Charger question for Kenneth

[garykalra]

Hi Kenneth,

Based on your suggestions for the chargers in http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=51780 I have decided that i would like to get the best charger i can. So in this regard i have set aside around $400 for the charger. After doing a bit of reading, the following is the order i have come out with for getting the charger. Please advice based on any new updates you might have.

1. eStation 902 + 2x PB6 6S balancers
This is something i would wish to have but really gets a lot expensive when compared to the Hyperion 1210i-A. Considering the price $270 (Charger) + $110 (2 balancers) at http://www.rcaccessory.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=34 and http://www.rcaccessory.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=191 I am not sure if it has an edge over the Hyperion 1210i-A. Please suggest.

2. Hyperion 1210i-A + 2xLBA10 6S balancer
Package available for $225 at http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=2787

3. ThunderPower 1010 + 210V balancer
Available for $270 at http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/NS.ThunderPower.TP1010C.Charger1.php Like the fact that the firmware is upgradable at our end but it is limited till 10S.

After reading Carsen's thread of setting up 12S A123 for TRex 600, i feel that the hyperion should be a good buy, since for all the three above, we have to buy the external power supply which further adds to the cost.

Please suggest on the power supply to buy specially the wattage that would be required. For 2-3 months my requirements would be for a TRex 450 after which i would jump over to TRex500 and later in 2008 end up with TRex600.

Thanks
Gary

[Pinecone]

Don't forget, the FMA CellPro 10S is also coming, and I was told by the company that 6S version is not dead. So a couple of Cell Pro 6S chargers might be the perfect solution, and a lowish cost.

And get a Cell Pro 4S for now.

As for power supply, for a 12S 5000mAH pack, you need a power supply capable of at least 250 watts (21 amps at 12 volts), but 300 watts would be better (25 amps). This for 1C charge rates. If you want to do higher C charges, you would need to multiply those figures by the C rate (2C charge requires min 21 x 2 = 42 amps).

Now these rating can be peak or surge rating, as for most of the charge the amp draw is less. It is just as the charger is nearing the end of hte Constant Current phase that the amp draw hits these peaks.

[RC Accessory]

Hi Kenneth,

Based on your suggestions for the chargers in http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=51780 I have decided that i would like to get the best charger i can. So in this regard i have set aside around $400 for the charger. After doing a bit of reading, the following is the order i have come out with for getting the charger. Please advice based on any new updates you might have.

1. eStation 902 + 2x PB6 6S balancers
This is something i would wish to have but really gets a lot expensive when compared to the Hyperion 1210i-A. Considering the price $270 (Charger) + $110 (2 balancers) at http://www.rcaccessory.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=34 and http://www.rcaccessory.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=191 I am not sure if it has an edge over the Hyperion 1210i-A. Please suggest.

2. Hyperion 1210i-A + 2xLBA10 6S balancer
Package available for $225 at http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?cPath=9&products_id=2787

3. ThunderPower 1010 + 210V balancer
Available for $270 at http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/NS.ThunderPower.TP1010C.Charger1.php Like the fact that the firmware is upgradable at our end but it is limited till 10S.

After reading Carsen's thread of setting up 12S A123 for TRex 600, i feel that the hyperion should be a good buy, since for all the three above, we have to buy the external power supply which further adds to the cost.

Please suggest on the power supply to buy specially the wattage that would be required. For 2-3 months my requirements would be for a TRex 450 after which i would jump over to TRex500 and later in 2008 end up with TRex600.

Thanks
Gary

All 3 chargers are good, but have very different features and quality, hence the price differences.

For example, the e-Station PB-6's have the highest bleed rate of 500 mah which is really what you want if you are using high capacity batteries. As an example, the Hyperion LBA10 has 120 mah bleed rate.

I would recommend that you read the manuals of each and look at it feature by feature.

[istandalone]

man i wish that the manufacturers of chargers/balancers would just include a mid-level power supply with the products. or just build one into the charger. the cost would not go up too much, and it would be so much more conveinient.

[Pinecone]

But then every charger you buy would be a bit heavier and cost more.

And I prefer 12 volt since I can use a car battery at the field.

[th3tick]

Pinecone's right. I've got two Cellpro 4s and a TP-1010 hanging off a single PS. One plug to the wall, and three packs charging. I just have to watch my wattage draw, but since I'm doing only 6S max so far, it works fine.

[Pinecone]

I just added a Team Integy power panel and am running 2x CellPro, 1010C and Triton2 off my Mastech 3030 power supply.

[th3tick]

I just added a Team Integy power panel and am running 2x CellPro, 1010C and Triton2 off my Mastech 3030 power supply.

I use that thing too for distribution, but one thing about it concerns me. have you ever opened it up and looked how it's wired inside? Little thin bare aluminum (I think) wires all over. I've wondered if that's enough metal to carry the current...

OTOH, I've never had a problem using it.

John

[istandalone]

i guess if i owned a good power supply i would be singing a different song...i guess i'll be hacking up my old desktop comp to make one soon. then again, the mrc superbrain 977 comes with one, 10amp 12v i think. that should be good enough for pretty much any charger, right?

