low as possible. I guess that puts some weight on the durability of the stock components for the above helis too. Please consider that for your recommendations.

Could I get some comments?

Thank you in advance!

P.S. I'd love to hear where you think would be a good place to buy my heli as well. I'm looking for as cheap as possible, but as I have read, good RMA support in case the heli is faulty (which is not uncommon at all) is also nice. I'd appreciate links to any "for sale" deals too.

[Gimbal Lock]

Welcome to the 'Freak, Heat Surge!

You are off to a good start with the sim.

Since you are in school, and your funds and time are going to be tight, I'd advise you hit the sim hard (as you said). Fly it until you are really comfortable with whatever size birds feel the best to the way you want to fly.

Doing that will give you a good idea of the capabilities and limitations of everything from coaxials all the way to gassers, and you'll be likely to have a better idea of what you're going to want a year from now.


Most importantly------Go to a fun fly in your area!

Meeting the locals, and seeing what's involved will also help you figure out which way to go.


What I;m driving at is be patient, use the sim time to set money aside so that you can have a better idea of the heli you really want and just not buy what you can afford right off the bat.

[HeatSurge]

Well, playing around in the sim, I've figured that collective pitch is the way to go for me. Coaxials just seem boring to me already, even after only playing with them in the sim; they seem rather sluggish and I really don't like the way they look.

2 rotors on top of each other? Pretty ugly :Fan

I think a lot of people go coaxial and enjoy them if they do not practice on a sim; they seem very very forgiving of bad sticks and slow responses, so people probably learn hovering/orientation etc. on them. I can do that stuff on the sim and just get used to the "feel" and response of my actual heli when I already have the brain and motor skills down for the sticks.

As far as size goes, the nitros sure feel nice with all the power and response, but as I said the cost and engine maintenance involved is way more than I can handle right now. If I had unlimited funds, a .50 or a .90 surely would be the way to go, no question about it.

The T-Rex model they have is pretty nice and jumpy too, but compared to the CP Pro model they have it's not that dramatic of an "improvement" especially when I know I won't be doing hard 3d for probably quite a while, and again considering the price over the micro RTFs. When I get to a point where I can roll and loop comfortably and fly upside down and do tail-forward slides, then I can probably start thinking about something bigger. That moment may not come for months or years even.

I understand that having a bigger heli is easier to fly and easier to see etc., but I'm prepared for a twitchy little birdie to struggle on. I'm pretty stubborn when it comes to that kind of stuff... I think. And I figure, if I learn to fly that, flying larger/better helis will be even easier in the future.

The other thing is, I kind of want something NOW :YeaBaby:. I just want something real to play with as well as the sim. I've been making pretty good progress and I just want the enjoyment of the real thing... so rather than deferring to purchase a T-Rex or a nitro 2 years from now, I figured I'd buy what I can, and repair as much as possible if/when I crash. The current micro helis seem to offer pretty good performance anyway, especially for what I'd need to start out with.

I'll definitely look for a fun fly in my area, but it's winter now and people are probably not flying much outdoors... there's snow all over the place. I'll try to find if there's anything happening near. I haven't gone to the LHS either, but I kind of feel like it's a bit pointless because I don't necessarily want to purchase anything from them anyway, at least right away, and they'll probably be all over me as a potential new customer... even though it probably would be nice to visit. I like to research things online / read stuff in books before I talk to live people anyway... I learn better that way too.

I haven't checked for clubs in the area either. I will do that too and go check them out sometime soon.

Thank you for the response!

Anyone else care to chime in?

[Pinecone]

Many ways to do it, but, IMO< the best way is to save up and get a GOOD heli to start. You can screw around with the all in one box helis, but in the long run, you will end up in the 450 or 500 class with a a mix of stuff. The one bax helis come with compromises in gear to make a price point. People with them, find over time they spend more in upgrades than if they got a better heli up front. But they are tempting.

The Trex 450 is a proven performer, with lots of support online an dlocally, both parts and help. There are other helis that are as good or even better, but the Trex leads in the support area.

The 500 sized helis are a bit larger and thus more stable and easier to fly. The Trex 500 is new to the market and probably not the way to go for a begiiner right now, but give it a few months. There are other good choices in this size range also.

