Newbie -V-Bar or HeliCommand Rigid for AP?

[BluFly]

Hi there,

I am just in the research phase of getting into helis and am interested in a rig I can eventually use for AP.

My current thinking is to go for a Logo 600 but I intend to do many hours of SIM in Reflex XTR before committing to a model and getting some real-time XP.

I am interested in flybar-less rigs because I have read it is more stable, allows for longer flight and with less rigging crashes are, dare I say it, "cheaper".

My question is: What is a better option, vbar or helicommand "rigid"? I like the idea of the "auto pilot" that you get with helicommand for the potential benefit it would offer when shooting pics.

Any advice is most welcome.

Thanks,
B

[j_kookboy]

Helicommand for AP use because it has horizontal stabilization.

It works and works well.

Jesse

[BluFly]

Thanks j_kookboy. I guess for a beginner it has it's advantages as well...:lol:

Would going for a Logo 600 be overkill at this stage or a platform that I could grow into and use for ages do you think?

Thanks,
B

[j_kookboy]

What are you flying now and what type of AP work are you looking to get into ?

The 600 3D model with the V-bar on it and HC Rigid is an excellent AP rig.

Both light and efficient.

Minimal parts count, strong frames would probably hold up in a variety of mishaps compared to norm heli's.

The V-bar is tough as well. I've seen the aftermath of a one being put in inverted and spindle/grips/blades was all that needed to be replaced.

Good luck.

Lots of info in these threads. Maybe check over at runryder and search for user 'Torsten'. He has a lot of experience with Mikado's and the new Logo's.

Jesse

[BluFly]

Excellent, thanks for the pointers. :thumbup:

I don't currently have a heli which is why I'm on the forums and doing some time on th SIM. I want to make sure I make a safe and informed decision when I do eventually decide an a heli to buy.

As for the AP work, more of a hobby for now and if I'm any good at it we'll see where it takes me :)

Cheers,
B

[Wbird]

I have 2 Rex 600's that I use for AP. Great helis and cheap to repair. I am also planning to get a Logo 600 3D Flybarless this spring for AP. A friend has a couple with v-bar. They truly are a work of art. Crash costs on these birds (althought they have less parts count) is still expensive. His last incident was to the tune of over $1000.00 I believe. My 2 crashes on my rex's were under $350.00 each. If you are able to learn lots on the sim and don't crash often. Disipline yourself to fly on the cautious side. I would say go with the logo as it is a far superior machine. If frequent crashing is in your learning curve, the rex is going to be a good practice machine and you can upgrade to the logo later. One of the ones my friend is flying is stretched to 690's and flies as if it is weightless. He is working out a few bugs with the extra length but looking very promising for AP use. I haven't decided myself if I will use the V-Bar electronics or the Helicommand but it will be one of them.

Good Luck

[BluFly]

Thanks WBird. I went to a local model shop today (the only in my part of the world). The guys there recommended the TT Raptor but when I mentioned AP they had no advice. They did say that the Rex was a more skittish piece of kit so the Raptor was better to learn on. Still, I am “convinced” that going for good heli, spending loads of time on the SIM and not being a maverick (for a while) is the better option. However, I’ve read that that the number of pinion gears can tame the beast. Less or more teeth?

Thanks,
B

[bullaculla]

Smaller pinion = lower head speed.
but lower head speed = less stability.
but the 11t helical pinion (lowest gear ratio you can put on the 600) will still put you in the +1800rpm range depending on your throttle curves, which is still plenty stable for the big rex. Also with the smaller pinions, you will pull less amps, and things will run cooler.
:)

[Wbird]

Smaller pinion = lower head speed.
but lower head speed = less stability.
but the 11t helical pinion (lowest gear ratio you can put on the 600) will still put you in the +1800rpm range depending on your throttle curves, which is still plenty stable for the big rex. Also with the smaller pinions, you will pull less amps, and things will run cooler.
:)

Exactly as stated. I am running the 11 tooth helical on both machines and has great power and lots of lift. You can crank up the pitch once you learn. I would buy the rex if AP is in your future. Great and cheap to learn on and fully functional for beginner AP. I am moving on now that I have determined that I will not likely crash very often.

[dimon]

Does Helical gears lower the EFFICIENCY cause of more friction? What the plus of it?

[Wbird]

Helical gears are smoother running and quieter. Think of what is going on with straight cut. 170 times throught the revolution there is minor banging as the gears go into mesh and then slide against each other. With helical there is constantly one tooth meshed until the next one is in full mesh, no banging in and out. The new logo herringbone is even better because of no side load. And with logo quality these things are awesome, if you have ever heard one spool up you know that most of the noise is just blade noise and these things run silky smooth compared to the rex's.

Down fall to the align helical is the side load on the bearings as the gears try to push apart. I have had to replace the one way bearings because of the side load and it was very clear that there was more pressure on one end of the bearing but for the $10.00 worth of maintenance it is still worth it for me to run the helical. Motor bearings have been known to fail also. I have never had an issue with mine yet but it has to cause the bearings escess stress. I always lube my bearings with a light bearing oil and this may be the reason for my motors still running fine.

[wlfk]

Revolution models are selling the logo 600 for £200 at the minute.

K

[Aerial RC Photog]

Helical is the way to go,,,,
I have flat gears on everything I own curently, When I'm done going through my parts inventory, or atleast getting low, Everything I have is getting helical.
Wbird is correct with the Helical Gear in mesh concept,
Think about it, It's easier to slide a conventional stick shift car into gear , verses a Allison Truck Transmission, It's not entirely syncro gear bands, it's the helical aspect of gear in mesh. So basically Flat headed gears make more noise and work more with back lash than the Helical Gear in mesh theory, :thumbup:

[lrrps]

Helical gears are smoother running and quieter. Think of what is going on with straight cut. 170 times throught the revolution there is minor banging as the gears go into mesh and then slide against each other. With helical there is constantly one tooth meshed until the next one is in full mesh, no banging in and out. The new logo herringbone is even better because of no side load. And with logo quality these things are awesome, if you have ever heard one spool up you know that most of the noise is just blade noise and these things run silky smooth compared to the rex's.

Down fall to the align helical is the side load on the bearings as the gears try to push apart. I have had to replace the one way bearings because of the side load and it was very clear that there was more pressure on one end of the bearing but for the $10.00 worth of maintenance it is still worth it for me to run the helical. Motor bearings have been known to fail also. I have never had an issue with mine yet but it has to cause the bearings escess stress. I always lube my bearings with a light bearing oil and this may be the reason for my motors still running fine.


How do you lube the bearings, they are closed aren't they?

[psindrup]

I am interested in flybar-less rigs because I have read it is more stable, allows for longer flight and with less rigging crashes are, dare I say it, "cheaper".


Why would you want to go flybar-less on a AP ship?

It is all about stability, and both the heli-command and the flybar adds to stability.

Peter