TRex 450 SE nV2 to 500E Makeover ...

[DA54]

There is always one on e-bay if you do a search for KZ0820105A

When that one sells, he lists another one

[Snarf]

But, if you want to do extreme maneuvers, then consider installing the RC-Tek Rotor (http://www.rc-tek.com/us_store/index.html) head, is has a over slung flybar. Comes in anodized red, blue, or gray.

Was a worry for me too so I have bit the bullet and ordered an RC-Tek rotor head. Should arrive later this week. They ship to the UK regularly and the dollar rate makes the price very keen LOL. It looks amazingly like the SE V2 head but with the minimum mods to exchange the position of the flybar and the rotor head. I ordered a pack of spare main shafts too (just in case) as I guess these won't be Align compatible.

41336

[sb930]

Here's a few photo's of my red tailed Align fuselage:

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3398.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3407.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3417.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3410.jpg

Incorporated much of what's already been discussed, but did a few things differently too. Instead of using epoxy to attach the skids, I used silicon which gives the gear a little wiggle room and should also allow me to pull them out more easily for repair/replacement. Clear silicon was also used to affix the windows.

Tail servo was hung down low using some pieces of printed circuit board:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3341-1.jpg

I boxed in the plywood spacers and then attached them using hex head bolts mating into t-nuts (blind nuts).
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3384.jpg

For the back spacer, I drilled a 1/4" hole on each side of the fuselage to insert a long handled hex wrench to reach the bolts:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3388.jpg

To fill the holes, a small 1/4" plastic plug is used which works nicely to conceal the holes:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3392.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3393.jpg

I was able to move the elevator servo WAY inside the frame using some aluminum spacers which allowed me to move the mechanics farther back into the fuse. With this configuration, the balance seems very close with an EvoLite 2500 lipo and no additional weights. If you look at the tail, there is about 5mm of boom showing between the tail block and fuse:
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3437.jpg

I didn't take any pictures of the elevator servo installation before installing the mechanics, but will snap a few next time I pull it apart if anyone is interested.

Four packs of hovering so far and it seems very stable (and suprisingly quiet). I just built and started flying the T-Rex a week ago (coming from a little blade CX2), so will likely take of the scale fuse for awhile so my flying skills catch-up. With the pod & boom I had about 15-16 flights under my belt and felt comfortable hovering in any upright orientation and making slow forward flight.

Motor, battery & ESC are much warmer after flight with the scale fuse. I had been flying two packs in a row with the pod & boom and the motor and ESC were barely warm to the touch. Now after one pack with the scale fuse, the motor and ESC are fairly hot. I can touch then for about 4-5secs before having to pull my finger off. Shooting a Fluke infared thermometer at them right after flight gives readings of approx 135-140F which doesn't seem too bad?

Flight times for hover are right at 9mins which adds 2000mA back into the EvoLite 2500's (80%). This is only down about 1min from what I was getting before adding the fuse.

Cheers!

[Snoopy6]

Here's a few photo's of my red tailed Align fuselage:

I didn't take any pictures of the elevator servo installation before installing the mechanics, but will snap a few next time I pull it apart if anyone is interested.



VERY VERY NICE!

I, for one, would like to see the installation of your elevator servo.

Joe

[CT4]

sb930
Very nice build. The temps you quote are about right, as you have glazed in the rear window. The newer T Rex has a fan built in to the main gear this should help with heat if you are running that if not it would be a worthwhile upgrade. What head speed are you running? and is there any vibration in your tail assembely?

[sb930]

The mechanics are a new SEv2, so I'm running the dark blue main gear with the fan. Did another full 9min hover in normal mode and temps were a little higher at around 175F.

No vibration to speak of... I'm amazed at how smooth everything is. My head speed is quite low, but I don't have a tach. Running a 11T Revo pinion and Normal mode throttle curve is 0,20,45,63,100. Hovering is right at 3/4 stick.

Have also spent a little time in IdleUp1 which has a throttle curve of 90, 85, 80, 85, 100.

It's funny that I seemed to prefer IdleUp when flying with the pod & boom, but like Normal mode better with the scale fuselage installed?

In Normal mode the thing is spooky quiet...