Your choice, but you can buy once, or buy twice.

[loiphin]

Go for a Trex 450. You will quickly outgrow any cheaper heli's, and the 450 is a good balance between performance and cost.

I went through the same thing as what you are intending on doing, and I am most pleased that I went for a Trex 450 and Phoenix simulator. Its a bit of a hit on the wallet initially, but I am sure you will save in the long run.

loiphin.

[Gimbal Lock]

I feel your pain, my brother. I'm a "want it all- now"kinda guy too! But listen to what Pinecone an loiphin are saying.

The Trex may not feel like much of an improvement on the sim, but there really, honestly is a very big difference in the quality and lack of slop of it's rotorhead and the RTF one box helis.

From reading here, and hearing what pilots have said face to face, I've seen many one box helis end up costin' at least what it would to have gotten a rex or thundertiger 450size from the get go.

Just this time last year, I was convinced that I was gonna start with a HelimaxAXE CP.
Then I came here.

None of us want to tell you what to do, but we do want you to get off to a good solid start. Whichever way you choose to go, please read up on the choices before buying, just to get an idea of what it'll really cost to learn on that heli.

Happy Holidays,
Gimbal Lock

[HeatSurge]

Well, thanks for the advice, even though it's a bit discouraging :(

How about the idea of buying a Falcon 3D, and upgrading parts as they fail/break (due to crashes or mechanical)? There are CNC and performance parts for the whole heli available from hobby-lobby or elsewhere, and it should be cross-compatible as far as electronics go, from what I understand.

At worst, I will end up with an upgraded Falcon 3D, which might not perform quite as good as a trex 450, but it should still be considerably good; I think that route will still cost less than building a Trex and buying a good radio right off the bat. I am not planning on breaking too many parts, and at least half of the original parts should hold for a while (half in terms of cost). It seems like the head assembly might be one that could break or become generally loose and crappy over time, perhaps the tail assembly as well, and of course - the servos (which will be annoying because they cost a lot to replace and I might actually wait to buy a radio that comes with servos if I end up stripping them or if they stop working)...

If I'm going to buy a radio, I don't want to get anything less than a Spektrum DX7, and that is $200 alone, which is rather discouraging in itself, at least to start off with... not such a big problem along the way.

The thing is, I am well aware that what I'm getting is lacking in quality, and I don't think that will discourage me from the hobby or give me a bad experience per se. If I take it out and the ESC burns in mid-air, I will simply suck it in, and get a new one, as well as make the other necessary repairs/upgrades. I can deal with it the best I can, and I think I will have great fun flying initially (hopefully) and as things break, I will slowly learn more and get more practical experience with the mechanical/electronics aspects of the heli, as opposed to the initial set-up required on the Trex. Perhaps along the way, I will get a nice programmable radio and learn about mixing and curves and all that, and then maybe purchase a nitro and go all-in the hobby. That's the plan anyway...

I don't know... I guess I'm rationalizing somewhat over getting something now. Like I said though, looking at parts and cost for things, it seems like even if I have to replace a lot on the Falcon, I might be better off than the Trex, in terms of cost... I realize performance will still be somewhat average.

Of course, like everyone is saying - I know that if I get the good quality stuff right now, it will cost less over the long-term, because I will likely end up purchasing that anyway after throwing money in to repair the junk on the stock Falcon, but considering the flying and learning time I will get with the cheap stuff in the meantime, I think it's worth it.

I could turn around and sell it on ebay in the end to recover some cost, or reuse some of the parts in another build too.

The more I think about the whole thing, the more it seems like it is a lot like the dilemma over purchasing a bicycle that I went through 2 years ago now. I had almost the exact same choice as now: purchase a front-suspension, quality components bicycle from a LBS (local bike shop), or purchase a wal-mart "full-suspension" POS.

