JR10x lipo replacement

[Sandy]

My battery and case have been discarded due to disintegration of the plastic and battery.. I want to use a spare 3s flight power lipo to replace it.. I have fashioned an adapter using a regular 3 pin female servo connector to a Deans male plug.. I know this will work cause I have done it before..

What is the correct pinout for powering up this puppy? I have burned up 6 fuses so far..

[DebianDog]

Your going to blow your radio, some people here already have. 3S lipo is too much voltage. Go with 3S LiIon. I got mine from Infina Models

http://infinamodels.com/

[Sandy]

Thanks dog.. The pop-in LiIon duralite pack is $130, so $50 is much more appealing. I will still need to know the pinout for the Infina battery

[DebianDog]

The Infina comes with a charge plug and radio plug. Nothing to wire :)

[th3tick]

Your going to blow your radio, some people here already have. 3S lipo is too much voltage. Go with 3S LiIon. I got mine from Infina Models

http://infinamodels.com/

While I'm flying the same pack you are here...

Aren't the LiIon and LiPo packs the same voltage?

John

[DavidH]

While I'm flying the same pack you are here...

Aren't the LiIon and LiPo packs the same voltage?

John

Yes a 3 S Lipo is 11.1 volts
A 3S Li-Ion is 11.1 volts.
Each cell is 3.7 volts

The transmitter doesn't care if it is Li-Po or Li-Ion battery as long as it is hooked up correctly.

The Duralite 10X battery uses 6 cells and is wired so that it is redundant. (2) 3S
The battery from Infina it does not say on the website how many cells it uses and how it is wired.
If it only uses 3 cells, I would say that has a lot to do with the cost difference

David

[Sandy]

Hi John

Yeh, there is a difference.. A 4 cell LIon is 7.4 volts and 4 cell lipo is 15.2 volts..

[Sandy]

Ops, wrong info..Looking at the wrong Lion pack (2s2p) 3.7 vs 3.8
Sandy

[DavidH]

Ops, wrong info..Looking at the wrong Lion pack (2s2p) 3.7 vs 3.8
Sandy


Each cell is 3.7 volts Li-Ion and Li-PO

Here is the description for a 2 cell Flight Power Li-PO battery
#EVO1200-2s1p: FLIGHTPOWER EVO25-1200 2S 7.4V 25C 30A CONTINUOUS, 50C 60 AMP BURSTS

Here is the description for a 2 cell Li-Ion pack
1450 mah - 2 cell li-ion -7.4 volt Flat

Li-Ion and Li-PO require a charger that will handle them. The difference in chemistry makes the charging requirements a little different between the two.

4S ( cell) LiPo is 14.8 volts
FLIGHTPOWER EVO25-1500 4S 14.8V

David

[th3tick]

So if it's just an over-voltage issue that everyone is concerned about, I'm tempted to charge my Infina Models LiIon to 12V and be done...

[DebianDog]

Yes a 3 S Lipo is 11.1 volts
A 3S Li-Ion is 11.1 volts.
Each cell is 3.7 volts

My 3S LiIon shows 12 volts fully charged. I would guess a 3S Lipoly would show 12.6V as a fuilly charged Lipoly cell is 4.2 volts. No?

With LiIon It depends how exactly it is made what voltage each cell has

Material Average Voltage
LiCoO2 3.7 V
LiMnO2 4.0 V
LiFePO4 3.6 V

[DavidH]

Yep my 3 cell Li-Ion fully charged 12.6 volts.

Those 3 cells you posted, I see Lithium, but I dont see the Ion designation

Here you go
http://members.aol.com/davthacker/lipolyapplication.htm

David

[Pinecone]

Link doesn't work.

The Ion is the last part of the chemical formula.

Lipos are 4.2 volts per cell fully charged, or 12.6 volts for 3S. The 3..7 volts is nominal.

A123 (LiFePO4) are 3.6 volts per cell fully charged, 3.3 volts per cell nominal. Or 10.8 volts fully charged for a 3S pack.