[Eaglespirit]

I just got the RCMachines ScaleOheli yellow and purple fuse...I drive a 93 GMC 1500 painted bright white diamond pearl. Seems like it'd make a nice paint scheme, maybe with some blue trim. I'm new to all this RC stuff, but I'm learning moi rapido...thank you guys for all your tips.

[CT4]

sb930
I guess I will open a can of worms with this post but here goes. The TC you posted is for 3D and may not be the most suitable for scale flight. Most electric motors reach peak efficiency at about 80%.. If you are hovering at 3/4 stick your power is a bit low and your pitch a bit high. You will also have to change your pitch setup to match the TC. I hover at mid stick with about 5 degrees + pitch and my TC is 0 55 68.5 75 85. I have been trying to isolate a vibration problem so have been keeping the head speed to about 2150. But I have found that small changes to the TC /PC make a huge difference to the temp of the battery. With the above settings my battery after 9 mins flight is 120F, by upping the pitch curve 2% at hover ( to slow down head speed) it climbed to 135+F. So I have found that small changes can make a huge difference to the operating temps of the components. If you feel comfortable with this it may be worth setting up your TC/PC to hover at centre stick and have them set up for scale flight, after all I don't think you would want to try 3D in a 500E with the flybar that close to the fuselage. As I said this is what I have found out with my 500E and I have close to 100 flights on it now. I hope this is of some help.

[sb930]

is there any vibration in your tail assembely?

As mentioned in my original post... I don't get any tail vibration at all (not even with my low head spead). Here's a quick video of spin-up.

zrbTIKFoNQA

[sb930]

sb930
I guess I will open a can of worms with this post but here goes. The TC you posted is for 3D and may not be the most suitable for scale flight. Most electric motors reach peak efficiency at about 80%.. If you are hovering at 3/4 stick your power is a bit low and your pitch a bit high. You will also have to change your pitch setup to match the TC. I hover at mid stick with about 5 degrees + pitch and my TC is 0 55 68.5 75 85. I have been trying to isolate a vibration problem so have been keeping the head speed to about 2150. But I have found that small changes to the TC /PC make a huge difference to the temp of the battery. With the above settings my battery after 9 mins flight is 120F, by upping the pitch curve 2% at hover ( to slow down head speed) it climbed to 135+F. So I have found that small changes can make a huge difference to the operating temps of the components. If you feel comfortable with this it may be worth setting up your TC/PC to hover at centre stick and have them set up for scale flight, after all I don't think you would want to try 3D in a 500E with the flybar that close to the fuselage. As I said this is what I have found out with my 500E and I have close to 100 flights on it now. I hope this is of some help.

No worries... no can of worms.

As mentioned before, my disclaimer is that I've only been flying for about 1 week and know very little so my settings and advice should be taken with that in mind.

I don't have any vibration issues at all with the scale fuselage, so have been goofing around (and guessing) at some throttle and pitch curves. I did a couple flights yesterday afternoon and messed with the throttle and pitch curves by moving the throttle up a bit, but still not as much as you suggested last night.

One issue is that I setup the throttle & pitch to work with the pod & boom as I flew it for the first 4-5 days and then didn't really know where to go once installing the fuse. I'm just barely comfortable with basic forward flight, so planning to take the fuselage back off today or tomorrow so I can learn to fly better without fear of damaging it.

I may take your throttle suggestions and try a couple flights with the fuselage before removing it. Can you suggest a matching pitch curve?

I think with the way I have the fuselage installed I can swap between it and the pod/boom in under 30mins, so may find that I change it back and forth. I like flying the scale heli, but think I'll also be interested in some mild acrobatics. Because of this, it would be nice if you could create 2 different models in the DX7 (one for scale & one for pod/boom) and bind them both to the same receiver. I don't think this is possible, so maybe I'll create one normal mode that works OK for both setups and then create one idle up for scale and one idle up for pod/boom with appropriate throttle/pitch curves and expo.

Cheers

[sb930]

CT4,

I took your advice and upped the throttle curve. Spent a pack hovering around in the courtyard playing with throttle & pitch. Ended up with a throttle curve in normal mode of 0, 48, 70, 81.5, 90 and a pitch curve of 39, 54, 70, 86, 100. Heli starts to get light now at half-stick but still takes a little more to hover.