I thought about it, and went ahead with the Wal-mart POS. It was (and still is) a POS indeed; it required adjustment for the brakes and the gears and some lubrication from the start, but I got it going well and was pretty happy with it. Eventually, somebody stole the front wheel, so I bought a new one + a disc rotor pretty cheaply on ebay (they have worked flawlessly since). I replaced the tires because of that too, and of course I had to get a new front tube so I got two with slime just in case. Over time, the bottom bracket started wobbling and grinding more and more. I rode it like that for a while until it wasn't tolerable anymore, and eventually had a LBS replace it with another reasonably good quality one for pretty cheap. Then, the back wheel broke a couple of spokes (I like to "abuse" it by jumping off / riding on to sidewalks and taking sharp turns etc.) and I almost fell as it locked into the frame, distorted. I pushed the bike home slowly, and then had the LBS replace the back wheel as well, which was also pretty cheap.

Overall, I probably spent about the same as if I had purchased a better-quality LBS bike from the beginning, even with replacing the stolen tire included. The huge difference is that the cost was spread over two years, and not paid up-front! I still have a ride-able (albeit rusting) bicycle which serves my purposes, even though I don't take it on the trails or use it for competitions or anything like that. I estimate it will work reasonably well for another two years to get me through school completely, with minimal repairs (knock on wood). I could even sell it for really cheap, but still sell it at the end too! I think if I had purchased the better-quality LBS bike, I would have had close to the same utility value as my current one. Is my current one more heavy? You bet. Is it as comfortable as the LBS one? No, but I don't really care to be honest; it's easily fixable with a $20 saddle purchase from wal-mart, but I never ride long enough for it to become really annoying. The cost of purchasing and using a LBS bicycle would've been the same, if not (much?) higher, considering what the costs would have been had I had to replace the stolen front wheel, or repair other possible mechanical failures. Even though it would've been a quality bicycle, I am very certain that repairs would have still been necessary. Hey, I even had fun getting and installing new stuff on my bike and I learned a thing or two!

I see a lot of analogy with the RC helicopter thing that I'm going through right now, and I'm sorry to disappoint you guys, but I'm leaning towards getting a falcon... call me crazy or stupid but that's that.

I'll still get a couple of nights' sleep over the issue and maybe order on Monday if I still feel like it.

[Gimbal Lock]

Heat, that's cool.

We all choose to go about things differently, and what works for one guy may not be the best for the next.

You'll enjoy whatever heli you choose, welcome to the addiction!
Come back and let us know what ya decide.

[HeatSurge]

What the heck!? I was looking at another forum and I came accross this:
The new Blade 400 for $339.61 + shipping at https://www.diversionhobbies.com/

Is this... real?! I think I will have to order immediately... Higher quality everything and a larger heli for just $100 more? Thank you very much!

I hope they don't cancel orders and raise the price.

[hamslice]

i have seen the blade 400 fly at ircha. it seemed to handle very well, but eflight parts are not known for their quality and price. it is very hard to beat align in parts quality and price. jmho

[HeatSurge]

Well it's probably far better than a falcon 3d, that's for sure. Not to mention the DX6i.

[JasonJ]

Well it's probably far better than a falcon 3d, that's for sure. Not to mention the DX6i.

I have a Falcon 3D, and would recommend the Blade 400 over the Falcon any day. The Falcon isn't a terrible helicopter, and it's parts are less expensive than the Blade 400, but the Falcon requires a pilot who likes to tinker to get past it's shortcomings. Also, the Falcon is not capable of the same level of 3D as the Blade 400. The biggest drawback of the Falcon is it's transmitter. Many who have bought this had glitching issues that ended up being a tx issue. I bought a Futaba tx early on, and only used the stock tx a handful of times. Another drawback of the stock Falcon tx is there is very little adjustment.

The Blade comes with a good tx that you could grow more models into, and you have the ability to adjust a wide array of parameters. If the Falcon was sold for $129 without a tx, it would be a great value. As it is, it is selling for around $229, and since the tx is not great, you end up spending more money on a good tx. A good tx is vital for the Falcon, it flies like a totally different helicopter with a good tx. Once you buy that good tx, you just spent more money than if you bought a Blade 400.

Whatever you decide, do NOT buy a helicopter that has a separate electric tail motor. You will endure the seven layers of hell as soon as you open the box.