[DavidH]

This link doesn't work?
http://members.aol.com/davthacker/lipolyapplication.htm


Works when I click on it. It is from the Radical RC site. Dave Thacker is a fairly knowledgable person about different batteries since that is his business.


David

[DebianDog]

Yep my 3 cell Li-Ion fully charged 12.6 volts.
David

I will fully charge my Duralite and Infinia tonight and see what the difference is.

[DavidH]

Was thinking about this subject a few minutes ago. It has been about 18 months since I have heard about any fires due to batteries exploding and such when charging. It was IRCHA Jamboree 2006 is the last incidents I have heard about and there was two there in two days.
Anyway a thread like this is just a good reminder to make sure everyone knows and understands the nuiances with the different type of batteries they are using. I would say the two main types being used in the hobby at this time is Lithium-Ion cylinder type cells, and Lithium Polymer with the soft type pouch type cells. Both types are similar but different. Overcharging a Li-Po above 4.2 volts per cell and your most likely going to puff the pack or have a hellva of a fire. With the Li-Ion and charging them more than 4.2 volts per cell, mostly like the worse that is going to happen is that the cell gets vented and is useless.
So just learn about the type of batteries you use and treat them with respect and care for them according to specifications. I have been using Lithium based batteries in the hobby since 1998. Never really had any problems with care for them.

David

[Pinecone]

Don't believe that LiIon don't burn. Ask Finless and Fireup.

The link works now. Their site may have been down earlier.

The problems with LiPoly in Tx is:

1) If you leave the Tx on by accident, you can destroy the pack. And if it puffs in the Tx you may break the battery door. If it melts down, you lose your Tx also.

2) JR/Spektrum uses a linear voltage regulator fir the RF setion. Linear regulators deal with excess voltage as heat. The RF board works at 3.3 volts, so with a 8 cell NiMH or NiCd pack you are already dumping a lot of heat, bumping up to 12.6 volts means more. JR and Spektrum both report damaged or destroyed Tx due to Lipos. The link points out a 2S lipo pack is close to a 7 cell NiCd/NiMH, and a 3S is equal to a 10 cell. That is 2 more cells than the stock pack.

3) Safe charging means removing the pack, just in case your charger screws up. More work, and more wear and tear on the battery door.

4) They make 2600/2700 mAH NiMH Tx packs that will last as long and have none of the above problems. Only downside is if you don't fly all winter, you will have to charge your Tx.

LiIon solves much of the problems, but most are lower capacity than the available NiMH packs.

[Rodney]

These cells are 3.7 V. per cell. It is not a voltage issue that is causing the programing portion of your transmitter to blow the fuse. It it the pinout of the 10X battery system.
The Infina Ion battery does not come with a 10X battery sytem connector. It can be done with a pig tail as I have sold a few of them to 10X owners, I hve not made the connector myself because I dont have the 10X orthe battery to se how it needs to be setup.
When fully charged at a 1amp or less rate with a ION/lipo rated charger the Infina Ion battery will go up to 12.6 volts as well, yes David is correct as he usally does not post unless he knows he is right.
Pilots have been using this voltage in radios for a few years now with no issues.
With the 2.4 Spectrum system me and a few others tested the Infina Ions for a while with no issues before releasing them to the public.
The Infina Ion battery is a 3s2p 2000mah 11.1v setup.

[ghtracey]

These cells are 3.7 V. per cell. It is not a voltage issue that is causing the programing portion of your transmitter to blow the fuse. It it the pinout of the 10X battery system.
The Infina Ion battery does not come with a 10X battery sytem connector. It can be done with a pig tail as I have sold a few of them to 10X owners, I hve not made the connector myself because I dont have the 10X orthe battery to se how it needs to be setup.
When fully charged at a 1amp or less rate with a ION/lipo rated charger the Infina Ion battery will go up to 12.6 volts as well, yes David is correct as he usally does not post unless he knows he is right.
Pilots have been using this voltage in radios for a few years now with no issues.
With the 2.4 Spectrum system me and a few others tested the Infina Ions for a while with no issues before releasing them to the public.
The Infina Ion battery is a 3s2p 2000mah 11.1v setup.