I do like the additional throttle and the higher head speed provides smoother take-offs and landings. My old throttle curve of 0,20,45,63,100 was a little abrupt and notchy between 3/4 stick and above which is were I had been hovering.

This feels MUCH better... thank you!

After sorting this out, I took it for the first real flights. It really looks nice in the air and flys well. Had planned to only do some hovering, but started doing some slow circuits of forward flight all in normal mode. The combination of altering the throttle curve and some forward flight brought ESC & motor temps back to 120-125F (I had seen temps as high as 180F after a full pack of hovering).

If these fuselages weren't in such a short supply, I'd keep flying it, but will instead pull it off until I become a better pilot!

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/500Flying.jpg

[CT4]

sb930
That is great news, there is nothing like seeing and flying a scale model, it just sort of looks .......right! You can set up your DX7 to have 2 model set ups. Have a look on Helifreak for set up vids on the DX7 there are some great ones here. I have a Dragonus pod & boom and the 500 also with a Dragonus.. You just copy all of your settings to a new memory and name it scale ,500 or what ever you like and set your scale flying TC/PC and anything else you like there. If you feel comfortable having 2 different stick settings them set up the scale to hover mid stick as you seen you will have much more control at mid stick because you have to move the stick further to get changes. You may notice that due weight the helicopter will sink in a left hand pirouette, you can programme the DX7 with a rudder / throttle mix to stop this. Set up you pod & boom settings for 3D i.e 3/4 stick hover. The problem with a lot of threads are they all use 3D settings and these are not the best for scale flight. I did not give you pitch curves as these depend on your head set up. With scale (or when you are learning) you do not need much negative pitch -1 at most and positive + 8-9. You can remove the negative pitch from your scale model by setting the first pitch curve point to give you -1 pitch ( my settings are 25 50 60 70 85, yours will be different) but as you see the 1/4 1/2 & 3/4 stick settings are on a very shallow curve, that way you will have a lot of control over your hover. The main thing is try and use throttle to get your hover right and try not to increase the pitch as this is what heats your battery up. By the way if you battery temp goes over 140F you are doing damage to your battery, also there is a real risk of explosion or fire so do be careful. I do not want to take over this thread with too much on TX settings, I am happy to help you with more if you PM me. Attached is a shot of my 500.
Bruce

[RChristopher]

" I do not want to take over this thread with too much..."

I concider this an open thread now, for the good of the community, so don't worry. As long as we are helping each other thats all that matters!!

Regards

Bob C.

[sb930]

VERY VERY NICE!

I, for one, would like to see the installation of your elevator servo.

Joe

Hi Joe,

Here are a couple pics along with a little info:

Servo is an HS-65MG and was placed inside the frame using 5.75mm long spacers cut from 5/32" aluminum tubing. They're held in place with some socket cap screws that were large enough diameter to thread through the servo mount (no little plastic nuts). I cut them long and added a drop of CA to make sure they stayed in place.

The brass spacer that's placed between the servo horn and ball was a piece from the HZ072 pare parts bag. There were two of these (I'm not really sure what they are for?) and I used the sorter of the two. The longer screw and nut also came from this bag.

I think this is about as far "inside" the frame as you can get and still have the ball & link line up in the middle. If you tried to offset it any further, the ball on the inside of the servo horn would start to interfere with the servo case. The end result is an elevator servo that only sticks out 10mm from the frame. This allowed me to get the mechanics back into the scale fuselage far enough to balance without adding any weight.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3469.jpg

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x256/pkoslowsky/IMG_3468.jpg

I'm back to pod & boom until I learn to fly:oops:

The conversion took about 45mins and I'm confident I could make the change from scale to pod & boom or vice versa in about 30mins next time.

Cheers

[Snoopy6]

Hi Joe,

This allowed me to get the mechanics back into the scale fuselage far enough to balance without adding any weight.


Nice solution. I mounted my mechanics far enough forward so as not to have to move the pitch servo inboard.. Mounting holes of the standoffs are directly over the front and rear skids.