My recommendation, sim it and save your cash for a good helicopter. If you are considering the Blade 400, keep reading the posts from those who have bought one. They are so new that there isn't enough info on long term reliability. In the end, you would be best served with a high quality 450 class helicopter, but dropping $1200 is daunting for a beginner. Buying a turd and spending $1200 on it trying to keep it flying sucks even worse.

[HeatSurge]

Thanks for the info, Jason. I didn't know about the widespread tx problems. With that in mind, I'm leaning towards the Blade 400 a LOT, especially at ~$360. That website sucks though. I can't even place an order :bomb: Hopefully they'll fix it or I'll call them after christmas to do it manually if possible. Let's hope that the deal is still up.

Edit: Nevermind, after clicking through a thousand of annoying logins, I was able to finish the order (what a pain). Now, let's hope they actually ship on Jan 10th.

Whatever you decide, do NOT buy a helicopter that has a separate electric tail motor. You will endure the seven layers of hell as soon as you open the box.

That's what I read... they seem to like to burn, sometimes along with other electronics (which I'm sure is lots of "fun" in mid-air). And that's why I think the Blade CP Pro is a very bad idea. I don't know why it seems to be so popular. :thumbdown:

[Pinecone]

The Blade 400 looks nice. See the threads in the Main Section on it. But it also looks like you need to do a proper setup on it to get it flying right.

Realise you WILL crash and you WILL break parts.

And you cannot imagine how much better a good heli flies versus a not so good one. I f you read the threads on the Blade CP you will see LOTS of people telling you how great they are. The funny thing is, VERYONE who has had a Balde and a Trex will tell you how crappy the Blade is. The others aren't lying, they just have no point of reference.

Like your bike, if you had only ridden the WalMart POS you would thing it was fine, until you actually tried a really nice one.

But in this hobby, it does pay off in the long run to take your time, save some money and buy PROPERLY first.

A bad heli WILL discourage you if everytime you fly, you crash and have to spend $50 or so to fix it and wait for a week (or longer) for parts.

Make your choice, but remember, we told you so. :)

And BTW there is a free sim in the Trex 450 section. :) And it is MUCH better than FMS.

[HeatSurge]

The Blade 400 looks nice. See the threads in the Main Section on it. But it also looks like you need to do a proper setup on it to get it flying right.

I realize that. I think it's ridiculous to think that helis don't require adjustment out of the box if it says "rtf." I plan on reading the manual and other pre-flight guides in detail, and learning about all aspects of the heli. Additionally, I will make sure blade grips are tight, that blades track right, that bolts are tight etc. first thing, before even spooling up. (well for tracking you kinda have to). That aspect of the hobby (set-up/electronics/mechanical) is not a deterrent to me, and in fact sounds very exciting.


Realise you WILL crash and you WILL break parts.


I do realize that. I just want to minimize crashes by heavy practice on the sim first. I have read posts by people on forums where they have had hundreds of flights, and they have only crashed due to mechanical or bad set-ups. That's what I'm going for; it will be rather disappointing to crash from bad sticks after practicing on the sim so much. I'm not planning on doing anything crazy; what I'm trying to "have down well" on the sim is hovering in any direction (tail, nose, sides-in, and intermediate positions) and transition to / forward flight. Then, I can try to take them to the heli. Any other maneuvers will be practiced to death on the sim before attempted in real life (side-flight, tail-forward flight, inverted flight etc.).


And BTW there is a free sim in the Trex 450 section. :) And it is MUCH better than FMS.

I am not using FMS, I'm using ClearView. I haven't checked out the new free one, but people say it's nice. I just about threw up when I checked out FMS for the first time. The flight model just seemed WAAAAY too easy. ClearView feels much more twitchy and harder to fly (which is good and the most important aspect of the sim as far as I'm concerned), and the graphics are more tolerable. I'm not sure how "realistic" it really is - I'm sure flying in the real world is even more chaotic, but it will give me plenty of good practice.

FMS - forget about it.

I'll check out the new one though; thanks for the tip. Maybe practice on both ClearView and that...

Overall, thanks for the info. I think the Blade 400 will provide me much enjoyment at reasonable quality (especially with possible metal upgrades as I break stuff), and it's much less than a trex. I think I'll be able to put up with its shortcomings very happily. I just hope they really ship them at $360 from diversionhobby :thumbup: