13T Maiden Graphs & Pics

[cudaboy_71]

it was WINDY, FOGGY & COLD this morning. but, you know how it is with a new bird. here's the setup:

stock 500 CF
HS5245s
GY401/9650
6vdc electronics
500L 1600KV
13T
+/-12° collective
8.5° cyclic

Flight one:
Protek 5s 4000mah

a few false starts as i had the RPM sensor plugged in the wrong slot :arggg:
2280RPM at 0° idleup 100%
that puts motor efficiency at about 86%
no fancy flying here. the heli is so sluggish i'm afraid to take it inverted. a couple of punch outs and some lazy circuits.
http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34136&stc=1&d=1199050032

Flight two:
2 * Thunderpower 3s 2200mah for 6s 2200mah
2450RPM at 0° idleup 100%
that still works out to about 86% efficiency
a little more headspeed helps a lot. you can spot the full collective punchout at the 1:40 mark. performance feels about like i remember my 600E on the 600L motor on 12T helical with stock flybar and paddles.

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34137&stc=1&d=1199050032

the right gearing should make all the difference in the world. 18T on 5s and 15T on 6s should yield 2800 on the head. i'll defer judgement until i get them fitted and have a proper flight.

i'd also like to see a longer flybar and lighter paddles...that helped roll rate considerably on my 600E.

lastly, i seem to be having the 'tail kick' issue. even with a completely different gyro, it seems to have a mind of its own at times...just kicking 20-30°

off to tinker more :happyd

[skeppley]

How many poles did you put in for the motor?
I'm getting 2700-2800 RPM on my tach with the 6S and 13 tooth and 100% throttle.
I backed it down to 2500.

[cudaboy_71]

How many poles did you put in for the motor?
I'm getting 2700-2800 RPM on my tach with the 6S and 13 tooth and 100% throttle.
I backed it down to 2500.

6

it sure sounded like low to mid 2000s based on what my 600 sounds like....and, performance to match...i HOPE the headspeed is low based on how it performed.

what did you put?

[skeppley]

I didnt try the eagletree yet, just handheld tach, thats why I was wondering how many to put in.
Now it's icing and snowing out.., so I'll try it tomorrow :(
Thanks

[cudaboy_71]

i've scoured the web. but, can't find a definitive answer on pole count. so, i guessed 6 like the 600L/XL.

my buddy has a sky tach...but, too cold for him this morning :(

[th3tick]

Did you have to do anything special to get your brushless sensor to work? Mine reads dead 0s all the time, and I believe it's plugged into the right slot, and even with both sensor legs hooked up...

[cudaboy_71]

Did you have to do anything special to get your brushless sensor to work? Mine reads dead 0s all the time, and I believe it's plugged into the right slot, and even with both sensor legs hooked up...

i'm not 100%...but, i think you have to set it up in the software before using it.

aside from that, make sure it's in the right slot, and facing the right direction.

i don't know how you are attaching yours, but i find the best way is with a straight pin through the sensor wire and a motor wire.

[OICU812]

Best way to determine your hookup is to simply active the live menu and you can see paramters change. Then you will know if you have your temp, speed, etc sensors in check.

[th3tick]

I've got the software set with a 12.46 gear ratio (13T), and I also guessed 6 poles. I re-read that after setting it, and it came back with the same values.

I built a back-to-back male/female bullet connector, soldered the lead from the sensor on the side, and then plugged it into the red leg of the ESC/motor connection. The motor works, so my connector must also. It's the same setup I have on two other helis that works fine. The only thing different here is the v3 logger. I think I'm left with a bum sensor, or perhaps plug on the logger itself. It reads the other stuff just fine (although the PowerPanel seems to show doubled values for amperage - downloaded data is fine).

I guess I get to spend some time on the phone with EagleTree tomorrow. I hope they're open ;).

Thanks,
John

[cudaboy_71]

I built a back-to-back male/female bullet connector, soldered the lead from the sensor on the side, and then plugged it into the red leg of the ESC/motor connection

i did that *once*. too much trouble...that or i'm just lazy :smokin:

[th3tick]

Best way to determine your hookup is to simply active the live menu and you can see paramters change. Then you will know if you have your temp, speed, etc sensors in check.

I'm not sure what I can do with the live mode for RPM. In any case, even live mode shows 0 for a (very) brief bench spool-up.

I've re-done the calibration step, but we'll see what that does for the amps. Sadly, when you enable live mode, the PowerPanel just says USB Mode Active instead of anything useful for comparison.

John

[rotary65]

the right gearing should make all the difference in the world. 18T on 5s and 15T on 6s should yield 2800 on the head. i'll defer judgement until i get them fitted and have a proper flight.

JK is apparently using 15T on 5S with the TPXV2 3300 packs. Also, 15T is what Bert mentions for 5S in this post on TTF (http://www.thetrexforums.com/?topic=2892.msg30798#msg30798). Theoretically 16T should give ~2600 RPM with the stock 1900kv motor - but maybe reality is a bit different in this case. You might want to try 15T first and move up to 16 or 17 if you don't get what you're looking for. 18T may prove to be too high.