I do have one question: how is that you moved the mechanics so far back and have no balance issue? The further back you move the mechanics the more tail heavy the fuse becomes. Mine is slightly tail heavy....I have no vibrations at all.

[sb930]

I do have one question: how is that you moved the mechanics so far back and have no balance issue? The further back you move the mechanics the more tail heavy the fuse becomes.

I think your logic may be flawed?

You're thinking of moving weight (the mecahnics) forward in the fuselage to add weight to the nose. My thinking is that you need to move the fuselage forward on the mechanics to get it's weight as far forward as posible.

Assume you balance the heli mechanics at the flybar (no fuselage) and it's perfectly level. Now if you install the fuselage with the mechanics forward, more of the fuselage weight is hanging behind the CG (flybar). In my case, I've tried to locate the mechanics as far back as possible which has the effect of sliding the fuselage forward so more of it is hanging in front of the CG (flybar).

An Example: Think of the mechanics like an old sliding doctors scale. If it's balanced and you slide the fuselage forward on the mechanics (my way), it will tip to the nose, if you slide the fuselage back on the mechanics (your way), it will tip towards the tail.

Another effect is that there is more room in the front to position the battery farther forward without bumping into the nose.

Maybe I'm the one barking up the wrong tree here, but the balance worked out well and the space between the auto-rotation bracket and the notch in the fusleage is about 5mm as stated in the instructions.

Cheers

[sb930]

I just read what I wrote, and not sure it it made much sense... here's maybe a better way of explaining.

You're trying to balace the "fuselage" by thinking of the mechanics as weight that you can move forward to keep it from being tail heavy.

My way of thinking is that you need to balace the "mechanics" by thinking of the scale fuselage as weight that needs to be as far forward as possible (on the mechancis) to keep it from being tail heavy.

[Snoopy6]

My way of thinking is that you need to balance the "mechanics" by thinking of the scale fuselage as weight that needs to be as far forward as possible (on the mechancis) to keep it from being tail heavy.

I understand and it does make a lot of sense after thinking about it. My biggest reason for not moving the fuselage "forward" was to keep from having to move the elevator servo so far inboard......may end up changing that down the road.

[CT4]

sb930
You are spot on with the fuselage logic.

[Gra55h0pper]

I think this is about as far "inside" the frame as you can get and still have the ball & link line up in the middle. If you tried to offset it any further, the ball on the inside of the servo horn would start to interfere with the servo case. The end result is an elevator servo that only sticks out 10mm from the frame. This allowed me to get the mechanics back into the scale fuselage far enough to balance without adding any weight.

Sb930 - Yes, I agree this is the way to go! I've done essentially the same thing when I built mine a couple of weeks ago. See earlier in this thread: http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=544227&postcount=77
I like your solution for the spacers! It's sure nice to have the CG such that no extra weight is necessary in the nose of the heli. :)

[Snoopy6]

I have taken it on myself to start a new social group, "Scale Heli Freaks" Hope it will give us scale builders a nice place to share our experiences in building scale models (especially the Hughes 500) and posting pics. Join in! :hug:

[BlackTitanium]

Thanks sb930,

That's a great solution! I'll have to rework my build.
This thread gets better all the time. :hug:

[sb930]

Sb930 - I've done essentially the same thing when I built mine a couple of weeks ago.

Gra55h0pper,

Yes, I remembered the picture of your tail servo install and followed your lead. Funny thing is that I didn't pay too much attention to your elevator installation in the same post, but it looks like I ended up with about the same solution just executed a little differently.

I pulled the fuselage off yesterday and already miss it!

Cheers

[BlackTitanium]

Thanks for the tip BlackTi-I may have to resort to that if I can't learn to restrain myself.:o Sharp bird btw! I'd hate to crash something so pretty. In my hands, it's only a matter of time. Seems all my heli's are destined to be cosmetically challenged.

Doh! I was wrong about the over slung fly bar.

Under slung:
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42062&stc=1&d=1205613991

Over Slung:
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42063&stc=1&d=1205613991

[CT4]

LOL I think if you have applied that much cyclic you are so far in the $%^* that the flybar is the last of your worries