That's odd, because I just read a post form the UK JR Tech stating pretty close to what Pinecone said. The RF section was traditionally fed B+. The newer stuff uses regs designed for 9.6V. The nominal voltage of a LiIon pack may be 11.1V, but the VMAX is still 12.6 on a full charge. That's 3 volts over the designed max. If you cook it, JR won't warranty it. You may have tested them "for a while" without a problem, but both JR and Spektrum have warned that using a 3S LiPO/LiIon cell could be the death of your radio, from experience. Are you willing to provide the warranty instead? I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but you are pushing a product that the OEM has stated could destroy a person's radio and I don't even see a disclaimer on your site.

[DavidH]

That's odd, because I just read a post form the UK JR Tech stating pretty close to what Pinecone said. The RF section was traditionally fed B+. The newer stuff uses regs designed for 9.6V. The nominal voltage of a LiIon pack may be 11.1V, but the VMAX is still 12.6 on a full charge. That's 3 volts over the designed max. If you cook it, JR won't warranty it. You may have tested them "for a while" without a problem, but both JR and Spektrum have warned that using a 3S LiPO/LiIon cell could be the death of your radio, from experience. Are you willing to provide the warranty instead? I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but you are pushing a product that the OEM has stated could destroy a person's radio and I don't even see a disclaimer on your site.


http://duralitebatteries.com/flight/batteries-ion.php#Transmitter

Duralite has been selling transmitter batteries for all the transmitters for 5 years plus now. They have 100's of there transmitter batteries in 10x's, 9C, 9Z, etc. etc. I have never heard of a transmitter having a problem when using 3S Lithium batteries. I used 3S Lithium batteries in my 9Z for several years. Yes Hobby Services said it would damage the radio and should not do it. I never had a problem. I know of a 100 or so pilots that use 3S lithum batteries. They never have had a problem.
As for warranty, if it concerns you. That is simple. You keep the stock battery and keep it charged. Then when you send the radio in, you just pop in the stock battery.
I have even sent my 9Z into Hobby Services for its annual service. It had the Duralite battery in the transmitter when I sent it.
Rodney has no reason to put a disclaimer on his website in my opinion.

The nominal voltage of a LiIon pack may be 11.1V, but the VMAX is still 12.6 on a full charge. That's 3 volts over the designed max

Don't know how you figured that.
nominal voltage is 9.6 volts on an 8 cell nicad/nimh transmitter battery. Most of them will show 11.2 to 11.5 fully charged.

nominal voltage on 3s lithium battery is 11.1. volts. Fully charged will show 12.4-12.6 volts.

11.1- 9.6= 1.5 volts difference
12.6- 11.2= 1.4 volts difference

I don't know of any manufactuers that are going to condone the use of aftermarket products with there products. Where it will work or not, they are not going to say it will.

David

[ghtracey]

Thanks for the correction on NiCd nominal voltage David. My bad. However, I've read stuff from JR/Spektrum that they had radios returned to them that HAD been damaged in this manner. Not a generic statement of "may cause" damage. It could be a scare tactic sure, but when you can buy a 2700mah NiMH for your Tx is it worth the risk?

[DavidH]

Well for me it was/is worth the risk. The Lithium will weight 6-8 ozs less than the nicad/nimh of the same capacity
You take 8 ozs off a transmitter and that is a major difference. I have had 9Z owners pick up my transmitter and ask why I took the battery out to charge. I would then take the transmitter and turn it on and show them there was a battery in it. They would immediately want to see what kind of battery.

David

[th3tick]

The other big advantage for me is I can charge it in 1 hour if I need to...

While merely anecdotal, has anyone seen a post or heard from anyone directly who've had a radio fried by this?

[plane]

I'm a planker recently turned shankboner and the planker guys have been running the lipo's in the 10x's for quite awhile now.

I got mine here:
http://www.maxamps.com/TXB25003-FU.htm

It will fit inside the stock battery case but it's tight. The price is right too.

[ddavison]

I also been using the Duralite li-ion trans pack in my 10x for almost two years now no problems, lighter weight, fly all day with out recharging, charges quickly when needed. Dave