[Pinecone]

I have a MRC 959 that is direct to wall. HEAVY. :)

[kgfly]

G'Day Gary,

I've been away (and offline) for a couple of weeks with the family so missed your post and PM.

Firstly I agree with Evan that it is worthwhile downloading the manuals for each of the candidates and reading them to get a feel for the features and the menu system. I have found the eStation user interface (BC6) slightly more intuitive than the Hyperion (0610i) that I have used but once you become familiar with them, both are fine. The trendy blue LCD used on the Hyperion chargers is IMO harder to read than the clear yellow/grey ones on the eStation chargers but again, it's more of a niggling item than a big deal.

The FMAdirect Cellpro10s has been announced and at USD$190 is great value for a dedicated 300W 2s-10s LiXx charger. Likely to be safe, simple and fast I think it is very appealling. Being LiXx only it is less flexible than the multichemistry candidates. However, like the TP1010, you are limited to 10s so in the long run, one would not be enough for running a T600 on A123 if you want to charge 12s or bigger packs. Of course with a 15-20min charge time you could certainly start off with one, charging split 12s packs as two 6s and still be a lot faster turn-around than with a single 6s lipo. Later, assuming you have 600W of DC power available, you could run two CP10s in parallel to really get things moving.

The other option to consider is the new Hyperion 0610iDuo. Essentially two 0610i in one box and with a 360W/10A output rating (compared to 500W/10A for two 0610iNET networked together). As far as I can tell from the manual, this very convenient setup will NOT do single packs over 6s, but most folk doing 10s and above recommend using split packs, so this will get you to 12s A123 at about an 8A charge rate. And the integrated balancer is 300mA. http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/eos/

I am a big fan of integrated balance chargers. Having had both separate charger/balancer and integrated units, in the future I will always choose an integrated one if it has the features I need.

Bantam/eStation are supposed to be coming out with some new models this year as are Maxpro. The competition is hot and the standards are high, which is great for us as consumers. So as Pinecone suggests, you wouldn't go far wrong getting a Cellpro4s for now ($75) and waiting to see how the charger market evovles over the next few months. The Cellpro4s is great for a 450-class heli and will never go astray.

However, of the three you list I would probably choose the 1210iA+2xLBA10 setup as the best balance of features, flexibility and price. I know several people personally with this setup and they are all very happy with it. Mind you, everyone I know with an e902 is happy too (I'm not helping, am I ;) )

The e902+2xPB6 is perhaps a bit better in a few small ways and if money was no object would be my preference of those three. It is streets ahead if, for example, you anticipate doing discharge tests to measure battery capacity (few do though). However, value-for-money the 1210iA comes out ahead. I believe that the latest version of the LBA10 has been upgraded to 300mA discharge but cannot say for sure. Be sure to double check that you are being supplied with the A123 version of both the 1210i (it is the 1210i-A version) and of the LBA10 balancers. By now I would expect all the current stock to be these versions but someone might still have some of the older stock.

The TP1010 has the edge on power, and hence will charge A123 packs faster, which is a key advantage, but being limited to 10s will mean getting a second one for the T600 (you can fly a T600 on 10s A123 for learning but really need 12s-14s for strong performance).

Whatever you buy, I bet it won't be your last or only charger. This game is moving too fast with both the battery technology and the charger technology.

As for a power supply there are lots of options. Get the most powerful unit you can afford that makes sense. Given we are entering an era of 250-500W chargers it makes sense to get a hefty supply. Given you interest in A123 and T600 I would say you need the ability to charge at least one 6s A123 pack at 10A, That need about 200W output power so 250W input power. At a minimum 12V/20A but 13.8V/25A would be better. As a guideline, to be able to run your charger at its maximum output power you will need a DC supply rated at about 1.25 times the output power rating of the charger. Also, most of the new generation high-power chargers will not be able to deliver their maximum output with only a 12V input supply (the input stages get overloaded by the high currents). For example all the Hyperion chargers over 200W specify a 15V supply to operate at full power. For this reason consider getting at least a 13.8V supply but 15V would be better.

[csell]

Hello Gary.

When Kgfly explain, I always got a better understanding of the options. Thanks Kenneth.


After reading Carsen's thread of setting up 12S A123 for TRex 600, i feel.......


I have been waiting the last couple of days for more information on the new FMA CellPro 10S before I wanted to answer you, now we know its price and specification.

First I will ask what you have considered after the 12S A123 T-Rex 600?

Today I se two different routes after a 12S A123 T-Rex 600 and your choice of charger may depend on wich one you prefer.

If you are the type that consider 2 x 5S lipo, then you need 1 or 2 chargers for max 6S A123 or lipo.

If you more like the idea to increase the numer of a123 cells, then 2 times 6S ( A123 or Lipo ) is out of the questen and I recomend 2 pcs 10 Amps chargers with a combined max of min 16S. That can be 6S + 10S
or if you prefer 2 equal chargers 2 pcs min 8S.

As I see the T-Rex 600 with A123 will we in 2008 se pilots try number of cell in the 16-20 range.

Regards Carsten.