[Finless]

The motor is 1600KV not 1900.... However JK or Bert may have a 1900 as I know they were testing several different KV motors. I don't know but I am sure that is possible.

I bet we see some optional motors out at some point.
Dropping voltage and upping the pinion is not always the best way (or most efficient) to get 4S or 5S performance!

Bob

[rotary65]

The motor is 1600KV not 1900

Sorry - my mistake in the posting. :o

15T on 5S with 1600kv should give 2467 based on 90% efficiency. 16T would give 2631, 17T 2796 and 18T 2960. If JK is running 15T as reported, then he should only be getting ~2500 RPM with 280 mph tip speed. If he's running the 1900kv prototype with a 15T pinion on 5S, then he should be getting 2929 RPM.

From the pictures on his site, he has what looks like a production (black) 1600kv motor on his 5S 500 and one prototype motor (?) on his 6S 500.

Once the pinions are in our hands, we can get some data graphs showing actual headspeed and flight time for 5S. I order pinions and will be running 5S 4000 packs from MaxAmps. I also have 6S TPX2200 packs (2x3S). I'll post charts and others will as well.

[Finless]

I forgot to tach my head speed yesterday but will today.
I am running 13T 6S and 100% flat throttle curve in idle up 2 and I swear my head speed has to be close to 3K. But we will see later today.

Bob

[cudaboy_71]

this is the same vid i posted on the sticky thread. it flies alright. but, i'm definitely missing something here....my headspeed is about 400 shy of yours, bob. note the difference in your full collective climbout vs. mine. yours is a friggin' rocket.

99gaAxlmV1U

http://www.helifreak.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34261&stc=1&d=1199131407

[CatchmyCorsair]

Your min voltage looks REALLY low, so maybe your lipos aren't up to the task.

17V on a 6s setup is 2.83V per cell under load. :shock:

And just a note, your video says 3s2p, should be 6s1p.

EDIT: Your avg voltage is lower than this guy's TP prolite 6s setup: http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=55153

Granted he's running 12T.

[cudaboy_71]

heh...nice catch on the 3s2p....brain fart. now i gotta rerender/upload the video :mad:

i never even looked at that low voltage hit. looking at the voltage graph, there was a single spike about 30 seconds in (i havent synced it to the video...maybe that climbout). other than that, there were several lows arount 18.5 v.

i talked myself into this heli because i had 2 5s packs sitting on the shelf. i guess i just need to regear the thing and see how it does with those new packs.

[docjoe]

I maidened mine this past weekend too. I want to run a higher head speed. I'm running my Lepton 6s at 3k head speed and it really rocks. I want to get the same type of performance on my 500. I think a 15T pinion would be just right. May need to go a little higher just to have a little more room to push it.

[cudaboy_71]

did you happen to get a headspeed on yours w/ 6s on 13t? it's looking like my packs are no good for the 500 (even tho they're fine on the 450 still). i'm still scratching my head as to why my headspeed's down.

[cudaboy_71]

just tried one of my 6s 4900 packs and got 2650 on the head. so, i guess everyone was right....my 2200 packs are getting tired.

still wondering what kinda speed you got on your 'field report' bob. did you ever hook up a logger to that thing?

[Finless]

Dang it... I did it again... Ran out to the field yesterday and got in a few flights before the winds kicked up BUT once again I forgot to whip out the tach! Sorry I will do that for sure next time I fly.

Bob

[Finless]

OK I tached mine and Kevin's today.

Both Kevin and I are running same setup EXCEPT Kevin has the rotor tech blades and I have the original Aligns AND Kevin is running a set of K&B 30-50 sized tail blades which he cut down in length.

My heli
13T pinion 100% flat throttle curve brand new 2170 FP packs with 10 cycles
at 0 pitch on the ground was 2800
In hover dropped about 10rpm to 2790

Kevin's
13T pinion 100% flat throttle curve brand new 2500 FP Evo Lites with 15-20 cycles
at 0 pitch on the ground was 2800
In hover dropped about 10rpm to 2690

We think his head speed drop in hover was due to different blades and tail blades which are a little big for this heli... I can't wait for a set of K&B's made for this heli myself :)

So if you not close to these head speeds
1) make sure you DID program your ESC as it must learn the radio low and high throttle stick position.
2) Make sure your packs are good. Today a few more people showed up with 500s but used old 450 packs. It flew but you could tell head speed was 2400 or there abouts. Bottom line here is 2 3S packs must work well with each other. If one pack is weaker it will not allow the other pack to perform either! For you folks wanting the power then I suggest getting two 3S pack new and use them as a set so they are used an wear together evenly.

Bob

[skeppley]

Yeah, thats the same as I'm getting with brand new Kongpower 2200's.
Sorry I didnt hook up the eagletree yet, having so much fun flying it, I didnt want to have to take the time to muscle apart the motor connectors to get my rpm signal wire in there.
I'll get it soon, so can see what it's doing in the air.

[cudaboy_71]

well, i was encouraged by my 2650 w/ my 600 pack (that's 2650 @ 0° on the ground...i didnt even try to lift off with that pig strapped on)

thanks for some new-pack baselines.

i'm going to order me some pinions tomorrow and hopefully have some better numbers with the new 5s packs next week.